Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Run & Bike Newbie : Turnover Optimisation Strategy
Quote | Reply
Hi all

A friend and I have just registered for a Run & Bike race this weekend (4 days from now). Both of us have 0 Run & Bike or MTB experience.
I was wondering what you guys would suggest as the best turnover strategy. What is the optimal distance / time of each run section for each of us given the below info?
Thank you very much

About the race
  • Total distance 42km
  • Road surface alternates between tarmac and trail, but not technical at all. Total positive elevation : +400m
  • The first runner has to run 7km to meet his partner with the bike. So no change-over during the first 7 km of the race

About us:
  • Same height
  • Same running ability (5kPB ~16.30, Half-marathon PB ~1.13 vs. 1.17)
  • 0 technical ability and MTB experience. Flying mounts during change-overs very unlikely. No time to practice these either in the next 3 days


It doesn't get easier, you just get slower
https://mymsracesironman.home.blog/
Quote Reply
Re: Run & Bike Newbie : Turnover Optimisation Strategy [Kampinou] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So..if I understand this correctly this event is going to be done like the an Indian horse relay with a bike being used in the place of the horse. One person will be running along side the bike and you will be able to change back and forth as many times as you want after 7km to optimize your team finish time. Is that correct?

Are you sure you don't have any run experience? 16:30 5K and 1:13-1:17 half marathon times are sub elite times. Were those certified race times at sanctioned races or just a guess at what you think you can do? If they are certified race times and you are in shape to doing those times on race day then read on.

Based on those times the 1:13 half marathoner could do the full 42K on your own in about 2:36 and the 1:17 halfer in about 2:42. Your goal should be to beat 2:36. If you can't beat that then you are better off just letting the faster of the two of you run the full way.

I wouldn't think that your transition time on the bike would matter too much. I would think that one person would drop the bike and start running while the other person gets on the bike and catches back up. Is that the case or are there other rules about the transition that might slow you down some if you do a lot of transitions? If the transition is a place where other teams will be passing you, then I guess that should be taken into consideration, but I would just take into consideration how fast your can run.

You both will be running half a marathon. So you should have a 1:13 and 1:17 run time each for a 2:30 finish time if you both run half the the race and only switch once in the middle. Again your goal is going to be to beat 2:30 by optimizing your rest on the bike with your intervals on the run. I would suggest trading about every 7:00 minutes. Do it by time and not by distance so that your faster runner will get you further at the faster pace before you trade. Don't run at the pace you can sustain for 7 minutes though. You are going to be running about a half marathon and even with the rest breaks on the bike you are not going to be able to maintain your pace all the way to the end if you are going much faster than your half marathon pace. You will want to run just over your lactate threshold pace (about a 10mile pace). That should be about a 5:40 pace or about a one minute a mile slower than your one mile pace. If you are able to do 5:40 min/mile pace for 7 minutes with equal rest to running time that will get you down to a 2:28:30. So something like this.

1.13 Halfer: 7K (aprox. 25 mins)
1.17 Halfer: 5k (aprox. 17:30 mins)
1.13 Halfer: 2K (aprox. 7mins)
1.17 Halfer: 2K (aprox. 7mins)
1.13 Halfer:2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.17 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.13 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.17 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.13 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.17 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.13 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.17 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.13 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.17 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.13 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.17 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
1.13 Halfer: 2K(aprox. 7mins)
42k (aprox 2:27:30, yes it cut another minute due to using approximate times, but the 1.13 halfer is running 4k further than the 1.17 halfer so it should be slightly faster than an even split).

Again go out slow. Having the longer first interval and then keeping the pace at the same pace on the shorter intervals will help with this.
Last edited by: curtish26: May 2, 23 13:31
Quote Reply
Re: Run & Bike Newbie : Turnover Optimisation Strategy [curtish26] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Curtish

Thank you very much for the detailed answer, super interesting.

It is indeed a race where you transition from running to riding, similar to Indian horse relay (although this is the first time I’ve heard about Indian horse relay😉). 2 racers with 1 bike to share. I have just found a video demonstrating how you can transition : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fycFdD9njZA The transition can happen wherever you want on the course, whenever you want to and how many times you want to. This type of races is fairly popular in France. I was surprised because I coulnd't find any ST thread mentioning this type of multisport racing, so I suppose it is not very common in the US.


Your pacing strategy sounds pretty good. We’ll aim for 10 mile pace for 7mn each as you suggest I think, so change every 2k. From some youtube videos I found last night, it looks like the fastest guys tend to transition even more frequently, like every 1 or 1.5 minutes. But that requires flying mount/ dismount skills.

Just to clarify, my partner and I have extensive running experience and those times were set on sanctioned courses. Last year, my partner ran 2h33 at the Valencia marathon and I ran 2h45 at the Berlin marathon. What I meant is that we have 0 experience in this type of events with a bike and have never practiced the transition / flying mounts. We had in mind that sub 2h30mn was probably achievable.

I’ll let you know how we go and what strategy others choose.
Thank you again for your detailed answer

It doesn't get easier, you just get slower
https://mymsracesironman.home.blog/
Last edited by: Kampinou: May 3, 23 0:03
Quote Reply
Re: Run & Bike Newbie : Turnover Optimisation Strategy [Kampinou] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No, these type of races are not very popular in the USA. Anything multisport race that is not a sprint triathlon, Olympic triathlon, 70.3 Triathlon, or 140.6 triathlon is not popular. People like to have head-to-head competition and so people choose the triathlons because that is where the most competition is. You are going to be very competitive in this event. I look forward to hearing how it goes.
Last edited by: curtish26: May 3, 23 14:22
Quote Reply
Re: Run & Bike Newbie : Turnover Optimisation Strategy [curtish26] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quick run & bike race recap from this weekend
  • It was really fun. Racing as a duo always is (I love “Swimruns”), even more when your partner is on the bike cheering you on. And the race is super intense, going flat out from the gun, I loved it
  • We crossed the line in 2h26mn for the 42km. Second place overall, 1mn behind the winners. The course was more technical than anticipated (see my friend at the back of the picture pushing the bike up stairs in the village), I reckon we would have saved a couple of minutes on a flat asphalt course
  • We transitioned ~60 times, running ~2mn each. Much shorter than anticipated, but the winners who passed us at the hallway mark were using this strategy. We ran all of our relays sub 3’30mn/km pace (for reference, 3’30mn/km = 5’40mn/mile pace)

If other STers race run&bike in the future, I would even advise to rotate every minute or so. I definitely recommed it, it was a fun experience

link to our strava activities:
https://www.strava.com/activities/9020344307
https://www.strava.com/activities/9019734314




Last edited by: Kampinou: May 9, 23 1:57
Quote Reply