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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [PhilDBasket] [ In reply to ]
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Carbo Pro uses a glucose polymer (according to their website (buried in mumbo jumbo)).

The malto I linked to at Musclefeast uses a glucose polymer (according to their website (buried in mumbo jumbo)).

So, again, what is so special about Carbo Pro?

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I use it and add electrolytes. I just don't talk about it much because it's not too exciting. I also add some flavor (most recently crystal light in a big batch) because I don't like the taste plain.
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I filter tap through the refrigerator water filter thingy (when I'm not using my caught rain water (a whole nother topic)). I even have a co2 bubble maker for when I'm having "Pelegrino".

Our local tap water taste like ass (yes, I've compared it).

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
Anyone else still rocking the bulk maltodextrin?

Anyone in Canada have a good online source? I usually deal with whey-factory.com, but they've been out of stock for several months now.

Thanks,
Graham
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
You really aren't that stupid, are you? Distilled water is pure h2o. Tap water has all kinds of other stuff in it. Where I live it's "hard" and has fluoride added to it.

Pure Maltodextrin is pure maltodextrin. If you'd like to compare it to water then compare one brand of distilled water (Arrowhead, for example) to generic grocery store distilled water. Distilled water is distilled water. If you want to pay more for Arrowhead, be my guest but you are wasting your money.
as the other post noted, you're starting to get warmer as at least now i think you're starting to appreciate that there is in fact a difference between tap and distilled water. why you fail to also understand that there is a difference in maltodextrin is borderline entertaining.

what would be really amusing is that if you educated yourself enough on the subject to realize how stupid you sound. of course that will never happen.

again, please continue to post (incorrectly) that every single thing that says maltodextrin on it is EXACTLY the same maltodextrin. maltodextrin = maltodextrin
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
Carbo Pro uses a glucose polymer (according to their website (buried in mumbo jumbo)).


It might be easier for you if I
make this a multiple choice question.....Do all maltodextrins have the same chemical properties?
Please choose:

1) yes
2) no



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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [PhilDBasket] [ In reply to ]
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PhilDBasket wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Carbo Pro uses a glucose polymer (according to their website (buried in mumbo jumbo)).



It might be easier for you if I
make this a multiple choice question.....Do all maltodextrins have the same chemical properties?
Please choose:

1) yes
2) no


First, I'm not comparing all maltodextrin. I'm comparing this - http://www.trisports.com/capucoca.html to this - http://www.musclefeast.com/Maltodextrin.html - which, as far as anyone can tell, has no difference.

Is all maltodextrin the same? No. So the answer is number 2.


Now your turn. Complete the following sentence: Carbo Pro is worth three times the price because.....

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
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So tell me, oh great and wise (and likely drunk) MeltingPunk, what is so special about CP that the other stuff I linked to lacks that makes it worth 3x the money?

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
So tell me, oh great and wise (and likely drunk) MeltingPunk, what is so special about CP that the other stuff I linked to lacks that makes it worth 3x the money?
Packaging and convenience. The same reason bottled H2O is sold for 10-100x the price of tap water.
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
Is all maltodextrin the same? No. So the answer is number 2.

Bingo! Now we're getting somewhere.

Duffy wrote:
First, I'm not comparing all maltodextrin

Does that mean you'd like to rephrase something you said in post #49?

Duffy wrote:
Pure Maltodextrin is pure maltodextrin.
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
Duffy wrote:
So tell me, oh great and wise (and likely drunk) MeltingPunk, what is so special about CP that the other stuff I linked to lacks that makes it worth 3x the money?
Packaging and convenience. The same reason bottled H2O is sold for 10-100x the price of tap water.

This is true - although I'd definitely argue that it's trivially more complicated to buy the $50 bulk bag online and get a separate paint bucket to store it in. In fact, given that you only have to do this once, against 7-8separate (at least) purchases of typical 5-8lbs quantities of the 3x priced stuff, I'd argue that it's MORE convenient to get the big one once and for all.

Now prepackage GUs - there's a convenience that I'm more than happy to pay for!
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [PhilDBasket] [ In reply to ]
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PhilDBasket wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Is all maltodextrin the same? No. So the answer is number 2.


Bingo! Now we're getting somewhere.

Duffy wrote:
First, I'm not comparing all maltodextrin


Does that mean you'd like to rephrase something you said in post #49?

Duffy wrote:
Pure Maltodextrin is pure maltodextrin.

I agree with you...not all maltodextrin is the same: "Maltodextrin consists of D-glucose units connected in chains of variable length. The glucose units are primarily linked with ƒ¿(1¨4) glycosidic bonds. Maltodextrin is typically composed of a mixture of chains that vary from three to seventeen glucose units long"

Now, how the heck can you determine if you are purchasing the longer chain malto? I have tried to find specific molecular densities on various maltodextrin products and no one provides that specific information.
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [riltri] [ In reply to ]
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riltri wrote:
PhilDBasket wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Is all maltodextrin the same? No. So the answer is number 2.


Bingo! Now we're getting somewhere.

Duffy wrote:
First, I'm not comparing all maltodextrin


Does that mean you'd like to rephrase something you said in post #49?

Duffy wrote:
Pure Maltodextrin is pure maltodextrin.


I agree with you...not all maltodextrin is the same: "Maltodextrin consists of D-glucose units connected in chains of variable length. The glucose units are primarily linked with ƒ¿(1¨4) glycosidic bonds. Maltodextrin is typically composed of a mixture of chains that vary from three to seventeen glucose units long"

Now, how the heck can you determine if you are purchasing the longer chain malto? I have tried to find specific molecular densities on various maltodextrin products and no one provides that specific information.

Another good question is whether there's any practical difference for the use we're talking about regarding specific maltodextrin lengths. I suspect I've got the lower-end version considering I'm paying the cheapest online price I can find for it ($1/lbs) and it's worked great, and I haven't heard from users who haven't had a functional batch of malto.

And as an aside, just because malto has 3 or 17 chains, it's still maltodextrin by chemist standards. Not the same exact molecule, no, but most chemists would consider it to behave chemically identically. Fatty acids can have a huge variation in the number of chain length, but they're still fatty acids.
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [PhilDBasket] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Does that mean you'd like to rephrase something you said in post #49?

Does this mean you aren't even going to try to explain how CP is special?

What I think I'm seeing here is people who have been using Carbo Pro for a decade or two thinking it's bee's knees and are refusing to admit to themselves that it's been a waste of perhaps thousands of dollars.

Are you going to explain how Carbo Pro is better than the product I linked to, or not?

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
Duffy wrote:
So tell me, oh great and wise (and likely drunk) MeltingPunk, what is so special about CP that the other stuff I linked to lacks that makes it worth 3x the money?
Packaging and convenience. The same reason bottled H2O is sold for 10-100x the price of tap water.

The product I linked to appears to be packaged and convenient.

I don't buy bottled water, either.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [riltri] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Now, how the heck can you determine if you are purchasing the longer chain malto? I have tried to find specific molecular densities on various maltodextrin products and no one provides that specific information.

Good question. Another good question would be; how much extra benefit is seventeen gu long over three (or five or whatever the hell it is)?

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
This is true - although I'd definitely argue that it's trivially more complicated to buy the $50 bulk bag online and get a separate paint bucket to store it in. In fact, given that you only have to do this once, against 7-8separate (at least) purchases of typical 5-8lbs quantities of the 3x priced stuff, I'd argue that it's MORE convenient to get the big one once and for all.
Part of the convenience I was referring to was solubility. I have some malto from a brew shop and it doesn't dissolve in water nearly as well as sugar. I've tried hot and cold water and it seems to clump and take longer to fully dissolve than simple sugar. Perhaps the commercial drink mixes dissolve better. I don't believe there is any difference in performance once you get it dissolved.
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
lightheir wrote:
This is true - although I'd definitely argue that it's trivially more complicated to buy the $50 bulk bag online and get a separate paint bucket to store it in. In fact, given that you only have to do this once, against 7-8separate (at least) purchases of typical 5-8lbs quantities of the 3x priced stuff, I'd argue that it's MORE convenient to get the big one once and for all.
Part of the convenience I was referring to was solubility. I have some malto from a brew shop and it doesn't dissolve in water nearly as well as sugar. I've tried hot and cold water and it seems to clump and take longer to fully dissolve than simple sugar. Perhaps the commercial drink mixes dissolve better. I don't believe there is any difference in performance once you get it dissolved.

I agree - my cheap malto definitely takes longer to dissolve than table sugar, no doubt about it. As said though, it's really not a problem - after 15 minutes on the bike, it's pretty much all in at 'normal' amounts of 1 cup per bottle. I dont do any fancy gymnastics to get it dissolved, and mix it right before I leave on the bike. At least for me, the solubility is a total nonissue with the cheap malto. I guess it might be if you want to make super thick concentrations (I did have problems trying to make a 4x strength batch without heating it) but for the amount above, it works perfectly fine.

I'm definitely not paying 10x the amount for 'better dissolving' given that I've had no problems.

Again, I'll DEFINITELY pay up for prepackage GUs for use on the run or elsewhere. I actually tried making my own gu out of my malto because I had so much and while I did make a sticky goopy translucent gel, the ensuing mess was totally not worth it at all. (Fortuantely I only made a small amount.)
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
Does this mean you aren't even going to try to explain how CP is special?

Can you say S-T-R-A-W-M-A-N? I knew you could.
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [PhilDBasket] [ In reply to ]
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PhilDBasket wrote:
Duffy wrote:
Does this mean you aren't even going to try to explain how CP is special?

Can you say S-T-R-A-W-M-A-N? I knew you could.

So, in conclusion, you are unwilling or unable to explain the added benefit one would get from Carbo Pro. Thanks.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Try this if you'd like...

2 tablespoon Honey
1 tablespoon Brown Rice Syrup
1 Tablespoon Molasses

Makes about 5 oz.

Put it in one of those plastic gel containers or if you only want 1 oz. use a little crack bag. I use blackstrap molasses because it sounds more badass. You can add some salt or electrolytes if it makes you feel better.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
So, in conclusion, you are unwilling or unable to explain the added benefit one would get from Carbo Pro. Thanks.

Ohhh.....ohhh......can I play? can I play??

I am unwilling to discuss your strawman until you, yes - you!, explain the unification of classical electrodynamics and general relativity for everyone here.

I like this game!
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [PhilDBasket] [ In reply to ]
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PhilDBasket wrote:
Duffy wrote:
So, in conclusion, you are unwilling or unable to explain the added benefit one would get from Carbo Pro. Thanks.


Ohhh.....ohhh......can I play? can I play??

I am unwilling to discuss your strawman until you, yes - you!, explain the unification of classical electrodynamics and general relativity for everyone here.

I like this game!


I'm not interested in electrodynamics, however...

Einstein's General Relativity
Einstein's general theory of relativity expanded on the special theory, explained gravity, and predicted phenomena such as black holes and the expanding universe.
The Special and General Theories of Relativity
Einstein published his special theory in 1905 and his general theory in 1916. Thespecial theory applies when no accelerations are involved and its effects become noticeable near the speed of light. The general theory applies when accelerations are involved and in the presence of strong gravitational fields. It explains gravity in terms of the curvature of four dimensional space-time.
Principle of Equivalence
General relativity is based on the principle of equivalence. The two statements of this principle are logically equivalent; either statement can be used to prove the other.
One statement relates to the concept of mass. Mass enters into Newton's second law, which states that the force needed to accelerate an object is proportional to its mass. This mass, the object's resistance to changing its velocity, is the inertial mass. Mass also enters into Newton's law of gravity. The gravitational force acting between two objects is proportional to their masses. This mass is the gravitational mass.
Is the inertial mass the same as the gravitational mass? Newton assumed that they were. Considering the question before concluding that they were, led Einstein to the general theory. The principle of equivalence states that the inertial mass equals the gravitational mass.
From this statement, it is possible to prove the other statement of this principle: Inertial forces are indistinguishable from gravitational forces. An inertial force is the apparent force felt when in an accelerating reference frame. When a car accelerates, the occupants feel pushed back into their seats. No real force is pushing them, but the car they are sitting in, their reference frame, is accelerating. So they feel an apparent inertial force pushing them back into their seats. The principle of equivalence states that it is not possible to distinguish between inertial forces and gravitational forces.
Light Affected by Gravity
Using the principle of equivalence, Einstein was able to show that light is affected by gravitational forces. To understand Einstein's reasoning, consider two enclosed rooms. One is at rest on the Earth's surface; the other is in space far from any gravitational forces but accelerating at exactly the same rate objects fall near Earth's surface. On Earth, the Earth's gravity causes objects to fall and have weight. In the accelerating room, objects will also fall and apparently have weight because the room is accelerating. It is an accelerating reference frame, so objects in the room experience an inertial force. From the principle of equivalence, it is impossible to distinguish between the gravitational force acting on objects in the room on Earth and the inertial force acting on objects in the accelerating room in space.
Consider a light beam shining across the accelerating room. Because the room is accelerating the light beam will strike the opposite wall slightly lower than its starting level. Inertial forces acts on the light beam. Because they are not distinguishable from gravitational forces the light beam should experience exactly the same effect in the room near Earth's surface. A gravitational force affects a light beam just as an inertial force does.
Geometric Nature of Gravity
Light has no mass, so Newtonian gravity predicts light is not affected by gravity. However Einstein concluded that light is affected by gravity and derived a new theory of gravity.
Einstein visualized gravity as a manifestation of the curvature of space-time - the three space dimensions and a fourth time dimension. Most of us cannot visualize a curvature of four dimensional space-time, so visualize a curved two dimensional rubber sheet. Placing a mass on the rubber sheet curves it downward like space-time curves in the presence of a mass. On such a rubber sheet a small mass can circle around the curvature produced by a large mass, just as planets orbit the Sun. Or a mass can roll straight downward just as an object falls to the Earth.
Einstein explained gravity as a result of the curvature of space-time near the presence of a mass. The differences between general relativity and Newton's law of gravity only become noticeable when the gravitational force is very strong.

So what's in Carbo Pro that's worth 3x the money?

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
So tell me, oh great and wise (and likely drunk) MeltingPunk, what is so special about CP that the other stuff I linked to lacks that makes it worth 3x the money?
you are one dense mf'r.

where do you see me comment on cost, whether it's worth it or special, etc? i pointed out that you incorrectly stated that bulk malto and carbopro is EXACTLY the same thing.

it is not EXACTLY the same thing.

you are wrong.

you can't/won't see that.

you're either thick-headed, stupid or both.
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Re: Who's still using bulk maltodextrin in training? [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
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MeltingPot wrote:
Duffy wrote:
So tell me, oh great and wise (and likely drunk) MeltingPunk, what is so special about CP that the other stuff I linked to lacks that makes it worth 3x the money?

you are one dense mf'r.

where do you see me comment on cost, whether it's worth it or special, etc? i pointed out that you incorrectly stated that bulk malto and carbopro is EXACTLY the same thing.

it is not EXACTLY the same thing.

you are wrong.

you can't/won't see that.

you're either thick-headed, stupid or both.



Other than price and the package tell me the difference between this...


http://www.trisports.com/capucoca.html


and this...


http://www.musclefeast.com/Maltodextrin.html


Nobody has even tried to answer this.


Make yourself my hero. Take another swig, sit back and dazzle us with your brilliant compare/contrast of these vastly different (priced) products.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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