"Just too bad you brought in cheating to this topic. It can be seen as trying to divert away from how serious assaulting a female is."

i underestimated the ability of a threshold number of slowtwitchers to hold multiple ideas in their heads. my bad.

"BUT, if Jack is this changed person who you defended him as, then clearly, he would understand this is a BIG deal and should resign."

again, dave, i laid down some facts as i saw them (and see them) for consideration, but what do you mean by "defended him." because, if i've actually made a call on whether i think jack should fight to stay, or resign his seat, i don't remember doing so.

"I again ask, how was this hidden from the membership before the last vote?"

i don't know. i'm still trying to get my arms around what happened back then, and what the board is doing today in hindsight and looking forward. it's going to get uglier before it gets less ugly. but i don't know the answer to your question.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

" Some of the things you've said on this thread in regards to women and the treatment of women are incredibly tasteless and troubling."

travis, you keep writing this. but if you could give me an example of what it is to which you refer, what i wrote that is incredibly tasteless and troubling, maybe i'd see the error of my ways, offer a retraction and an apology.

"painted yourself as someone who on some level can rationalize and condone punching a woman in the face until she's bruised and bleeding."

is it possible that you're just reading that, even though i haven't written that?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

How did even making this statement have anything to do with this issue? I can only take it to minimize what happened. There are tons of things each of us could bring up that we feel is as bad as what happened. But none of these opinions have anything to do with the issue in this thread and only diverts the focus away from the topic. Now, maybe this is what you intended or maybe not. But, that is how I am reading folks posts. The focus should only be about should a person who has attacked a female be allowed to stay on the board. I could care less about the legal stuff which is what you have mainly talked about so far. It is about what your opinion about should he be on the board, period. Not hidden behind any legal stuff or your friendship with him. You pride yourself being above being biased, but in this case, some of your comments come of just like Jacks, not understanding the issue and how some of us are just asking folks in a leadership role can be held to a higher standard.

So yes, what is your advice to Jack. Personally? From a member of our Tri community? These may be different answers.

And again, I am not trying to judge Jack. He will meet the maker at the end and will see what happens. Should he be on the board, well yes, some of us seem to have pretty strong thoughts. Waiting for yours.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

"So bottom line, no matter what rules, etc can be hidden behind, the angle you seem to ignore is the ethics of this."

i don't think i am ignoring the ethics of this.

"You keep bringing up his wife. In my experience with friends, the advice and support I gave them was to leave and start a new life."

that may well be what my advice is as well. i just don't feel it appropriate to share with you all what my private advice is to jack and his wife.

"you keep talking about by laws this, or legally this, but having read your posts for a decade, just seems that you staying away from what most are posting, which is resign because of ethics, you are too close to this person."

nevertheless, the fact is, jack has not resigned although a lot of people have asked him to. we are, right now, faced with a very thorny near future. it's going to get uglier, messier, more public, more embarrassing. if you want to yell at jack, you go right ahead. that hasn't worked, if what you want is for jack to resign. what i consider important, the outcomes that i want, the best future for everybody, constrains me to take a different approach. i don't at all mind what you write. i don't mind that you call for jack's resignation. i think the very BEST post i saw on this thread, sometime back, was someone recognizing jack's service over the past 15 years, maybe even thanking him for it, and then asking for his resignation.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I am so sorry to say I tend to agree. Over the years I have only seen Dan a few times seems to let friendships color his ethics. This is the second. Now I might do the same thing if it were my friend, but luckily I am not in a leadership position.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Dan, you are a man who never once in the history of this website has been able to admit he was wrong about something so why should this time be any different. The list of people both on here and social media that have been troubled by your reaction to this is extensive. At the end of the day nothing really changes for you, you're still king of your ST castle, but stuff like this isn't forgotten quickly. This is going to spread beyond the tiny triathlon market very soon and even more eyeballs will be viewing the response of those at the top. You've made your position crystal clear.

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I have been known to bring things into a topic that in hindsight I should not have so I am not one to talk much. :o(

All I can offer is that many have posted from what I have read, and me also, is the tone of your response. It did come off as "defending him", but it seems not is the words we could prove it to you. Same with Jacks responses. Since there seems to be many who have posted feeling this way, all I can offer, as you have to folks over the years, is consider reading what has been written and consider that some of us are reading it in a way that you did not intent, but came of in a way it has.

Yep, if the board knew of this before elections and did not let the membership know, does more of our board have dirt on their hands? So as you stated, its going to get uglier. This is the bottom line as to why many of us are asking him to do the right thing for our USAT, not what Jack feels is right for him. And we are still waiting to hear your answer about what you feel Jack should be as a leader in our sport, not his friend. Sorry for having to ask this way, you have always seemed to be above having to ask something like this which is why I respect you.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Wow, I would not have gone this far. It is tough not to defend a friend. I do agree Dan needs to step back a little and take some inputs and how a lot of us are taking his comments.

Amazing how the action of one person can impact so many!!!

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

travis thomason, when you simply insult people you give courage to the other side of whatever it is you're fighting against. you and i may, in fact, be on the same side, broadly speaking. i just don't think that constantly insulting, without adding anything of texture or value or elucidation, serves a purpose, if an identifiable end result is the aim.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

So I'm going to venture to say no, he's not going to provide an example but would rather stir the pot on twitter. Just a guess, though.

Okay, I'll bite. Slowman, I'm with you on a lot of what you've said here with one huge exception. Drawing ANY parallel between physical spousal abuse and cheating on a spouse was a mistake, in my opinion. If you want to rant about cheating spouses (men and women) that's fine. It would just be better to do it in another thread. If statistics are to be believed a huge number of posters on this site, men and women, have cheated. Yet, the overwhelming number of those people would likely never strike someone else, let alone their spouse. Probably all of us have friends who have cheated at one point in their long lives. Usually, they're still friends. Most of us probably wouldn't stay friends with a man who beats his wife (or a woman who beats her husband.) By saying you think spousal cheating is perhaps on par with spousal physical abuse you unwittingly diminish the seriousness of spousal physical abuse. At least that's my opinion and probably the opinion of many others.

"And we are still waiting to hear your answer about what you feel Jack should be as a leader in our sport, not his friend."

did you see where steve oh asked this question a few posts up? did you read my response?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Truer words never spoken is regards to insulting people.

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How about this: answer Dan's serious and honest question (highlighted above for your convenience), or shut up. You made the statement, so back it up. At the least, it will tell us where you stand on things tasteless and troubling.

As I indicated earlier, my wife of 18 years had a hard time last night determining which of spousal abuse or marital infidelity is worse. She's highly educated and a black belt in karate (no shrinking violet her!). So if you are referencing the suggestion of cheating on your spouse being comparable to spousal abuse as tasteless and troubling, be assured that not everyone agrees with your view.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

You're smart so you must see that comparing two actions that in most peoples eyes, even if not in yours, and by law are completely different in severity will be seen as an attempt to lessen the seriousness of his actions. Why even bring up that comparison in the first place if it was not an attempt to put a perspective on what he did?

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BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

That's fascinating. My wife has a Phd and runs ultras. Her opinion is that much of what Dan was written here is extremely troubling. Who cares. That's her opinion and it differs from your wife's. There are people who are troubled by Dan's response to this and those who aren't. Doesn't really matter in the end. This is going to play out in the public and the fallout will be what it is. People's opinions of public figures will be based on their response to events. You can continue trying to shout down people who don't agree with you instead of getting at the real issue of why Jack is still in a position of leadership and why another public figure is supporting him. You're insignificant to the end result as am I.

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I'm not shouting you down: I'm doing exactly the opposite by giving you the opportunity to specifically call out the tasteless and troubling statements Dan has made.


Why won't you do that?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

It's been made abundantly clear by myself and others. Carry on.

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Yeah, right. So clear that Dan has to ask you to be specific. He (and I) must be really dense.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Apparently.

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Just in case anybody's late to the thread and didn't have time to read the whole thing, here's a recap:

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Jack, you should resign for two reasons,

1. You are not an asset to the organization at this point, you are an anchor.

2. Resigning from this high profile position will allow you and your wife the opportunity to work on your relationship and your anger issues outside of the public eye.

You have to know it's the right thing to do, for the USA Triathlon organization, your wife and your relationship.

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#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

My name is Zach Pratt. I'm against men hitting women. I believe that all men that do hit women should make themselves known and if they work for a group of people or represent a group of people, then they should offer to step down.

For any man that has hit a woman, I hope they get help, I hope they submit themselves to authorities, I hope they let anyone they represent know about their situation and I hope they allow for themselves to voluntarily step down from any position of authority.

There should be a vote and policy for this conduct in all forms of organizations.

I'm sad by most posts in this thread.

ETA- My opinion does not represent the opinion of Team Zoot.

Excellent post (arguably the best on the thread). It is a shame that the thread has taken off in the tangent re: spousal abuse vs. infidelity, as dew have completely lost track of the issue at hand.

@ Tri-Banter: you don't understand what a "witch hunt" is. Witches weren't real and innocent people paid the price. Jack Weiss is an admitted abuser. There is no "witch" in this scenario.

FWIW, I sent a letter today to USAT asking them to revise their by laws and continue to implore Jack Weiss to resign.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Agreed, this precisely sums up my thoughts. If I had a friend who was cheating on his wife I wouldn't be thrilled, I might even say something about it, but I could still be friends with him.

If that same friend was beating the crap out of his wife, I would immediately cut ties with him, and highly suggest to her to get the police involved. If I actually caught him beating his wife, I would definitely step in and beat his ass and/or call the cops.

Not only that but cheating is highly immoral, wherease physical abuse is highly illegal. So in my opinion, and the eyes of the law, they are both very different scenarios