I have been using Craft tops for years. I don't know the model number or name but I have two generations of their cold weather tops and bottoms. I sweat a lot myself and find they work well until I stop moving, then they are useless but work fine until stopping. I live in NYC and run outside thru the winter.

Sugoi Windwall180, Windwall 360, Firewall 180, Firewall 360

Sounds like you could use a more breathable lightweight jacket! (I haven't found anything yet that I'd swear by in that regard, have one lightweight running jacket that is decently breathable but is still subject to sleeves getting soaked inside).

What about multiple thin breathable layers, like long-sleeve T/short-sleeve T (in polyester or some other tech fabric) for 20-30 in light wind or long/long if it's windier? Below 20, I sometimes layer a merino wool sweater over a poly T-shirt (either short or long sleeve).

I had looked at Craft, amongst other brands, and couldn't make heads or tails of which fabrics/products would actually be warm or warm enough. Obviously, everyone has different comfort/insulation needs, but I'm still disappointed that so few brands even try to give some sort of warmth/temperature scale to compare their own products to each other.

I do have a good selection of possible layers, but my general issue is that the insulation ends up backwards: Too much on my trunk and not enough on my arms. My trunk always gets warm, and its rare that I haven't unzipped a zippable running top within 2-3 miles. My arms, on the other hand, are often still cold feeling at the same time. I've even tried just adding cycling arm warmers under a top I wear for 30-40°, but they just ended up bunched below my elbows. Might have to try that again with different arm warmers.

The underarmor Cold Gear long sleeve thermals are my go to for cold running. They don't slide up, breath, warm in a range of temps, and can easily be layered for when it gets REALLY cold.

A pair of Seal Skinz gloves is what I wear to keep my hands warm.

Another vote for UA.

Also a heavy sweater while running, and I like to pair it with a Nike vest to keep the core warm but not overheat

sub 25 = UA Cold gear
sub 35 = Uniqlo heattech

Thanks for the tip (and those who seconded it). I'll give the UA a try. Oddly, tops (I can't stop calling them jerseys in my head) are the thing I've struggled to find most. I'm good with tights, gloves (4 different pairs for different temperatures all the way to LG lobster mitt gloves), and head gear (usually just a PI headband). I come from a cycling background, so a lot of that transferred over, but running in cycling jerseys just doesn't seem to work out well because of the cut and elastic waist. I have one old winter cycling jersey (Voler) that I'm going to try to take the elastic out of to see if that helps it at all. It is plenty warm and quite breathable/wicking, but it rides up while running.

I am a heavy sweater (3L+/Hr) and while I don't get down to 20 degrees I do run in 30 and find 2XU has excellent products. I'll usually throw on a running shirt and one of their thermal jackets or their thermal compression long sleeve and then a running hoody. Works great for me.

Many years ago I picked up a Salomon half zip off a clearance rack. I don’t know it’s intended purpose, but it has been great for what you describe. It has a thin, soft-shell type front that is wind proof and water resistant. The underside of the arms, armpits, and back of the shoulders are different, more mesh like material. I usually wear it without a base layer in that 20-30 range.
Wind the wind blows you can definitely feel the breeze through the non-wind proof materials. You may search for something like that.

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yeah UA cold gear is great

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Any chance PI is going to get back into running clothes? Would something like this PI (closeout?) top be good in the 20's or colder?

https://www.swimoutlet.com/...8141622/?color=50246

Try ditching the jacket if you are that wet after 3 miles in fairly cold temps, just use the 'thin top' and maybe a s/s tech tee underneath. Or try a lighter/breathable jacket that you can remove/unzip when you start getting warm, many are pack-able and will fit in a pocket or easily carried in your hand (Patagonia Houdini for example).

If you don't mind, what kind of jacket are you running in?

Well, that is the thing... I'm not running in a jacket because the few times I have tried last year, I ended up carrying it awkwardly or spending half the run trying to pack it while still running. Closest I came last year was a wind shell I have for cycling which has a full back vent and zip-off sleeves/pit vents that I had opened. Ditched it within a mile on a sub 20 degree day because it was stifling even 90% unzipped. I end up just not bothering and wearing the warmest top I currently have, but below the mid 20's on a nice (sunny, no wind) day, it doesn't keep me quite warm enough. That is why I'm asking for advice for a no-jacket-needed option.

I just looked through the UA options. Does anyone know how the ColdGear Base 4 compares to the ColdGear Storm Cyclone or the ColdGear Reactor? I'm hoping one of those three is a good match, but can't tell which is warmest.

Go with layers! Craft active extreme longsleve with a wind jacket on top. I have a couple of wind jackets from Gore. The tight fitting base layer will transport the sweat from your body and the wind jacket will protect from the wind chill and prevent icing.

Works well for me. Sometimes I even have a third layer if I am going long and slow or if it is very windy. I sweat profusely in the heat but significantly less in the cold, at least with this “set up”.

Adding to the above; if the wind jacket is too warm you can wear a second layer in wool instead. Chose a wool layer with a bit of weight. However, since it is breathable you can experience icing. If this combo is too cold Craft has a base layer with wind stop front. I use this version for cycling.

I have THIS PI thermal run top and I really like it, although I'm not sure it would be warm enough for me in the 20's. The best part about it is the black part around the neck stays nice and snug without feeling like a turtleneck or chocking you in the front. The kicker is I got it on clearance for like $15 when PI was dissolving their run inventory and now it's $60 on Amazon.

I personally need more than one layer for temps that cold. I have an older Nike Sphere Dry jacket and I wear a wool base layer under it when it gets down into the 20's.

DeSoto poly pro top is really well designed and comfortable for me in those temps as long as the wind isn't whipping. With high winds I add a layer. It has a nice watch opening allowing wrists to stay covered and a long zipper to vent when turning downwind. Back pocket is perfect for phone. Can you tell I really like the shirt?

That DeSoto looks like a good option but it is currently sold out in my size (small). Thanks for the suggestion.

Try a lightweight wind vest with a full-mesh back- pairs perfectly with a long-sleeve tech shirt. Try a few different weights/weaves of shirts as well. I have a few lighter, cool-max mesh-type LS shirts and then a few heavier weight thermal run tops and paired with a vest I am good with one of these combos to around 20 degrees or so. The lighter weight shirts also pair well over or under a short sleeve wicking top as well, which should cover you down into the mid 30s. Only time I wear a jacket is if it is raining, and then I am normally on the trainer.

I am a big fan of sporthill, but I have similar shirts from nike, asics, etc:

https://www.sporthill.com/...longsleeve-tee-2018/

Also like the Nike Miler line of shirts:

https://www.nike.com/...op-zj96js/AJ7568-438

It is unfortunate that PI is no longer making running gear. I was rummaging through my winter cycling collection and realized that the warmest jersey that I own, which I've worn in the low teens comfortably, is a PI thermal. It is super fleecy on the inside and more like a softshell on the outside. If the closeout PI running tops (here and here) are similar material, I'll likely go with one of those (probably the second one since I'm partial to a 1/4 zip to vent it when I need to).

I really appreciate everyone's tips, and while I'm still resistant to layering for the reasons I explained above, I sincerely appreciate all of you offering your knowledge and advice.

Merino wool - Icebreaker and Smartwool are both really good. There is nothing better for regulating temperature, and keeping you comfortable even if you're sweating and it's freezing outside. They are expensive, and well worth the investment. Go find a good black friday deal. Signed, a Canadian who tried all the cheaper stuff first and will never go back.