this is a reality in all sports. it's tough for those who try desperately/want desperately to be more than they are.

it's no secret, but it does suck badly.

kitty

Not only reality in all sports, but in all of life. My wife pulled a 4.0 GPA in college (molecular biology with chemistry and math minors) and graduated with $10k in the bank left over from all her scholarships and grants. You'd piss your pants if you knew how little she actually studied.

True, but how will you know which one of these people you are, or what your limits are without thorough self-experimentation, and tons of hard work? Better than buying new genes would be genetic profiling that would allow you to customize a training protocol based on your body "type." Get to work on that Mr. Arbiter, please.

Ken

It's been my belief that after about a year of dedicated training for an endurace event you have a decent idea of where your potential lies. Improvement is like an asymptotic curve to your potential. At first the gains are huge, but as time goes on, the slope shallows out and improvement happens less frequntly and in smaller amounts, until one day you arrive at the doorstep of your "potential".

After a year of dedicated work (emphasize dedicated), you have already made the most performace gains you are likely ever going to make. Each suceeding year of purposeful training you will improve, but the gains will never be as great or come as often as the first year.

While you have not achieved your potential, you can definitely see where it lies. Some people are fortunate and their potential and their dreams lie in the same vicinity. Others have to come to grips and make peace with what hand they were dealt.

This is the hardest part for alot of people.

BTW, People who win or podium in the first race they ever enter make me sick. Pure jealosy, I know. Please allow me some vices.

My .017Euro

Agreed.

I was fortunate to learn this very early on in my teens when I ran with what was one of the best running clubs in my country. I was doing the same training as these other guys. Working out just as hard. Focusing just as much, but they were still beating me in the races.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

good point!!

"I suspect China leads the way in that field Get to work on that Mr. Arbiter, please. Please, Dr Arbiter "

My sincere apologies Dr. Arbiter. I'm curious- why do you say China leads the way in genetic profiling for athletic purposes? I'm not doubting, just curious about what's known in this area.

Ken

One thing that almost every athlete has available to them is Respiratory Gas Analysis. You can get your VO2Max, vV02Max, AT, etc. This will give you a good idea of what your potential might be. A lot of athletes never maximize their potential since they don't know how to train, and RGA can help by also giving you a better idea of where you should be for AT and other workouts.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Pure hunch. China is known to have state-sponsored schemes to identify athletic potential at a young age, so my guess is that they'd be the first to use genetic profiling. Whether I've hit the mark or missed it by a long way, come Beijing the USA will no longer be king of the olympics. China will rule.

"come Beijing the USA will no longer be king of the olympics. China will rule."

You may very well be correct, but for genetic profiling to play a role, it would need to be in place now to be useful in selecting/enhancing performance for 2008. Interesting thoughts nonetheless.

Ken

My mother used to tell me that I could be anything, do anything I wanted, as long as I wanted it badly enough and was willing to work hard.

I cannot describe how disappointed I was, when, at about 7-8 years old, I realized I'd never really be able to jump over a tall building in a single bound.

She then modified that statement, by telling me I could do anything, be anything I wanted, within reason. When I asked her what "within reason" meant, she replied, "You ask a lot of questions for a ditch-digger."

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

...the difference is you went on to perform sub 10hr (9hr?) ironmans on sub 10 hrs/wk training!

I think you are leaving out another critical element in determining athletic success - the mental one. Training diligently/smartly, regardless of talent, does not necessarily produce a podium finish unless the will to win/finish is there. I know from my own results (16 years of multisport racing) that - aside from mechanical/injury issues - it was my attitude on race day that determined how I finished. When I had self doubts - for a variety of reasons (What? I have another 12 miles to run!) - my performance suffered and no "hardware."

FWIW

"It is never too late to fix your childhood!" Tom Robbins

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Dean Wilson
http://www.anaerobiczone.com
Bicycle Protection Indoors & Out

Daniel's running formula puts something like this ( i'm paraphrasing from memory):

"There are 4 types of runners. Gifted ones without focus or motivation, non-gifted ones with lots of motivation, non-gifted ones without motivation and gifted runners with lots of motivation. The first group frustrate their coaches, the second group frustrate themselves, the third group should go find another sport. Only the last group have the potential to become champions."

"At the end of the day, you're going to be limited by genetics - and money* or time can't change them."

isn't that kind of like saying: "at the end of the day, you are going to be limited by death." Yes we are all going to die and yes a large majority of people will never be able to run a 32min 10k or do a sub 9 IM, no matter how hard they train or what gadgets they buy, but the question then becomes, SO WHAT?!? Does that mean everyone but Simon Lessing and co. should throw up their hands and go out and eat five tubs of ice-cream and get wasted? Or would you rather go out for a long ride with a couple of buddies and have a few sprints on the hills? I for one will see you out on the ride.

WELL, YOU DO GOTTA REMEMBER THAT WITH GOD ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!

KEEP THE FAITH MY BRETHEREN!

I disagree strongly with this view and its the one thing I see over and over in this sport - it takes longer than a year to start to get an idea. I think it usually takes about 3 years, especially if you start as an adult. Most people give up the "dedicated" part of the equation long before they start to see where its possible to go. Slowtwitch/Endurance sports are so much different than fast twitch/speed sports in this regard - finding your potential. That's why its so important to do this stuff in a way that you enjoy the process. If you do then you will keep doing it long enough to find out what you can do.

We live in a drive-through world now don't we. The common perceptions of how long it takes to get/acheive something are changing all of the time.

Thank you for what would appear to be the dissenting opinion in this thread. As a 47yo with only one year of 'dedicated' training I sure hope I haven't seen my pb or even a significant percentage of my pb. My coach, who has alot of experience with older athletes has methodicaly kept most of my training zone 1. I've completed a 1/2 (mop) but some of my brief forays into zone 2-3 training have resulted in injury, a swimmer's shoulder last fall, hernia this past spring and itb knee problems this summer. I enjoy the training but suspect it will take some time before I can absorb the higher intensities required to improve performance. I sincerely hope I haven't seen 'most' of my potential but even if I have I'm enjoying the trip.
Peter

While skid's view might be the "dissenting view", is the one that it is right.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I will show you all how the world's less talented triathlete can go sub 9h with purely dedication.
vinnie
PS: by the way, that's the easiest way people faces life's challenges isn't it? ''I'm not suited to do it, I give up.'' WTF? Stop complaining

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Vinnie Santana, Multisport Coach
http://www.ironguides.net
* * * Your best is our business. * * *

The worlds less talented athlete can't go sub 9h because if he did it, he wouldn't be the worlds less talented triathlete.

One thing is what you want to believe or what you want others to believe. Another thing altogether is reality.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I'm going to call bullshit on the 1 year of training reveals your potential thing. All you know after one year is whether its going to be hard or easy to get where you want to go. After my first year of competative running I had droped my 5k pr from 24 to 22 minutes. After four years to 17 minutes. After 7 years to 14:52 on over 100 miles per week. Now after a 2 year lay off I am hitting times in the 15 min range off 35 miles per week. Long term adaptation is possible.