A lock option is available and I do have the lockable version but I *never* use it. It is quite an expensive option as well.

Sam

Sam: I can tell you from experience (I do own cheap carbon weels, Zipp 606 set, Zipp Z8 front and Zipp disk). The difference in actual speed between using ordinary Mavic Ksyrium elite wheels and any of the wheel combinations mentioned above is really marginal. Those wheels look nice but they really don't make you much faster. Especially not at the speeds we are racing in IM races.
The same is true for tires. In the real world -ie outside the testlab - it really doens't matter that much wether you are racing Evo Cx tubulars or cheap Continental gatorskin tubulars.
And I always put Notubes fluid in my tubulars (no, I am not sponsored). There will probably be people that argue that this will make you a lot slower but all can say that I never ever had a flat which is something that really could make you slow. And I don't have to put a truckload of spare parts for replacing a tire on my bike ;-)
Anyway, I do like the fact that people criticise my training aids, my bike setup and my equipment and think I am losing lots of time. I probably could beat Chris Lieto on the bike if I weren't so foolish (just kidding). I definately beat him on the run though ;-) And probably - according to some who seem to know it all here - I am also losing lots of time during the run since I am not running in Newtons and compression socks or whatever ;-)

Anyway, if anybody has tips on improving my swim I will be all open to listen because I really have to do my best not to sink to the bottom when I jump into the water.
So far my attempt to write a constructive post. I ll anxiously wait for the bashing follow ups...

Kind regards,
Sam

Sam...! You are so cool! What a comeback ;-)

I would love to help you with your swimming, and I think you should get somebody to make a film of your swimming and post it on slowtwitch, and I would love to give you feedback. You can also PM me if that's better for you. I have been training swimmers here in Denmark, also some fast freestyle swimmers :)

---

---
Long Distance PB: 8:25
Instagram: larsschmidttri

Did you consider training with a fixed gear instead?

I have been training with my fixed gear bike quite a lot on the trainer and on the track and I am sure it helps pedaling more efficient but not to the same extend PCs do (hipflexors and hamstrings aren't working that much). I did test a track version of PCs (cranks are fixed but make a clicking sound if you don't make complete circles).
Personally, I think riding a fixed gear all the time is quite boring and impossible on a very hilly terrain. I am sure though that riding fixed gear might help some people cycling better.

Sam

Congratulations on an outstanding performance. What were your power numbers in the years prior to using PC?

(at 6', 175pounds, 230w gets me over 25mph)

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Congrats man that is a heck of a race. If you have a vid of you riding the PC's maybe on a trainer or something I would love to see it as I have only read the anti-science crowd ripping on them, but yet to see them. Kudos...enjoy the off season.

Really? Just one minute? What's the actual time... 5 minutes? 10 minutes?

When you change cranks, I assume that each crankset has its own set of chainrings?

If so, are your chainrings the same (i.e., if 53-39 on the powercranks, do your race cranks have 53-39 as well? Or do you use a higher one, say 56-42, or whatever?

Thanks!

So you keep an octalink BB in your race bike and just swap out PC's for regualar cranks the day before? That would only take one minute...but you Blue bike takes an octalink? I would think it would only take a newer external BB?

FWIW I have powercranks and they have definately helped me. I keep them on my road bike, not my tri bike. Do you think I would gain any benefits from switching them over to the Tri bike and riding them exclusively? I ride them twice a week and only about 25% of my milage. But I dont think the BB's are compatible...

They definately help!

Thanks Sam!

I have put a BSA bracket adapter (from SRAM) in my Blue Triad frame to accomodate for the octalink bracket. Performancewise there is no difference between old fashioned brackets and the newer types imo.
I have now octalink brackets in all my bikes. The hipflexors will work much harder in a tribike setup because of the smaller angle between femur and body in a TT-position. I *always* ride a tribike (except for fixed gear training) and I do have the luxury of having my old P3C permanently on the indoor trainer ;-)

Sam

Your definition of "marginal" must have a fairly HUGE margin...and if that's the case, then by your definition, training with PCs may have only given you a "marginal" difference in power output ;-)



Again, you must have a huge margin on "doesn't matter much"...and, I guess it "doesn't matter much" if one trains harder using PCs or not...

Seriously. The effects of those 2 choices you detail above on your "demand" can easily meet, or exceed what you've claimed you gained in "supply". That's a provable fact, both in highly controlled testing, and in field testing "on the road".



Actually, the data suggests otherwise. Adding liquid sealant as a prophylactic aid doesn't make a tire slower.




Let's just say that if you think you can put the same (or nearly so) time up for an IM bike leg running Ksyriums with Gatorskin tubulars vs. 808 FCs and Vittoria tubulars, then you're fooling yourself. Seriously. Those 2 changes alone could easily "swamp" any 20W increase in fitness you may gained through training. Why waste those hard-earned fitness gains by frittering them away with poor equipment choices?

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

That is odd, is this your website - http://www.samgyde.com/ ? One of your listed sponsors is Powercranks.

No, that is not increased efficiency for you or for anyone. If that is your only proof of improvement in efficiency, you did not measure efficiency.


That is odd, a minute ago you were talking about an improvement of 20 watts as significant.

---

---

Erik
Strava

That is the mother-load of revisionist history.

---

---

Erik
Strava

Quote:

I had an imbalance between left and right leg (right leg being stronger) => imbalance is completely gone

I have to agree 100% with this statement. I have mentioned this before, but when I first tried PC's (2007), my left leg would fail in about 10 secs. The failure occured in my hip muscles. It is my belief that I ahd been favoring my left side ever since I had knee surgery back in 1995. Between the surget (lateral release) and the favoring, I had a massive strength imbalance between my legs.

PC's absolutely helped close that difference. I won't make any claims re: improved ability on the bike, since my use also coincided with increased mileage and training focus, but there is no doubt it helped with my strength imbalance.

As I continue to struggle with ITBS now, I will be incorporating more PC work over the winter to further help strengthen my left hip muscles.

*edited for typos

---

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

They might "swamp" 20W if you are averaging 45kph and +350W but at my moderate 270W and 39kph average the gain is much less. The only point I am trying to make is that if you want to go really fast, you have to train really hard and smart. Equipment only is just nice looking but doens't make you faster. For a MOP IM athlete, tire choice and wheel choice is really unimportant. And in the real world, most road surfaces are so bad that you can't really benefit from the better rolling resistance of tires and it might be a wiser decision to sacrifice some rolling resistance for more puncture resistance. And that's a choice that everybody needs to make for him/herself.

Kr,
Sam

Oh my goodness, you disagreed w/ how he measured efficiency. I never in a million years would have predicted this. Wow, I never would have guessed!!

This is what I don't get about guys like you. Like I said before, instead of trying to learn from a guy who's going 8:50, you instead bait him w/ questions that you already know you're going to disagree with so that you can get into a debate over efficiency.

For the life of me I can't figure out why you'd rather get into a pissing contest w/ this guy on how to measure efficiency vs trying to learn how he got so damn fast.

But like I said before, by all means...you continue to win the battle of the internet wars and he'll continue to use his poor methods and be kicking your ass where it actually matters.

Yes, I put them on since july because the Belgian distributer now and then lets me use some prototype equipment or an extra set when I am travelling. I am always thankful when getting a little bit of support (this is as good as it gets as a Belgian AG athlete) and putting on a link on my site is only a small gesture and doesn't mean I have a commercial interest as stated originaly.

I don't get the motivation of your posts however... I just express my positive experience with a product. I don't claim it is the 'only' and 'best' solution for everybody. I only say that I am happy with using PCs. Just as people are happy riding +6h bikesplits with 10k$ tribikes at IM races. We all race just for fun and are enjoying our training and racing equipment. Some posts here really breathe anger and frustration... I don't really understand why... Isn't triathlon just a way to enjoy ourselves in a way that feels ok for every individual? Why being bothered if somebody's seat is too high, tire is too flat, wheel has to many spokes, gels are attached to a top tube, spacers are put under a stem... It's all individual choices people feel good about but some people here don't seem to get this for some reason...

Sam great stuff and thanks for your insights . Your strenght is obviously not overthinking stuff and training hard. I LOVE that .
All those people that worry to much about details and forget to focus on the essence can learn from that. And it seems like if you get the right sponsorship you can go even faster.

good luck

First of all, and I hope you're as "open" to learning about equipment as you are about training methods, but the amount of power you produce is independent of the "drag" caused by your equipment. Aero drag and rolling resistance are both functions of velocity, not power, with aero drag power varying with the cube of the velocity and rolling resistance being directly proportional. The "demand" side of the speed equation is independent of the "supply" side...and there's nothing wrong with worrying about both.

So...let's look at those 2 speeds you chose above. Since rolling resistance is linearly proportional to speed, that means that whatever the rolling resistance power required is at 45kph, it will still be 39/45 = .87, or 87% of that amount at 39 kph...that's right, nearly 90% of the same value.

Now, let's look at what happens to aero drag between those 2 speeds. Whatever the aero drag power required is at 45kph, at 39kph it's going to be 39^3 / 45^3 = .65, or 65% of the same value. If that power is significant at 45kph, then it's hard to say it's NOT still significant at 39kph when it's still ~2/3 of the same amount.

You got me curious about just how much power difference there would be between Gatorskins and Vittoria tubulars...unfortunately, AFM's handy chart (http://www.biketechreview.com/...ire_testing_rev9.pdf) doesn't have both on there, but it does have the 290tpi Vittoria Corsa CX tubular. For his testing, he found that it has a Crr = .00267. My own experience is that this can be equated to an "on road" Crr value by multiplying by 1.5...which means that on the road one would expect a Crr = .0040. There's an old Tour magazine test that shows that Ultra Gatorskin clinchers have ~50% higher Crr than the Vittoria tubulars, or ~.0060...so a reasonable guess at the difference (I wouldn't expect the tubulars to have a lower Crr) in real "on road" Crr would be .0020.

Figuring out the difference in power required to "roll" those tires is fairly trivial, since Power difference = Crr difference* Velocity * mass * gravity

First, let's convert the speeds to m/s, since that keeps units consistent in that equation...45kph = 12.5 m/s, 39kph = 10.8 m/s, and I'll assume an all up mass of 80kg.

Power diff at 45kph = .0020 * (12.5 m/s) * (80kg) * (9.81 m/s^2) = 19.6W (Wow...pretty close to JUST the Crr accounting for 20W...interesting)

Power diff at 39kph = .0020 * (10.8 m/s) * (80kg) * (9.81 m/s^2) = 17W

Yup...a whopping 2.6W less due to the speed difference.

Now, let's look at the aero drag...


Look at that point for the Ksyrium (second from the right) vs. where the OLD Zipp 808 is sitting. That's a difference of 16.5W at 50kph for just ONE wheel...this would still be a difference of 12W at 45kph, and 8W at 39kph. Let's make a conservative assumption that the rear wheel would only receive 50% of this benefit due to sheltering, so that would mean a total wheel aero drag of 18W at 45kph, and 12W at 39kph.

So...let's do some totals for the differences in total "demand" at each speed:

45 kph -> Rolling resistance difference plus aero drag difference = 19.6W + 18W = 38W
39 kph -> 17W + 12W = 29W

Yeah...even at 39kph, 29W is still significantly greater than 20W in my book...heck, I'd even say it "swamps" it ;-)




Sure, that's a necessary condition...but it's not sufficient. To truly go fast, you have to look at the demand side as well.




That's demonstrably false...and you should realize that after just the simple example I gave above.




Actually...it's just the opposite. MOP athletes typically don't have any "power to spare". That doesn't mean they need to ignore their training. It's OK to do both ;-)




Percent differences in rolling resistance hold no matter the road surface. Again, that's something that's a demonstrable fact, and makes sense if you understand the source of rolling resistance (i.e. material hysteresis losses).



That depends on how much rolling resistance you're sacrificing and how good you are at repairing a flat. I've done calculations before where even if one DID happen to flat, the rider would still be time ahead after taking as much as 5 minutes to repair a flat.

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Did you just refer to a test where they used the same tire pressure regardless of tire width (19-27 mm) while trying to educate someone about "the source of rolling resistance". Now that's funny!


Sam - Thanks for sharing and good luck in the future!!

Absolutely...and if you don't understand why that was done, then it sounds like you need some further education as well.

Are you implying that the wider tires should be run at lower pressures? Are you aware of what that would mean for the Crr on an extremely smooth surface, like a roller?

---

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Love that quote, hahaha!

---

----------------------------------------------------------

keep it simple , keep it real .
--Brett Sutton

But i dont really know that much about bikes. I just sit on em and do as i am told. peddle. hard and fast.
--Chrissie Wellington

I think the best way to get faster is to enjoy it, the more you do the better you get, so go out and enjoy swim, biking and running, and don't feel to constrained and just do lots.
--Stephen Bayliss

Not that Tom A. needs any help, but you are bringing a dull popsicle stick to a knife fight here.

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

This is what I don't get about guys like you. Like I said before, instead of trying to learn from a guy who's going 8:50, you instead bait him w/ questions that you already know you're going to disagree with so that you can get into a debate over efficiency.

I am with you on this one. I lean towards hard training over the aero/tech/equip/sci-geek stuff. Not to say that the aero/tech etc stuff is not important but it does not come close to building the engine. Sam's sharing of his info is a breath of fresh air around here and I think his replies here are very insightful. I hope he doesn't get discouraged with this place because some people are trying to blow him out of the water with their 'expertise' or baiting.....8:50 kind of speaks for itself.......and I hope he continues to post.

And speaking of water, Sam, if your swim is lacking, talk to Desert Dude. He will help you get your shit together.

---

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

I don't disagree with your larger point but this:

To truly go fast, you have to look at the demand side as well.

Isn'r really true for the case at hand. He was the fastest amatuer at the WC after all.

---

Styrrell