Can't respond to which bike to get, but when I was buying my first road bike back in June, I went to Supergo and test rode about 5 bikes. I'm guessing you're buying online? If you could find local dealers of any of these bikes, it would be worth a drive to go to the shops and test-ride them before you order. Just a thought.

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

Nope not buying online. Just a matter of at Endure, they don't have bikes built up in my size at all.

I think that is really shady to test ride bikes at local bike shops and then to buy online.

Well, I bought my bike at the local shop (if you consider Supergo to be a "local" shop), but hey, when you're spending thousands on a bike, you're going to look for the best deal you can get. If that means buying online, then so be it. I hear what you're saying about using the local shop just to test bikes and then not giving them your business, but it's just a fact of business these days. I run an internet business, and we see that alot.

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My business-eBodyboarding.com

A test ride is not really an effective way to evaluate if a bike is optimal.

You have to be honest with yourself: What truly relevant information will you gather during a test ride?

When people go on a test ride they do so to see how a bike "feels". That seems to make sense, but the problem is that the way the bike is when you test ride it is likely to be very significantly different than when you race and train on it. There are too many variables to be accurately controlled for a test ride to reveal usable information about how the long term ownership experience will really be.

You simply can't gather much usable info from a quick spin around the parking lot. that isn't how the bike will be used.

Now, you may argue that the bike shop is willing to "set the bike up for you" for the test ride. I would be wary of that. Honestly, I am not doing 1-3 hours worth of work on a bike- installing the right crank length, installing the right stem, correcting the cable lengths, installing your saddle of preference (if you even have one), dialing in the saddle height and fore/aft, bar height, pedal system, etc. for you to go out and see how it "feels".

And also- if you have never been on one of these bikes- if you are not accustomed to riding a tri bike- then the only "feeling" that you will get is that the bike feels weird.

I would suggest a more systematic approach to finding out which bike is optimal for you. No one bike fits everyone optimally. Some have a propencity to fit a wider range of dimensions than others.

If you are lucky enough to live near a dealer like Endurosport I would recommend visiting them, tell them your goals and then follow their instructions.

Bascially, what you are doing is hiring them to select your bike for you.

Who do you think will do a better job selecting the optimal bike for you? A guy who has done it literally thousands of times for a wide range of customers and riding styles and is active in the sport and formally trained to do so (the guys and Endurosport) -OR- a guy who has never done it before and is taking his best guess based on his "feelings" from a test ride (that's you).

Ultimately, you have to put your trust in someone who buys bikes for a living. to me, that is the wise process.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

It's also worth mentioning that at least two of the bikes on your list do fit and will ride radically, and I mean radically... different from one another.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Assuming you are looking for steep geometry, the Giant and Trek are less than optimal since they start at road geometry (unless you are talking about the NEW Trek we saw last week at IMH, which is steep geometry).

If it were me and I could afford any of them I wanted (and they fit, as you noted)...I'd be all over the P3C or the new Trek Equinox TTX...not because I'd be any faster on them than the others, or even than my current bike (Talon SL)...but just because they are drop dead sexy, and I love bikes.

I would not buy a single one of them. It seems like the decsion to narrow down to that collection has been based soley on emotional criteria. Assuming that all of those bike fit is an impossibiity since they seem to all be very different in they geo's.

on pure emotional look at the collection, I go with the giant-

cervelo=lemming

cannondale=yesterdays news

Trek= follower in the chruch of lance

Leaves the Giant=

or you can get a Guru custom made???

Between those choices I would buy the Giant TCR Composite TT.



But If I was buying a tri bike now, I would buy the new QR Caliente.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Two of these bikes have aluminium frames. Scratch them off the list.

No no, not at all, not buying online. Just that at the store, there really isn't an option to test ride

In response to "Who do you think will do a better job selecting the optimal bike for you? A guy who has done it literally thousands of times for a wide range of customers and riding styles and is active in the sport and formally trained to do so (the guys and Endurosport) -OR- a guy who has never done it before and is taking his best guess based on his "feelings" from a test ride (that's you). "

Great, great comment. And bang on, EXCEPT, the other store that I shop, the owner is also an Ironman competitor, so I value his opinion as well (D'ornella's in Toronto) But, my comment then is, they are only going to recommend what they sell. Enduro is limited in their offering. D'ornella's has a wider range, but not Cervelo. Interesting enough, I talked about this with Enduro yesterday, and asked them if they are considering other bikes for next year. They won't carry Trek, because they don't like the sales person, not necessarily the bikes. And are not expanding their offering for next year. I completely understand the reasons why bike shops will carry some bikes over others. But it's difficult to get an unbiased opinion.

That being said (insert ass kissing here LOL) I very much value your opinion, regardless of what you carry and don't carry.

Mark

I have a P3 and a Blade. I race the P3, it "seems" a little faster. I mostly train on the Blade, it just "feels better". If I could only keep only one of them it would be the Blade. Nothing scientific, I just feel more comfortable on it.

Aloha,

Larry

I'm not sure I understand. Endurosport sells three of the five bikes you have on your list. The fourth bike is a bike that doesn't exist yet, the fifth is one that virtually no shops sells (due to availability, geometry, etc). So I am not sure you are going to find another shop that will give you a more unbiased opinion.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

BTW, what is the value of somebody who is an Ironman competitor? Have you seen Ironman competitors on their bikes? Quite a few have horrendous positions, and even if they have good positions it doesn't mean they know how to position, or how to compensate for your lower back problem, or your leg length discrepancy, etc. I'd rather be fitted by a fitter than by a competitor.

At Endurosport you have people who, as Tom says, have done thousands of fits, are Serotta certified, were present at the first ever FIST camp. focus on triathlon like very few stores in North America, sell Cervelo, Cannondale, Kestrel, Orca, QR, nineteen, not sure what more you would wish for. It's funny how people in Southern Ontario often don't realize how lucky they are, with the Subaru Triathlon series, the Multisport series. and stores like Endurosport. There is no other place on earth that has it that good for triathlon, but because it's always been this way we don't realize it.

As for shops only recommending what they sell, you have to wonder why they don't sell the other brands. Usually it is either because they don't believe in those other brands, or because those other brands don't want to sell to them (either because they don't think the store is well-run or because they can't do th erequired volume). I don't think Trek would ever open up Endurosport, because Trek wants its stores to sell a lot of Trek and for a triathlon-focussed store, that is simply not possible. If you're not selling their mountain bikes and their kids bikes or road bikes, it is very hard to get to the volume that is interesting for Trek (especially since it will be tough to sell a lot of their tri bikes - not dissing them here, just a fact). So you tend to see the Trek tri bikes more in general bike stores and less in specific tri stores - with some exceptions.

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Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle

I just bought a P3C, after test riding a bunch of bikes, and I'm very happy with the decision. I had a test riding experience much like the "idealized" version Tom described as something he doesn't have the time to do. I guess I'm lucky enough to have a local shop (Davis Wheelworks in California) the owner of which (Joe Santos) took the time to fit me on five different bikes (the P3C, Kestrel Airfoil, Kestrel Talon SL, Pinarello Crono and Cannondale IM 5000) He spent about 2 hours doing an initial fit, and then about 30-60 minutes on each bike, setting them up in similar configurations (as geometry allowed). Each time, he checked out my fit on the trainer before sending me out the door - to ride as long as I wanted. I took the P3C on three test rides of about 20 miles each, and each of the others for about 10-15 mile rides.

I wasn't getting any kind of "special" treatment (this was the first bike I bought there, and Joe didn't know me before that) - while I was there, at least one other person got the same kind of attention while shopping for a much less expensive bike.

I realize this is far above average service for a bike shop, which is why I am very happy to shop there and even if I could have saved a few hundred dollars online (which I couldn't have, in the case of the P3C) I was very willing to spend the extra to support the shop and Joe's excellent service.

Anyway, just offering an example of what you can hope for from a really good local shop which puts an emphasis on customer service (and I'm not in any way suggesting Tom's shop is not such a shop - I've never been there, and I think the advice he offers on this site is great - I'm just basing my response on what he said in his post.)

Good luck with your decision.

Scott

ps: I absolutely LOVE the P3C so far - I've been on three rides thus far, and it's very comfortable, far moreso than any of the other bikes I tried out, which, aside from the fact that I really like the way it looks, is why I chose it above the other bikes I tried... and, it just looks and feels FAST!

I'll agree with Gerard that we Ontario athletes are lucky to have shops like Endurosport (and Dornellas) to choose from. Over the years I have bought quite a few items from Endurosport but never a complete bike (I had my old Cannondale before they opened and purchased a frameset and swapped out components a couple years ago). I would feel totally confident walking into Endurosport and having Dan Rishworth recommend a bike and size and fit me on it or a number of the guys like Andrew that were there a few years back. However, since they have grown so much the past couple of years I've noticed a much higher rate of turnover in the staff. I'm not so sure that they are all FIST certified and have the same experience, so I think that I'd be a little more cautious dealing with them. I'm sure it is that way with most stores and would be interested in hearing from retailers how they ensure their staff are "qualified" since you could really hire anyone to work the sales floor. I know that for my LBS it is a total crapshoot if you take your bike there for any work ..... depending on who works on it it comes back like new or seemingly unchanged.

Back to the original thread topic ..... If it fit I'd buy the P3SL since it is a great bike and not going to be made any longer meaning that you'll probably have a chance at getting a good deal on it.

COMPLETELY AGREE, we are blessed in Southern Ontario. Enduro is a great store. You can race every weekend in Southern Ontario, and in some cases twice in a weekend between Multisport and Subaru. (and found out today, it's much more economical to race in Ontario. Looked at a Sprint in New York for $85 US vs $60 Cdn with Multisport series).

And agree with you comment that by simply being an Ironman competitor, it doesn't necessarily make him an expert. However, D'ornellas has become more and more committed to Triathlon over the last few years. In fact, out of all the bike stores that I have been in Toronto, (and I have been in most of them) they appear to be the second most committed to Tri behind Enduro, and I have heard good things about their ability to fit someone on a bike.

The problem is, the first time I walked into Enduro and knew nothing about the sport, my first perception was that they were a little "high" on themselves. Now again, yes it was more to do with the one person that I dealt with that is no longer there, and Peter who I talked to yesterday is a great guy, and I have been fitted by Fiona there on my original bike. But then, Enduro put new wheels on my current bike, and I was having a problem with them, took it to Dornella's for a tune up and to fix the problem, and their comment was, "the wheels were installed improperly". They thought that I had done it, and I never mentioned who had installed them. Again, I am sure that it was an accident or an oversight on Enduro's part, but it was a problem.

Also, D'ornella's has always treated me extremely well, and I have never had an issue. My perception is that D'ornella's seems to want my business more than Endurosport does. And without sitting on each bike, or being fitted on it, how do I really know which one is best for me? I can go by the geometry on each bike, and "hope for the best".

If you have a demo in Toronto (56), I would love the chance to try it out. Is that possible?

Mark

 
"Two of these bikes have aluminium frames. Scratch them off the list."

Funny you say that. I have ridden many bikes including titanium (QR Tiphoon), carbon (QR Lucero and Kestrel Talon), and aluminum (P3, QR Tequilo, C'dale Ironman 800, Cervelo Dual, and Felt S22) and my favorite ride of all has been the all aluminum Cervelo P3. I would not cross the P3SL off the list at all. As a matter of fact, it would be my top choice, even over the P3C. I am saddened that Cervelo decided to drop the P3SL for 2006 but on the other hand delighted that I was able to find one in my size and will now have a collector's TT bike for sure.

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Team Endurance Nation

Depending on where you are in Toronto you may want to drive out to Mississauga if you're leaning towards a non-Cervelo bike, and visit Jean Paul at Remy. He carries Trek, Giant and Cannondale and is a fanatic about bikes. When I lived in Brampton, I always took my bike to him for servicing and he made sure it was done right.

"I know that for my LBS it is a total crapshoot if you take your bike there for any work ..... depending on who works on it it comes back like new or seemingly unchanged. "

Hehehe. I agree Alan. That's why I either do my own work or take my bike to Bloomfield. :-)

   

I have a P3-SL, which is fabulous and am about to build up a P3C. You can tell that a lot of thought and intelligent design went into these bikes. Whoever designed that P3-SL seatpost should get a frickin Nobel prize.

Each of the Cervelo sizes can cover a broad band of configurations (though I think it favors bigger sadde->bar drops and is probably not for a tri type who wants seat and bars level). I did not find this with the Trek TT (or the Aegis for that matter).



-jens

The Giant would be my choice, because you said to assume proper fit. That is one sick puppy.

My opinion is that YES, test ride it. I went in with even the color decided on my last ride, and after riding it, totally changed my mind because of the feel. I was completely right in going with the one that "spoke to me". That said, if you can possibly justify it, do yourself a favor and look at titanium. Easier to justify it because of the expected lifespan, and the best "feel" of any of them. My delight with ti is re-confirmed every ride.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

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