I'm a pretty everyday "Joe". I signed up for the Wis IM after only a sprint and an oly... and I've never riden a century or run a marathon (although I've done some long distance open water swimming). Though I'll have done another two 1/2 IMs and a sprint and an oly by the time my IM comes around, I still consider signing up for the IM to be a stretch goal. I'm 49, and my goal time will be 13 or 14 hrs. So, I consider myself pretty close to, if not square within, the group of people you wish wouldn't do IMs. I'm as concerned right now getting to the starting line as I'll be with getting to the finish line (i.e. I hope I don't go down in flames to an injury while training).

I'm not angry or anything, I just don't know why you want the IM event to be so elitist. I guess in my opinion, the race is open for anyone who thinks thay can do it. When/if I finish with my 13:30 time, will I consider myself in the same class as someone with a more impressive time? No. Will I brag about being an ironman? Not without mentioning that I finished at the back of the pack. Will I be proud of my accomplishment? Damn straight!

I'd have no problem whatsoever if USAT sponsored more tris that were only available to people who'd qualified while racing "open" events.

I dont really know where to start with your apparent rant and the cheapening of the experience..........I suppose I should ask for whom was it cheapened.

Let me tell you how I got to the point where my second tri was an IM.

For I guess about 10+ years I smoked a pack of Cigs a day, drank a lot, daily for a long period of time but not to get slaughtered but I was certainly never without beer in the fridge.

In 2000 I met a friend who was running the chicago marathon, we met in May. In June I decided if she could do it I could so I went on my first run after 10 years of smoking and drinking. My guess is it lasted may be a mile or 2 and it was pretty slow. (I did bust out a 6.36 mile on a treadmill and nearly died though but that was for a bet).

So I did not tell anyone and signed up, got the Hal Higdon training program e-mailed to me every day, followed it religiously, ran the Chicago half marathon in 1.52 in September and ran the Chicago marathon in Oct in 3.52 and change very easily.

My first marathon.

I carried on running over the winter and some other friends were doing some sprint tri's. Well I decided I wanted to do an Oly. I knew the run was no problem my 10k PR after running for about 10 months was 42 minutes. I knew that although I'd not been in a pool in 10 years that I could still swim and how hard could it possibly be to ride 25 miles.

So I signed up for Mrs T's.

I ran a half marathon June 9th 01 in 1.35, so I went from zero to 1.35 in a year. I was diagnosed a week later with a heart condition that required a procedure to correct and that was scheduled for Jul 25th. I did nothing from June to July but they announced IMWI in this time frame and I signed up, I also signed up for IMUT, all the time not being allowed to train because of the health problem.

Surgery (?) was July 25th, I took 10 days off, then swam twice, ride 3-4 times, ran once and did Mrs T's in August in 2.36 after I think 2+ months of no training.

I then ran the last 13 of the Chicago marathon, Doc's would not let me run the entire thing as I had lost to much time due to illness.

I ran the Columbus half with another guy from here that Oct as well in 1.33-34 two months after the procedure and basically took the rest of the year ez until I started training for the IM in Jan.

From Jan to June I busted my ass to get ready for IMUT.

I set a half marathon PR of 1.25, got my first ever hardware in a race finishing 3rd in my AG and before the race, swam, biked and ran and trained well for the entire 6 months.

June rolled round, went to provo and thats well documented, the race was a disaster. Very disappointing.

Took the rest of June off and started again for WI. This is where the only mistakes I feel I made occured.

My third tri was an Oly, time 2.26, swim 23 flat a 13 minute improvement on the year before, the run and bike remained basically the same as I had done a pretty hard week in the run up and no taper.

Trained until WI and learnt a lot of lessons and those were:

1) should have been better prepared for the mass swim

2) should have gone harder on the bike and been less of a P**sy

3) should have focused more on the run

What I could do on paper and what happened in WI were 2 different things. When I finished I was disappointed, I dont think it was due to lack of preparation it was due more to lack of mental fortitude and probably experience.

In hind sight now, it was fine, I'll take it for what it was. I should not have signed up for and tried to train for 2 IM's, the year was simply to long and by the time WI came round I'd lost a lot of interest in trying to keep going week after week.

In the race its self I quit and it was honestly the strangest thing, I cant explain it, I dont think until you've been there you can talk about it but at mile 20 I was just like "F**k it!" and "I know I can finish, why am I running?" so I stopped, almost literally.

I definitely lost it about mile 20 and I think it was largely nutritional.

I'm going to do another IM this year, just the one, I'm going to approach it differently and work on my 2 weaknesses, my state of mind and my bike.

I'll do this once I get better but I have no doubt that if I had my druthers I'd do it again. I'd have finished Utah and probably better than I finished WI.

I will however not be signing up for early season IM's in future but thats a personal preference because I cant sustain the focus for 9+ months.

I dont think I cheapened the experience for anyone, I learnt an awful lot in my first 2 years in this sport. I think I made a hell of an improvement and I dont think I am close to where I can get in any of the sports.

I have no idea why I might have cheapened someone elses race, because I quit running at mile 20? all sorts of strange things happen in an IM to the most experienced athletes you cant judge my actions by my inexperience, its happened to plenty of better people than I.

I've had a good run, a good time, I've met many very cool people and I would rank IMWI as one of the coolest experiences of my life, not the race and finishing but the total experience, the people I met along the way, the training, the week in Madison.......

Dont knock it until you've tried it. I made some mistakes but I gave it a shot, its the only way to learn and nothing about the distance intimidated me, but thats probably because I'm an idiot.

Thats my 2 cents.

Andrew (IM finish time 13.35, it was slow but someone has to be)

I dont know if I'm the guy you are talking about but I have only one triathlon done (that's a couple of years ago!) and planning to do and Ironman this year(september). I understand your point well but there is always more than what you see. I've already done a couple of marathons and ultras(70 km and 100 km). My first race was a marathon, my second the 100 k. I've been training all my life, mostly running and thai boxing so i'm never out of shape. For the Ironman, I've started training(specificaly for the IM) 4 months ago and there are 4 more left so I have no doubt I will be ready for it. Actually I am pretty sure I could finish it right now. Also, I have a couple of events plan before my IM.

Now It's true that it's easier to complete a sprint than an IM but I think none of the triathlon are more "elite" in a sense that there are Olympic distance elite and IM elite. Usually, a person would compete in shorter distance first since we are usualy faster when we are young (more fasttwitch) and move progressively to longer distance as age and endurance increases. I'm not a fast person and am good at long events so I like to choose a distance that will challenge me in my endurance. I choose distance over time challenge.

Now to know if your ready for it will not be mine to answer since I have'nt done it yet...I'll tell you in september ;)

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Richard

"You're only young once, but you can be immature forever" - Larry Andersen

Great story Andrew! Good luck on your journey Pat. We never know how far we can go until we try it!

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Richard

"You're only young once, but you can be immature forever" - Larry Andersen

I will be doing my first Ironman this year in Brazil. I have been doing triathlons on and off since 1988. Ironman never really excited me into wanting to do it. I am and have been extremely happy with my life and didn't feel like I was missing out by not doing it. The reason I finally decided to do it was because --- well my wife was doing it and the fact that almost all my friends have done at least one.

IMO if you want to race at an Ironman it takes years of training. If you want to just complete an Ironman then a first year triathlete could do it. IMO though many of those attempting it in the first year will end up with some sort of injury down the road. Most of the triathletes I know who have done an Ironman early on have had injuries soon after. The ones I know have had shoulder problems, knee problems and hip problems.

I did Ironman Florida last year. It was my first triathlon and my first marathon. Furthermore, I had no cycling experience before I got a bike in May 2002. The longest I had ever swam continously was a half-mile before I signed up. The only competative experience I had in any discipline was running track and cross-country in high school. So this makes me the exact person that your comments are directed at.

I didn't sign up for IMFLA because I wanted to be a triathlete, rather I am becoming one because I found so much enjoyment while training for IMFLA. I had no idea prior to November 2001 that there even where any more Ironman races than Hawaii. And I had no idea prior to May 2002 that IMFLA wasn't the only one in north america, so I jumped at the chance to do it and signed up. Had I known what I know today, maybe I would have waited, but I don't regret the decision.

I don't understand how anyone could feel the race is "cheapened" by what someone else does. Covering 140.6 miles over land and sea by your own power is an incredible accomplishment, and a very personal accomplishment. The only thing I have to make sure of is that I race safely, and don't get in the way of anyone else. That takes about 30 minutes of reading the rules that are posted, and practicing common sense. I worked every bit as hard as most people out there that day. Besides following ettiquette and rules, what experience is necessary? Swimming, riding a bike, and running is not rocket science. I gather from the history, that the first people doing the Ironman had never done a triathlon before. Furthermore, what does it matter if the Ironman is the "in" thing, what does that change for you?

I realize you weren't trying to be abrasive with your post, but you have hit on some things that I have seen written here by others recently.

I agree 100% that everyone should follow the rules, and that everyone should follow ettiquette. I won't argue with anyone on these issues, but some of these other arguments are quite discouraging to someone like me who is new to the sport.

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

I have one thing to say that probably was not clear.

Twice in the last three years I have been diagnosed with very serious illnesses, not colds, or flu's but to quote a friend "untreated it could kill your british ass dead" types of illnesses.

I am not going to sit back and not do it because I might cheapen the experience for someone else. Just like the way people are bitching about the TNT'ers, F**kem if they dont like the fact I entered, or the fact that I finished or the fact that I was slow.

Why dont people worry about themselves and how they live their lives instead or worrying about how I am living mine. If by the time this is all said and done I am not allowed to do another IM I can always say I did it and I finished and if I'd waited to do it on your time frame I could have been dead or not allowed to......

Sorry thinking about this has me pissed off. I trained, I finished and I hope to do better next time but until you've had my experiences you are not in a position to comment on whether I should or should not have done it.

Andrew

"Why dont people worry about themselves and how they live their lives instead or worrying about how I am living mine. If by the time this is all said and done I am not allowed to do another IM I can always say I did it and I finished and if I'd waited to do it on your time frame I could have been dead or not allowed to...... "

Live and let live Andrew - you are right on!

I do think that with the wait and sell out of events, and the leadership position that WTC and IMNA hold, it would be prudent for them to require a completed half IM prior to competing in an IM. No sweat to me if someone wnat to compete without experience, but I think the disaster and potential further disaster at Utah made the case for this in a single morning.

Andrew,

Nothing personal - you obviously have been through a lot, and you are a very talented athlete if your first Oly race was a 2:36 under the constraints you described. The point of my post (is a post a "rant" when people disagree with it?) is that I don't understand what I perceive to be a "rush" by many people to complete the ironman. In my opinion, it should be something that is worked up to - over a period of time longer than many I hear of nowadays. You said you had friends who were doing "sprint tris" when you decided to do an Oly. Why didn't you do a sprint tri first? Then, before that race actually occurred, you signed up for 2 IM races. You had never done even one triathlon at that point. So, I'm just curious, what was the rush to do an IM? Would it not have been just as rewarding an accomplishment after a longer buildup of experience? I'm not bashing anyone - I just don't understand why people are in such a hurry. I also don't understand why people think the Ironman has to be something that anyone can achieve - there's nothing wrong with an event being something that not everyone can do - that's what makes it the achievement it is.

I disagree about Utah, the guy that died had completed several IM's and it was an unfortunate accident, what I thought was ridiculous was What The F**k were some of them thinking when they got in the water to start with?

The waves at Utah did not freak me at all I was fine, when I got out I saw people on their way to Nevada. Some people needed to take a look at what was going on and make the choice not to get in. You did not need to have done an IM to know whether you could deal with the conditions that day, that was pure common sense.

Quite frankly, if I'd waited I could be dead, granted anyone could get run over but none the less it was one thing that was pointed out to me by my physicians (sp?)

What was the rush? no rush really, I went from zero to a 1.35 half in a year, I went from a 2.36 to a 2.26 Oly tri in a year.

How long did I need to wait. I think it's pretty realistic for me to break 2.10 for an Oly and sooner rather than later so should I have waited until I did that?

I think I can break 1.15 for a half marathon sooner rather than later, say in the next 18 months, should I have waited that long?

I agree not everyone can do an IM nor should be able to but I did and I can so why should I not?

Would it be more rewarding to wait and take longer? No not really, I'll still break 2.10, and 1.15, should I slow down so that when I do get there I can savor it a little more? or should I try and get to 1.10 and 2.00 flat?

I can do it, I could have done it as my first tri, I could do it this year. So long as I get faster or commit and give it my best shot I'm not denying anyone anything. I paid my money, I got my T-Shirt and I can say I did it just like the guy that finished in 8.00, we both went the same distance, he just did it 5.5 hours faster than me and even if I waited another 15 years I would not be able to do that so why wait?

Andrew,



Just saw your second post - your brush(es) with illness help me better understand your desire to do IM sooner rather than later.



As for my comment about "cheapening" the Ironman experience, allow me to explain. My comment is an outgrowth out of several other threads over the last few days regarding TNT and people doing triathlons as "events" rather than "races". People can do whatever they want, regardless of my opinion - but I like the competetive aspect of triathlon. I think that is the root of the sport. As a decently-fit triathlete preparing for some Oly races, I am fit enough to go out tomorrow and complete a 2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, and 26.2 mile run in under 17 hours - and thus I could be an "Ironman". But that's not a title I would want unless and until I could complete the event, and do so with a better result, earned with training and experience in numerous triathlons, built up over a period of time. Based on long distance events I have done, I would set 12 hours as my goal time in my first ironman. The reason I said the experience could be "cheapened" is that my vision of ironman (and what it means to finish) is obviously much different from someone doing the ironman as one of their first few races, after being relatively out-of-shape, who then calls themself "ironman" after barely crawling across the line at 16:59:59 because they took on a grueling, elite (yes, elite) event way, way before they should have. I think it's something that should be earned over a longer timeframe with significant experience.

Ok, heres the deal.

My first IM was 13.35.

Could haves, would haves, should haves aside I went 2.26 in an Oly. I was in 11-12 hour shape.

That was after 12 months in the sport.

Should I have waited until I was in 10 hour shape?

I did not go 11 hours but that was for the reasons cited, not making excuses I took on to much last year and at mile 20 in WI it all went to hell, we all learn by experience.

I am positive I can get close if not break the 11 hour barrier in my next IM. I'm wiser and will be fitter by the time I take it on. I could wait but time waits for no man.............no one, you can wait and get hit by a bus, dont do it is my advice.

Illnesses were not a factor in my choice to do an IM. My decision to do an IM was because I can and I do not want to look back on anything and go "if only I had........" its no way to live.

I could wait until I'm older to run a marathon, ride a century, do a parachute jump whatever........

There is something to be said for living life in the present and not living it preparing for a day that may never come.

I don't think 13:35 is such a bad result. You probably have the talent to go faster, but still that is certainly not a cheap time. Way to go!

It was not good but I think only people that have done IM's can appreciate just how goofy the day can turn out.

I just got the video of Moo, the swim start was amazing, I'm surprized that more people dont freak, it's scary to watch.

The bike was really nice, I was so scared of blowing up on the run like I did in Utah that I went ez on the bike. Did not matter in the end because I did not blow up I just stopped running.

The run was awesome, I was not passed once in the first half, thats the benefit of starting the run so far back. I trucked through the first half it was awesome. Got to mile 19 about when the sun went down and that was it, stopped for soup and pretzel and never started again.

I was not hurt, no GI issues, nothing that could have stopped me from running I just simply chose not to. Went through 19 miles at 8.00's took 2 hours to walk the last 6.

Would more years have prepared me for the mind issues at mile 20? I dont no, I doubt it, I was just so shocked that I wanted to walk. You dont think to straight after 11+ hours of exercise :)

Anybody that can cross that finish line in 17 hours isn't that out of shape. It's a big deal. At least that person had the courage to get off the couch and do something. I'm proud of every single person that starts an Ironman, and I'm proud of every finisher. If you look at the populace as a whole, these people don't look that out of shape anymore.

As far as requiring a half-IM before letting someone race a full, I would have done that if I had to, however, that's not the requirement, and I'm not going to spend extra money (which is considerable for an IM in the first place) to prove to everyone else I can do something I already know I can do myself.

I agree 100% with Andrew, I raced it when I did because I had the opportunity to- so I seized it. If you're not comfortable with that, fine, I'm not going to complain about your taking your time.

The Ironman is much more than a race. How many of the people that finish actually have a shot at winning? Like I said, I didn't do it because I was a triathlete there to race people. I did it because I thrive on overcoming the insurmountable and I love to test myself everyday.

Let me ask this, what would you do if there weren't any 17 hr finishers out there to define to you where you should finish? What if the cutoff was 12 hrs instead of 17, and you would be crossing at 11:59:59? Would you still do it, or would you wait until you could do it in 10 hrs?

You have your personal goals, more power to you. I hope you achieve them, I just ask you don't sh$t on mine or anyone else's.

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

My first tri was the Ironman. 11:43. I'm a former college lacrosse player and a lacrosse buddy and I made a bet and just did it. We had no idea what we were doing but it was a blast from start to finish. Made a lot of mistakes but I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. That's what the Ironman is all about, a challenge of mind and body. There is no rule book that says you have to follow a certain progression or formula. Just do it!

ps when I signed up I had never ran more than 13 miles, never rode mor than 60miles and never swim more han a mile.

My first ever triathlon was IM USA. I really don't think there is anything wrong with that. I happen to live in Lake Placid and after 2 years of watching the race deceided to give it a go. I know of other people in town who have done the same thing. Some just to have done it and others have gotten into the sport. I myself figured it would be a one time deal, but I am racing again this year. It brought me into the sport. I did a few shorter races last year and have more experience now. I really don't think I can shave any huge amounts of time off of my first race time. I did my first race in 11:29. If everything works out perfectly for me this year I hope to break 11 hours, but I would not bet on it and won't be crushed if I don't as long as I have fun. I really don't see how working my way up would have helped. I did not even have a backround in any of the 3 sports. I was (and still am) a Mntn Biker and a skier. I happen to be better suited towards endurace events and know my body pretty well. If a person knows their body, I think they can do just fine jumping right in to Ironman distance. I don't think It lessened the race for me, I was not there just to finish, I wanted to see how fast I could do it. Isn't that the point of racing?

If the cutoff was 12 hours, maybe I'd try and maybe I wouldn't - but far fewer people would do it overall. I don't think I'll ever be in shape to make 10 hours.

I never said anyone who finishes at 17 hours is out of shape - or that they didn't accomplish an impressive feat. They certainly did so. My issue has to do with the idea of "paying your dues" - which I think ought to be done with a logical buildup of experience to suit the nature of the race. You, Andrew, and probably others will disagree. Both you and Andrew stated that you had the opportunity to do the IM, so you took it. I commend you. But what do you do for an encore? Perhaps you better your time, do other IM races, or try to qualify for Hawaii. Best of luck to you. But my original post raised the issue of: Why do people feel the need to move so quickly to the highest level of this sport?

I am involved with triathlon because I love training and competing in all 3 sports, and I like being in great shape. I discovered this by experiencing triathlon at its beginner level - sprint racing. On the contrary, I think that perhaps some that decide to do an ironman right away, entering the sport at its highest level, are doing so to check off a box on their goal list, or perhaps to settle a bet, as slick stated. Nothing wrong with that, but perhaps "ironman" in that sense should be considered a different sport than "triathlon".

I think that the choice to do an ironman race should be no different than the choice to do a sprint or olympic distance. If you figure that you are in good enough shape to complete the distance and that is your goal then go for it. I know a lot of elites that train like crazy and go out and DNF. Personally, my goals were to race an ironman which meant that I spent 10 years in the sport before I moved up (I still don't know if I've actually raced one yet though, since I was reduced to some pretty slow areas on the 2 that I have done and to me "racing" means trying to kick the asses of fellow competitors and not just hoping to shuffle over the line). However, I know that in my first year of doing tris (after a long time as a competitive runner) I could probably have gone and done a 13 or 14 hour ironman race as my first tri ever. Everyone has individual goals about why they race and how they want to race and if the first 2000 people that manage to register at Lake Placid are all rookies who go 14 hours, then they've earned the right (and paid a lot I might add) to be there and do their thing just like the seasoned veterans (Plus it will make Kona qualifying easier for the rest of us). As long as they know what they're getting into, or at least have some clue, and take the race seriously enough to know the rules and requirements then I don't see any problem with making ironman your first tri.

I came to running / triathlon very late, 26-27 and from a very unhealthy background.

Had I followed a more "normal" path prehaps I would have ran in HS, then college if I were fast enough.

In that time I'd have started with a 800, then 1500, then the mile and 8k XC, then the 5k in the summer and in college stuck with XC and the 5k prehaps moving up to the 10k........

As it is you play the cards you're dealt, there are plenty of people out there that have been running for years and wont beat me, there are also plenty of people out there that I will never have a cat in hells chance of coming close to beating. I am fortunate to have been able to improve the way I did, you cant begrudge me that I dont begrudge the people here that qualified for HA first IM out.

I dont understand this "paying my dues" should I have stuck with the 10k before moving up to the half, then the half before moving up to the marathon?

What do I do for an encore?

Thats interesting, at the moment my goals are really clear cut, sub 2.10 for an oly, break 20 mins for 1500, run a half in 1.15, a marathon in sub 3.00 and an IM in 11 give or take.

Thats what I'd like to do, not saying I will and not saying I wont but that would be my encore but once I got there the goal posts will have moved and I'll be just as disappointed with those times and want to improve so it does not get any easier.

I will be absolutely honest, sprints hold Zero interest for me, none, wont care if I never do one, there's just nothing remotely attractive about it and I cant explain or justify why.

I like Olys in the same way I like half marathons, my favorite distance, you can go balls out for the entire race and not worry about self destructing, I could kill myself on the bike and still get off and hold together a reaasonable run but the IM thats the real deal, physically and mentally no matter where you finish.

I agree. "Paying your dues" is silly. If you want to compete, get in the game. Life is short. If you have a check list make sure you check em all off. If you want to excell at one thing, go for it. I have a check list. I just don't know what's on it yet.

Again, Andrew, no offense - from your accomplishments you sound to be quite an accomplished athlete, and still under 30! Good for you.

If the expression "paying your dues" doesn't mean anything to you, then I doubt that anything I say will help you understand it. But I'll try with a baseball example: Sometimes, a pro baseball team will sign a new recruit, a star pitcher with no major league experience at all. Instead of bringing him into their starting pitching rotation right away, they'll send him to their farm team, and let him get some experience there first. They still have to pay him the million-dollar salary, but they figure its better that he accomplish things at a lower level before going right to the top. It's not because he isn't capable of going right to the top - its just that experience tends to make a better pitcher overall and for the long term. And sure neough, when he gets to the top, he feels prouder and more accomplished than if he had gone there right away. Why? Because he has worked hard at every level, mastering each level, working his way up, and has made it to the highest level with a solid foundation.

If you've nevere done a sprint, perhaps you shoudl try one - you might like it!