All of this below. Plus, if you can't do racing turns because they make you breathless its a sure sign that you're not fit. They are a mini work-out within each lap. Done properly - including the 3 x dolphin kicks and then two strokes before breathing- they will make you fitter and faster. The only time I don't do them is when there are a bunch of people standing at the end of the pool talking and I don't want to kick anyone in the head.

Not doing flip turns and claiming you know better (no walls in o/w swimming....) is like telling a pro cyclist that they don't need to race in the drops because you like to use the hoods.

I do, but not because I want to...

When I do longer sets where I'm focusing on controlling my breathing and heart rate I like the open turns better. I'm not great at flip turns so it usually screws up my rhythm and I have to swim even slower to catch my breath.

Wait, that's not what ST is for? I must be on the wrong site

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It's easy to make excuses, but excuses don't make champions.

Because I like being able to swim 2000 yards without drowning. Every time I have attempted to do a flip turn I either end up with a nose full of water, I kick off early and end up shooting into the floor of the pool, I crash into the wall for flipping too late, or I miss the wall for flipping too early. The result is always the same. I end up having to pull to the surface in a coughing fit trying to catch my breath & my rhythm is gone.

Like others have said, when we have to start doing flip turns in open water, I will work on getting better at them.

Those people would have finished ahead of me anyway, and more than likely they were never party to my run-walk-run methodology because they were ahead of me from the get go. But if I try & go all out for 26 miles, without taking short breaks, those people will finish an hour ahead of me rather than just 30 minutes ahead of me.

I have grown into a much better runner because of the Galloway method. I started off doing 2 minute run / 1 minute walk. Now I do 4:15 run / 20 second walk on my daily runs & on race day I will run for three quarters of a mile & walk for 15 seconds. Over the span of a marathon, I am walking for about 9 minutes, but those 9 minutes buy me 30 or more off my finish time. Seems like a pretty good ROI to me.

Open turns are slower. If you are swimming on a club or masters team and the person ahead of you decides to throw in an open turn, you can easily gain a body length and run into their back.

If you are swimming in a masters program, learn to do them. If you want to actually get faster in the water, learn them. If you actually want to get faster, I would also say that its a good idea to jump into masters swim meets in the off season. If you don't care if you get faster or not, do whatever you want.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I get sinus issues when I do too many of them and I'm just lazy. Both factors interact to the point that I only do flip turns when I'm doing really hard sets.

I don't get the "time investment" part. You have to turn once you get to the end of the pool anyway. Why not just start doing flip turns? Sure the first ones will suck but like most things, you get better with practice. Some people say flip turns make pool swimming more like open water as you aren't stopping to breath.

I can do them just fine, and did when I was a wee one. However, after a bad streak of ear infections as a teenager, one of my eardrums has a pocket on it, which if it fills up quickly causes pretty nasty vertigo. One of the easiest ways for me to fill it up is to quickly somersault in the water, as is done in a flip turn. If it fills slowly, it's hardly noticeable. Since I prefer actually being able to swim more than a couple of laps, and assume my fellow swimmers wouldn't appreciate me throwing up in the pool (when I realized this was a problem as a teenager I actually hurled on the deck, it was lovely), I do open turns. Every six months or so I give it a try to see if I still have the problem, and for several years, I still do. I know I'm leaving about 3 or 4 seconds a length on the table, but as I a) don't care, and b) don't do masters it's of no matter. I submit to ridicule, but only if you want me to throw up on you at some point.

I'm with Bionic here. While I don't have to circle swim very often at my pool, so my experience is limited, there is something of an unwritten rule that you try & maintain spacing when you do. Think of it like a 3 second rule when riding your bike in traffic. This helps you to avoid these wall crashes. If the person behind you is gaining fast, don't get all cocky and try to speed up. Humble up, get to the wall, wait, and let them pass you. And if you are behind someone slower, don't try & crash into their ass at the wall. Wait, and after the turn, pass them in the lane if it's clear from the other swimmers. Now, if you are circle swimming with 4-5 or more people, the latter becomes impossible, so you need to rely on the former. And if you keep getting passed, or people keep crashing into you at the wall, maybe you need to get out & change lanes because you are driving your 4-cylinder Ford Festiva in the left lane of the autobahn.

Of course, I also have no experience with club or masters teams, so what the rules are in those swims is unknown to me, but I have to think that if you are the guy/girl getting crashed into at the wall every lap, maybe flip turns aren't your only problem.

If I remember correctly, when I learned to to flip turns as a kid we spent all of about half a practice learning the basic mechanics. After that, it was swim swim swim. In a single 10x100 set you get 30 chances to practice your flipturn. a 9,000 m week (which isn't all that much, about 3 hours in the pool will give you around 270 chances to practice turns. All with no additional time investment.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

2a. Keep the palms of both hands facing the bottom of the pool. Think of your hands and arms as stationary from this moment to the instant you start to spin to your stomach in 5. above.
3a. Use downward pressure from your hands/arms in 2a. to assist in turning over. Maintain arm position pointing to the far wall (where you came from and where you want to go after the turn).

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Not sure if your entire post was directed at me, but I do flips turns, very poorly. I dedicate practice time to getting better at them. Feel like an idiot flipping over in the middle of the pool but do it anyway.

Btw, is there a membership card? I haven't received one yet. :)

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Loud pawls save lives

Well, since most of the guys ridiculing you for not doing flip turns are also probably peeing in the pool, I'm sure they won't mind a little puke in the pool as well. /pink

I was going to dedicate my offseason swim time to learning them....but developed a stress fracture in my heel in September and spent 6 weeks on crutches. I am now super-protective (ok, over-protective) and paranoid about injuring myself again.

Once (if?) I get through this season healthy, I'm gonna spent the offseason working on them.....hopefully.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

There isn't necessarily the option to change lanes. If you are in masters, then open turns are disruptive. You might be swimming as fast as everyone else (so you are in the appropriate lane) but you lose a body length every turn, so the guy leaving 5 secs after you catches up after a 75, or if you are leaving last, the guy who leads the lane catches you.

The point is that they really aren't that difficult to do once you learn them, and they keep the rhythm of the lane going much better.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Before I started doing flip turns, my biggest source of resistance was the fear that I would do them wrong and look silly. I realized that being a middle-aged man in a Speedo, the silliness ship had already sailed.

I HATE YOU FLIPPERS..

I am a non flipper because I DONT KNOW HOW.. Now I feel ashamed and bashful.

I am going to the pool now to learn to flip turn once and for all.

I HATE YOU GUYS.

Be back in a few hours to post my results.

Did I mention I hate all you flippers? But, soon I will be one of you. I HOPE.

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Austin Hardy -

I'm a hair over 6'1" and I flip in the shallow end no problem. And our shallow end is only waist high (~3 feet). I learned just doing them in the deep end, and when I started doing them in the shallow end, I definitely had some close calls. Almost scalped myself once, another time I pushed off too low and rolled on to my stomach, giving my nipple the cheese grater treatment on the old tile floor of the pool =). You learn pretty quick after that one!

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Long Chile was a silly place.

You shouldn't drop down that far. If you can do an open turn without putting your feet on the botton, then there is enough room to flipturn. The shallow end of our pool is no more than 4 feet, flip turns are no problem. It gets sketchy when the pool gets really shallow though, the shallowest pool I trained in was a bit under 3 feet. I have a bunch of scars on the tops of my feet from kicking off the wall.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Fify. It took me months to really master the flip turn. It's like learning to drive stick. You struggle
Consciously with it for a while, then eventually it just becomes automatic. Good luck! Your swim times will thank you!

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I know how to do flip turns. Years of swim team as a kid made sure of that. That said I only do open turns during my long swims. After a few laps I start getting very dizzy at the turns if I try and do flips. I switched to open turns and have no problems ... and I'm much safer to swim with. It works for me. I really don't understand the issue with open turn swimmers. I get why flip turners do what they do but there is no impact to you if I chose to do an open turn. Also I can tell you that just because one does flip turns doesn't make them a better swimmer. I've seen plenty of horrible form on great flip turners :) There are plenty of other pool etiquette issues that are more concerning than an open turn.

I like to argue! As a preface. I totally agree that flip turns are faster, more efficient and the way to go if you can do them. I just don't see that they will make one push harder. A slower inefficient turn requires that you have to push hard to make an interval because you need to make up for lost time. Again, I'm pro-learning to flip turn, just don't agree that you will push harder one way or the other really. If I'm correct both hands need to touch the wall before turning in butterfly and breast stroke competition, this making an open turn the faster option. Does this mean that people who compete in these strokes do not push themselves as hard n training?

Check out this little video I made a while back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExLqw_SlBlI


I think triathletes should do flip turns to simply become more aquatic. More aware of how bodies move in water. Streamlined deep and long so once per length you can experience "overspeed sensation" that works so much better than when done with an open turn.

l do not do flip turns because l get sick when flipping upside down. l did 3 turns one day and was sick the entire rest of the day. l can not swim as fast in pool as others. But in open water l can hang with most. Usual Half iron swim is 29-30 minutes. Faster than most that do flip turns. Not bragging about my time, just stating that flip turns are the judge of good vs bad swimmers. l wish l could so l could do masters swim meets, but triathlons are more important to me.
l do maybe one tri a year in a pool and have been told that when going under lane line, flip turns are slower.

l do maybe one tri a year in a pool and have been told that when going under lane line, flip turns are slower.

Huh? I don't understand why you've been told that.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly