You might want to give some context to the people here who don't know who you are and don't know your history with Ironman Oz.

Personally I wouldn't be sad if Port Mac goes as I was never interested after it left Forster and I can see that race vanishing in the next few years. Cairns and Busso though seem to be doing just fine with the backing of their respective tourism boards although IM Cairns has faced the folks in Port Douglas via the Douglas Shire Council telling them,"Thanks but no thanks,you can bugger off now". If they ever decide that shutting down the road from Cairns to Port is not acceptable then that race will end as we know it and they make just have a multi loop 70.3.

The whole Ironman experience is so different to when we started 30+ years ago and I find myself having less and less in common with the people who are participating in the same events and as an extension of that,am starting to find that on social media (and here) as well.

Oh look another old guy whining about the sky falling...What do you types hope to achieve by these types of posts? You are at the point where you feel you can't go on so instead of trying to foster enthusiasm for the next generation you just look for others to share in your pity? It's weird a weird peculiarity with triathlon that seems to have people want to burn the house down on their way out..

IM is alive and strong in Australia. Busso, Cairns and Port all going strong. Hell Melbourne even has two 70.3's just months apart. A new 70.3 in Tassie... so what's crumbling...?

Given the market on this forum i don't feel that the title of "ironman" and "australia" will generate much interest.

Ironman is differnt now to what it was 10, 15 or 20 years ago. It is now a tick and flick exercise for most to say "I am an ironman". Even since they changed it so as the 1/2 distance was still called "ironman" it has changed the landscape. The entry critieria to simply enter an ironman has gone from qualify, validate to simply pay the entry.

The cost and regularatory red tape must be very prohibitive for race directors meaning that we have boring multi-lap courses year on year.

To that point even the number of races has reduced year on year, the costs have increased and what you get is less and less.

I remember when you used to get a welcome dinner, full sized towel, polo shirt and an awards dinner at Forster.

Ironman will still have a place and numbers will continue to fluctuate. I really feel that 70.3 is where the people will go.

[quote mwbowring

I remember when you used to get a welcome dinner, full sized towel, polo shirt and an awards dinner at Forster.[/quote]
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Not to mention the unbelievable drunken Gong-Show that was the after party.

I do feel responsible in part (along with my partner in crime Englishman Bob Brown) for the removal of free wine at the carbo party after one particularly drunken pre-race carbo dinner around '97or '98.

I'm concerned Ironman Aust has painted itself into a corner at Port Macq.

The big news touted this year was the signing of a contract for the race extending another 3 years at Port Macq, however it is contingent on the cycle course being primarily on the rural roads west of the highway to appease council and residents. This year saw the course heading west for the first time and many weren't happy with what they discovered out there.

While I loved the new bike course and used to often enjoy a week at Port training on those roads when I younger, the chatter on the course and post-race among the slower athletes was of the slow and taxing cycle course. In the food tent post-race, both many aging regulars and newbies were saying they wouldn't be back. Filling out this year's post-event survey, I couldn't help wonder about the prevailing feedback the organisers received and what, if any, changes occur in 2024.

I haven't raced Cairns so I'll defer your knowledge there, but finishers have dropped to 829 this year from about 1065 in 2019 pre-covid. If that drops significantly next year, I can't imagine it hails well for the future of the full-distance in Cairns. Will Ironman run a full-distance for less than 700?

I haven't raced Busso since the inaugural IMWA, so I'll also defer there to those who know the race well, but finishers are down to 1075 from about 1215 pre-covid.

If we do lose Port Macq as a full-distance race, Australia will cease to have IM venue within a driveable distance from its largest population centres. Port Macq is a comfortable enough drive from Sydney/Newcastle/Canberra, Brisbane/Gold Coast, and for some, even from Melbourne/rural Vic.

Cairns and Busso are long flights from Sydney and Melbourne. Taupo would be an easier option for many from Melbourne or Sydney, particularly with it being in March. If the simplest option for most of the target market for IM in Australia is flying to another country to compete, the outlook for maintaining a viable domestic interest in the full-distance doesn't look healthy.

I answer from Spain,
it is difficult to say which is the future of Ironman in a so far away country as Australia, but let me imagine:
Ironman has a lot of 70.3 in Australia, and they can mantain 1 Ironman /year by rotation (as it is done in US with some races). This will lead to promote the participation of 70.3 races and only one Ironman to race.

I don't know how the 70.3 are distributed, but they are a big number of them... I don't know if all have a good participation, but they may reduce the number or change by multisport events.

To be fair, I am zero interested in multisport event. I prefer much more a Ironman or 70.3 only events.

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Cairns has all the tourist stuff as well so there is stacks of non-tri-geek stuff to do for families during race week or athletes post race to make it an actual family holiday.Plus the huge rang of accommodation makes it one of the best locations in the entire region for relative value for money travelling.If I was to pick two Ironman's to do again in our region they would be Cairns or Langkawi both of which I have done multiple times.

Busso was a bit of a chore and as we all know West Oz might as well be a different country. :-) I have flown across the Pacific 19 times for races so no biggie there. Lots of people use it an excuse to do the touristy thing as well.

Maybe I'm more than a whining old guy under a falling sky?

Maybe I've been in the sport long enough to have some perspective as to where it is now? Whose seen the ebb and flow of demograhics not just within the sport, but also within other endurance sports of which triathlon competes for a market.

I agree with you that 70.3 isn't doing too badly, and as I mentioned, I think it will remain a bit-player on Ironman corporation's expansive portfolio of events in Australia.

A discussion of the future of the IM distance in Aust is a valid conversation. There's no value of putting on rose-coloured glasses and burying our heads in the sand.

As mentioned in my previous post, Port isn't going as strongly as you might think.

As for "wanting to burn the house down on my way out", I'm comfortable with and proud of what I've contributed to sport in this country.

You thrown out a blanket statement on the state of IM in Australia based soley on racing Port Mac, never raced Cairns and once in WA years ago...

Port Mac is special to many people but lets be honest, all you ever hear about that course is how sh!t the roads are, even before the changes. Pot holes, rough bitumen etc.

Cairns and Busso are both awesome venues for their own individual reasons, and great spots to drag the family along to for a quick holiday. I'd much rather go Taupo than Port Mac.

As for fluctuations in numbers there are always ebs and flows, and you are comparing covid numbers where a lot of people couldn't even bloody get to a pool. Numbers will probably be a little flat for a while with inflation biting and rising airfares but sheesh, I bet if you could put an IM on in Melb it would sell out in days..

I hope it's a fluctuation in numbers, but it's hard to see where the increased numbers are coming from.

I mentioned in another thread the aging we've seen in IM demographics. In days of yore, the big age groups at Forster were M25-29 and M30-35. Now we're relying on crusty dudes in their 50s as the backbone of long distance events. Very few of those will have the capability or desire to go long in a decade's time. At least when you're attracting a young audience, people can leave and return to the sport decades down the track.

I think you're on to something when the significance of the change from Half Ironman to 70.3 being a marker point. Ironman was THE distance and the event. The event was nurtured because without it, Ironman in Australia would cease to exist. The qualifying series of 12 events all over Australia helped nurture not just Ironman Aust, but triathlon more generally.

Now "Ironman" in Australia is essentially whatever will make the name money. If the Sydney Half Marathon or Cole Classic Ocean Swim is more marketable and profitable for the company, those events are bigger priorities to "Ironman" than Ironman Aust and the history it carries in the sport. Neither Ironman Aust or triathlon more generally are priority concerns for the company, beyond what is necessary to optimally extract a financial payload from the former.

And yes, we probably won't have too much comment on the thread from those outside of Aus. My original post was started as a reply to another thread, but I thought I'd expand on it and launch a new thread to capture the few Aussies on ST.

Pretty sure that was the year my better half was drunk and puking after the carbo party. She still blames Bobby for that one.

Remember not too many years ago when we did have an IM in Melbourne and it did sell out in days? As did Port. Busso and Cairns were on the calendar as well.
Last season, IM race numbers have been down in all full-distance events and entries available right up to the last minute. Less than 2900 finishes (as opposed to finishers) from the three events in Australia last season. Those stats don't lie, no matter whether I was at those races or not.

You claim there's been fluctuations in participant numbers in IM in Aust in the past. At Busso or Cairns? When were these? Were they as large or as uniform across events as we're seeing in recent years? I'm familiar with Port's numbers; a steady increase to a plateau after 25 years, the infamous drop in 2011 when they restricted entry to only 1000, the resultant panic-buying bounce back the following year when they returned to a normal field size........

You've correctly identified some the problems with long course triathlon in Australia. Most participants can't do a race without investing in family holiday and flying to Cairns, Busso or Taupo. Some such as you don't consider Port an acceptable race, (but somehow, I'm the bad guy here). How many other comparable sports are so inaccessible to their target market?

We may be yet to see a return to "normality" and the full impact of covid, but we can't ignore that other sports have bounced back to pre-covid participation as strongly as ever.

IMWA's drop in participation has been similar to Cairns or Port, though it's still attracting just over 1000 finishers, so it will be interesting to see how December's race numbers pan out. With Ironman no longer staging Busso70.3 in May, their marketing mightn't catch as many of those athletes as previously.

It's difficult to attribute IMWA's 2022 fall in numbers to covid as much as the other races, given how heavily it draws on WA athletes whose lives were largely unaffected by the pandemic. Neither am I convinced the current economic situation is a good explanation for a December 2022 race that people generally commit to months ahead. The popularity of other distance events in WA like the Rottnest swim hasn't waned.

Since you've taken an interest, here's a brief summary of Ironman in Australia.

Three full distance races, with each now having a 70.3 on the same day:

• Ironman Australia - (May) Port Macquarie, previously Forster, since 1985. About 4 hours drive from Sydney. Approx 950 finishers this year.

• Ironman Cairns - (June), Cairns, since 2012. About a 2 to 4 hour flight for most triathletes in Australia. Approx 800 finishers this year.

• Ironman Western Australia - (December) Busselton, since 2004. About a 4 hour flight to Perth, plus a 3 hour drive and 3 hour time zone difference for most triathletes in Australia. Approx 1070 finishers last year.

Five other 70.3 events are held in the eastern states, most relatively close to larger cities.

There are no independent ironman-distance events in Australia. There are a two or three independent races of about half ironman distance but they are rare.

Race numbers are declining at full-distance events, while the average age of competitors increases.

Thanks a lot for the information,

I think that covid impacted a lot, to travel to Australia is even more expensive (and it is far away).
The Dream to Kona is not valid for this year. So the only reason to travel to Australia to race is 1)race course 2)touristic "sport"

I would love to visit your country, but speacially after covid racing abroad is so expensive.

We don't get that many international athletes coming to our races now days, mainly just a few from Asia. As you say, we're a long way away.

Back in the '90s it was different at IM Aust. Fewer races IM races elsewhere, and better money for pros, paying 15 deep at IM Aust. Not just IM, but also some short distance guys and girls would also spend summer here training and picking up money on the Australian circuit.

We used to get an enormous contingent of Japanese for IM Aust. There was even a separate race briefing for the Japanese. A friend of mine was their host, bus driver and interpreter.

All that changed in the 2000s as Ironman picked up more qualifying races across Europe and Asia.

i think that the future of Ironman Australia is very Linked to global Ironman Policies from New Ceo, but also as you said, local Ironman policies, to try to promote triathlon


But never the less: ironman is an endurance sport that need a lot of effort, and it is expensive if you need to travel, and now a days is more expensive. Ironman shall offer more for less

I think that having a 70.3 race on the same day as a full IM, is a smart move by IM. The incremental cost of running a full, alongside a 70.3, would not be great and means that a full IM with smaller numbers is still viable.

My local is IMWA. I would imagine that the total number of participants 70.3 and full, would exceed the total number of participants from when IMWA used to sell out.

Not sure I agree with you there.

Yes, on paper staging a half and full distance would save on items like traffic management, marque hire and spread the effort on red tape, However I don’t think the local athletes would like it. Many did both events. Many more did just the half.

The half in May was a great time of the year. It represented the end of a long season, just before it got cold and wet. It was rarely too hot. You had all the shorter events to hone your form on and a big chunk of fine weather to build fitness.

December can be scorching. It gives only three decent months of moderate/warm weather and probably few races to fine tune in. I think it also takes away from the race season following, as the half was always the climax.

Plus with Busso (IMWA) you no longer swim out and around the pier.

That, to me, anyway, is iconic when I think about that race. Glad I got to do it the last year they went around the pier even if it the waves were pretty big and it was choppy AF

My Aussie athletes have complained about their racing opportunities shrinking as most would do an IM and several/all/most the 70.3s in AUS.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I remember when it didn't used to be a pack ride
Sadly, not been true for many years

Did it start with the full jetty swim? I did ‘04 (inaugural) and ‘07. One was the full jetty, the other two laps that went out about half way. I could not remember which was which (thought the first was two lap) but it would be natural to sell that first race as being out and around.

Eagle eyed spectators could also follow swimmers the whole way.

Maybe there is an opportunity:

Get back to the one race, there are enough IM addicted people to fill one race. Run a 70.3 series as the qualifying races, making all racing much more meaningful.

• IM has too many races with fields pro and AG too thinly spread (I'm sure there is a business model WTC has which explains the economics of lots of races). From the health of IM in OZ a 2000 plus field single IM would bring back some of the atmosphere that Forster had when it was the one show in town. Will leave venue to discussion.
• Concentrate the numbers from all three races, yes some west aussies will stay in WA and not race.
• Run qualifying, this made the half series really fun and appeals to the Aussie spirit of everything having to be a contest, tough and a bit of knock down fight, compared with say just do a half to validate.
• In turn it gets the numbers up in halfs as people have to do more than one and have a crack to get into IM and maybe brings back really good races, eg Shepparton lost to the calendar due to WTC expansion, Shep was scheduled really well to qualify and then train as was Canberra.

Best place, for athletes it kinda has to be NSW, where? Not sure, Cairns has lots of positives as does Busso for Internationals, but for east coast aussies, I'm thinking:

• Port, noting issues.
• Husky,
• Mooloolaba/Gold Coast

Mooloolaba Gold Coast/Noosa Sunshine coast help address accommodation and over crowding of small towns

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In the mid to late 90's there were "qualifying races". One year I qualified at an Olympic Distance in Currumbin on the Gold Coast and another year at a Half Ironman on Nth Stradbroke Island. It made it much fairer for tri-geeks around the country as before that people from the big tri-clubs in Melbourne and Sydney had acces to paper "entry forms" well before people like me in Cairns who,by the time we filled ours in found the IM Oz full yet again.

Agree, thought the qualifying was good and helped improve the IM as we all worked pretty hard to get there. Certainly focussed me when I realised sub 5 had to be done to be in with a shout an that in turn focussed training.

Only downside may have been being drained before the Im Build. Think SHeppaton and Canberra were last on calendar though which left plenty time to get ready.