Kestral Talon. I believe this is mainly due to the seatpost design that allows you to create a steeper angle?

Works great for me, I love my Talon.



Chris

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Chris
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“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,

Blue, Kestrel, and Javelin have made attempts at it.

A lot of people have managed to do both with Giant TCR's and Treks.

Are people going with Giant because of the compact geometry? Is compact geometry the key to a versatile bike or is there something else I should look for?

I like my Felt F35. I run it with clipons and use it for everything. Seems to work out great - I usually have the fastest bike split, and it is very comfortable.

I've got a Javelin Arcole set up fairly steep, and I've been riding it since about August 2003. I was a little bit concerned when I got it a couple of years ago about the handling, but it rides great. I'd certainly give that one a look. They also have one called the Salento that they bill as a multi-use bike. The same bike as the Arcole is the Barolo with a carbon rear end and fancy paint job.

Yes, I'm sponsored by those guys so I'm a little bit biased, but I stuck with them because I'm very satisfied with fit and ride of the Arcole for non-drafting races.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

The Scott CR1 is currenrly pulling dual duties in the TdF.

You can put clip-on aero bars on pretty much ANY road bike, and ride Tris with it. And probably even ride them pretty well. You will likely have to use the SLAM position to be most effective, not that there's anything wrong with that. Lots of folks ride very fast this way.

(cue discussion about how it seems the majority of riders in any tri have crappy positions & don't even use their aero bars, and/or how they are loaded down like pack mules)

If you want a road bike that you can also ride *steep* like a Tri bike, then a Soloist should probably top your list (...drink the Kool Aid - it's so delicious ;-)

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float , hammer , and jog

I dont think compact geometry in general has anything to do with it - the giant OCRs have compact geometry and you wouldnt want to put aerobars on it.

Here is my take on road bikes as tri bikes: I'll attempt to illustrate my points with the (published) frame geometry measurements of the Soloist versus the Specialized Roubaix (which is essentially the same as the Giant OCR composite) Both the OCR and the Specialized are more enthusiast/touring type bikes as opposed to outright race bikes like the Soloist. However, I am using this to bring to light the differences that can occur between different so called compact frame designs.

1. Shorter head tube - for a given frame size, the soloist has a 15-35mm shorter head tube with the largest difference at the larger sizes. A tall headtube more often than not makes it very difficult to get in a good aeroposition particularly if you simply add clip-ons to your existing road bars

2. Short chainstay (or rear center) - for a given frame size, the soloist has a shorter rear center. However, this is offset slightly by the fact that cervelo measures rear center while almost everyone else measures wheelbase and chainstay length. However, if you compare wheelbases (front center + rear center for the soloist) you see that the soloist has a shorter overall wheelbase (between 20-35mm) I think the idea here is to maintain a similar weight distribution no matter what effective seat angle you are riding by keeping the rear wheel tucked underneath you as much as possible such that when you transfer weight to the front by tucking onto aerobars, you havent changed the weight distribution between front and rear wheels much because the "moment arm" between your CofG and the rear wheel hasnt changed as much as if your rear wheel is trailing significantly behind you. This has effects on handling (cornering) and straightline stability.

3. Shorter Top tube for a given seat tube - for a given frame size, the soloist has a shorter top tube. This is partially a function of the shorter head tube but having the shorter top tube means you are less likely to be stretched out (again assuming you were to simply add clip ons to your existing road bar and stem). Your position on a bike is a function of the reach which is a function of the top tube and the stem. So you can fix this on a bike with a longer top tube but then you would be using a stem that may be too long or too short for optimal handling. This is one of the major drawbacks of building bikes with "t-shirt" sizing and using seatpost and stem lengths to fit the frame to the rider.

Again this is a quick and dirty look at two very different frames both using "compact" frame design. I wasnt able to find geometry specs for Giant (they may not publish them).

These points are mimicked in some degree if you look at a Kestrel Talon which is another frame mentioned and used quite successfully in road/tri configurations. That said, currently I am using a Kuota Kharma in a tri configuration with a SSM Azoto tri saddle, Thomson zero setback post, and Oval Concepts A910 carbon clip ons. My first race on it will be in two weeks so we'll see how it feels. My only other experience was with a Mountainbike so this should be considerably faster ;)

That said, you should be able to walk into your local fitter and discuss what you would like to do with your bike and if they are at all competetent they should be able to accomodate your need for a one-bike-for all racing that you want to do...

As for specific bike suggestions here are a few:
1. Soloist (obviously)
2. Giant TCR (Michellie Jones used a TCR composite for long course racing for years but she was on a smaller frame than she would be on for road racing)
3. Kestrel Talon
4. Guru Flite - compact geometry...somewhat similar published measurements to the Soloist it has a slightly longer head tube I think...
5. Kuota Kharma - its what Im using but YMMV
6. Heres one for out in left field - how about a Cervelo Dual with STi and drop bars? I always wondered if this would work since the Dual has a 75 and 78 deg seat angle...You could add a fizik arione and you should be able to get the seat angle back to at least 74 deg if not 73...I'm not sure how it would handle...I guess it would depend on how much road versus tri/TT you would be doing...

Thanks for the details Jekyll. What surprises me is that none of the other companies are trying to come up with something similar to the Soloist.

Jekyll-
Just curious why you say you wouldn't want to put aerobars on a giant OCR....is it a safety issue or something else? I'm wondering b/c I've got an OCR2 and am planning on using it (w/ clip ons) in some tris late this summer. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

Perhaps Herbert might chime in...but why can't you built a custom Litespeed Blade in a compact raod geo?

Internal cabling

Aero seat post

Aero tubing

I'd be shocked if ABG didn't start doing this. My gosh, IMO it would blow away the Soloist...although I am a very happy Soloist rider.

why get a soloist? try a p2. it works great, it handles great, it goes very, very fast.

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Where would you want to swim ?

kieran doe went something like 2.04 on a soloist for bike leg at tauranga half ironman.



i'm considering getting a soloist as well. what do people think about getting thumbend shifters with requisite aerobars on soloist versus sti with clipons?

For clarity's sake, that's a P2K, which replaced the P2 in the Cervelo line.

The P2 essentially established (or at least refined) the new template for aero-framed tri bikes in around 1998-99. It had an extended aero seat tube, rear wheel cutout, horizontal drop-outs, and even a "shark fin" extending the aero down tube beyond the bottom bracket, further shielding the wheel.

Ryno:

There is nothing to say that you cant put clip-ons on an OCR, hell theres a recent discussion about putting clipons on a mountain bike. However, that said, since aloys was originally asking about road bikes that would be "good" choices for road bikes, the OCR (and its specialized cousin) would not be good choices for the reasons stated above.

The OCR line of bikes has a more relaxed riding position. Due to its longer head tube and the stems that are typically shipped with the bike, the rider tends to ride in a more upright position. It would be difficult to ride in a low aero position with the longer headtube because you wouldnt be able to get the front end low enough without resorting to a negative rise stem or something like a look ergostem. This can have an effect on handling and stability not to mention comfort.

Theres nothing to say that you cant do it, Try it and find out if you like it...

As an aside:

Tom D. has written on this topic here: http://www.xtri.com/article.asp?id=126

Thanks for posting that link. I remember that article when I was just getting started in tris and put a forward seatpost and clip-ons on my road bike. But that article was written in 2000, before the "slam" position really came about. I think that may be a good alternative. I believe it was Tom who put shorty bars on his R2.5 for Nice last year. A question I've always had about that was is it fair to say he was successfull at that because it was a Cervelo with the features (short chain stay, shorter head tube, etc.) that are mentioned above? Or would another road bike benefit from the newer, short bars in a similar manner? I have a compact road bike with a fairly short head tube that I've put clip-ons that I created from a pair of Jammer clamps and pads, with the extensions from a pair of Aerolites. This was just to see how it would ride, since I race on a 78 degree, 650c wheeled tri bike. From the rides I've done on it, I've noticed none of the issues that Tom mentioned in his article. I will agree that when I had my first setup with the Profile forward seat post and a pair of Syntace C2s on, I was pretty unstable. But that was also on an older Giant CFR frame which did have the longer head tube. I'm still learning everyday from this forum so any input would be appreciated.

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- Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
P. J. O'Rourke

yes, yes, i know, thanks for the correction.

i just get lazy about typing the k in p2k.

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Where would you want to swim ?

"the giant OCRs have compact geometry and you wouldnt want to put aerobars on it. "

Good thing you never told that one to my wife. She did her first two years of sprint tris on an OCR with clip-ons and had numerous AG wins and podiums.

I agree in theory the TCR is better choice due to a slightly different geometry, but you shouldn't sell the OCR short.

I ran a Giant TCR with a neutral set back seat post and the seat forward to give a 75/76 degree effective seat angle which is about the same as the Soloist with the seat post forward. The times I did on that bike are comparable at some local races to my P2K, so it is a viable option.

You can set up any road bike into a 75/76 "multi-sport" position but it seems to work very well with compact frames. I wouldn't go any further forward than this other wise it has quite a negative effect on bike handling characteristics. I tried a Profile forward seat post on the TCR and although it was fine on a strait line, it felt awful in corners.

Hard to beat the Soloist. It's probably your best option but I'd get a second seat post with saddle to drop in/out rather than the hassle of flipping the seat around.

Maybe I am missing something, but the Specialized Allez seems pretty damn close to the Soloist:

Soloist (58) Allez (58)

STA 73 73

HTA 73 73.5

BB Drop 68 ?

TT 58 58.2

HT 180 190

SO 781 798

Stack 580 ?

Reach 403 ?

Softride - unless for some reason you want the double-diamond design. And the only reason I can see where you would need the double-diamond is if road racing in UCI or USCF is in your future.

So is there a real difference between the Allez and the Soloist? Allez was one of the bikes I was looking at.

I just rode home my newly built Allez today on its first ride. I sold my Cervelo Dual to get it. I suppose i would rather have had a Soloist, just could not afford it. I got the Allez frame on ebay for a little more than i would pay for a pair of running shoes. I loved my Dual - just did not need a tri bike anymore. Cervelo builds a very nice bike.

Jekyll-
thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

Ryno