Some athletes need to be pushed beyond their confort level to improve. Others need to be brought down from what they think they can handle in order to improve. Do you think you know what type you are?

of course i know which type i am. i need to be pushed beyond my comfort level.

now... if i can get rid of these nagging injuries, the recurring respiratory infections, and get rid of that always tired feeling, i'll push way beyond my comfort level and break through that plateau i've been on for years.... ;)

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70.3 is the cousin to OD........ Ironman has no relatives! -Simon Lessing

reading paulo post, i think i'm the type that need to be push out of my comfort zone in the moment....he is been doing a good job at it...and only 4.5 days to go....after that....i will have a good 3 weeks of taper to absorb all this....i m very intriged to see how it will be.....i suspect the taper wont be as easy as i think....my guess is it will be more!!!!!!!! than what i m use too....

but as to more is more....i have done a lot and been out of my comfort zone for a few weeks now...it s definitly not easy to do without support of teammates or coaches near you.....good luck to all of you in the last big workouts leading up to hawaii.....

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

So more is more, more or less, unless less is more or more is less?

Got it, Thanks!

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

I think it's pretty clear that he was just using the phrase to contrast with the "less is more" cliche that has pervaded so many different areas--lifestyle, fashion, landscaping, design, etc. I don't think as the smartasscoach that he expected so many people to take this literally and thus this excellent post was born (Although personally, I had no trouble understanding the first post).

I will say that you forgot about people in my category--I don't push myself too hard, then get periodic episodes of guilt about it and overtrain myself into some kind of injury.

Thank you smartasscoach--I'm not worthy.

Thanks

jaretj

No, if less is more, think how much more MORE will be!

aargh! My head hurts.

seriously, this thread makes several good points. I'm pretty sure I fall into both categories in that I never go hard enough in training on the bike (and thus get my worst placing on the bike) and am incapable of doing an easy run (and get all my non-crash related injuries from running). Swimming? More like some is some with me.

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

I know we haven't always seen eye to eye in the past but I just want to say - past schmast!

This is a great post. Thanks for putting it up. Sensible and helpful.

Nice work.

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kiwipat

per ardua ad astra

Some athletes need to be pushed beyond their confort level to improve. Others need to be brought down from what they think they can handle in order to improve. Do you think you know what type you are?

I'm pretty sure I'm the second type... I frequently need to be told to rest. :P

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Nice post, Paulo.

Jonnyo - I don't know which Seinfeld character you would be but I can picture Paulo as the "Soup Nazi": No day off for you! ;)

Good luck to the whole group with the training and the race.

Cheers,
Alex

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First with the head, then with the heart. -- HG

Dear all,

Thanks for the kind words, I really LOVE your posts :-)



jaretj: No, I don't have a way to quantitatively track training stress for swim-bike-run. It is "just" my experience, but "just" is a word you used, which means you underestimate this. You shouldn't.

gtingley: You were one of the people that didn't get what I meant with my initial post. You didn't get the meaning of this one either. However, you are the one saying that you're going to follow the "more is MORE" approach... Just remember that periodization is a pretty broad concept, and that "traditional periodization" is not the only way to do it. For example, Daniels approach to running training uses periodization, although it's not according to the traditional model.

some peeps can handle more and some cant....everybody needs to find their "MORE"!!! or more or less!

Crap, I just confused myself!~

Os parabéns, grande artigo muito bem escrito. Fiz digo que eu amo seus postes :)

More is More you should get two days off!!!!

More rest and more base = better performance for me at this point.

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~~~ ><)))))))))))))))))))))))*> ~~~~~ ><}}}}> ~~~~~~
Marc

http://www.triformore.com

Thank you.

I place a high value on experience.

jaretj

So how do you know when more is truly MORE, and not LESS, or JUST THE SAME?

his "experience" . . . don't "misunderestimate" it, either ;-)

In all seriousness, though, TSS for cycling is very useful; and Dr. Phil's TSS system for running looks promising. Has someone devised a similar system for swimming that you know of?

  You bastard Paulo...this is a bit late!!! I just did a 12hr ride on tues and a 3hr swim/4hr run on wed because I thought more is more. Now I cannot walk or sleep and I crave poutine 24-7 :( I'm very confused...

Mujika has successfully used a time in zone x weighting factor approach (think Polar Exertion Score, only based on swimming velocity relative to LT, not heart rate).

<Some athletes need to be pushed beyond their confort level to improve. Others need to be brought down from what they think they can handle in order to improve. Do you think you know what type you are? > Unfortunately I'm both types.:-( I find,I'm either pushing myself too hard,and overtraining,or not doing enough,and coming up short.

Very helpful--thank you.

I noticed Daniels has a way of doing it. Do you agree with his method of attaching a score to a particular pace and time and then adding them up for a week or whatever training cycle is used?
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Daniels method of attaching a score is a great place to start, but it is very generic. Remember that his book is meant as a teaching tool to get people to understand the fundamentals of putting together a running program. However, instead of writing a million additions and sending a personal copy to each would be reader, he had to make a very generic system that will, more or less, give you a rough estimate of what effects training should have on you.

The chapter on "intensity scoring" is a great addition to his newer book. The idea that *I* think one should come away with is simply the idea that a 6 mile tempo run is more intense than a 6 mile run at zn1. As to how much more intense it is for YOU, he can only give a rough starting point and leave it up to you or your coach to make adjustments.

Re: More os more, I noticed some people misunderstood Paulo's post to mean "do what ever you feel like as long as it is more." I'm pretty sure that wasn't the point he was making.

Back to Daniels, his scoring system is not meant to say, "Hey I scored 50 this week. Next week I intend to score 55 but will be going away on a trip and will have little time so I will do two 3 hour workouts as hard as I possibly can.....as long as I score 55 I will be getting the same training effect." Couldn't be further from the truth.

His intention was for you to understand that adding intense miles is harder than adding easy miles. Therefore, you should think about backng off on your weekly mileage when you begin to add intensity. ie "Last week I ran 40 miles. This week I ran 42 miles but added 3 hard workouts. 2 more miles is only a 5% increase but my intensoty score has increased 40%!!! That's too much."

Final point (back to the original point!!) - Keep in mind that Prefontaine trained very intensely as a pro having many back to back (sometimes to back a 3rd time) workouts. Steve Scott, on the other hand, would take one or two days rest after each hard day. Even though these two men had similar talent and success, they recovered differently after hard sessions. Thus, if they were to have used a scoring system for their workouts, Scott would have to place a higher value for his hard days than Pre would.

The fundamentals were still the same, but how they implemented them was different.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Actually, there's considerable scientific data indicating that this is a lot closer to the truth than you seem to think.

Generalizations, like stereotypes, can be dangerous and misleading.

"More is more" makes all kinds of sense if you have the full context (which we have now thanks to your excellent post). But as some other posters on this thread have indicated, not having read all of your previous posts and just hearing the "more is more" mantra, it gave the impression that you were merely advocating piling on the miles.

In context, it makes perfect sense (and it's the same kind of approach I've heard from most cycling coaches for years). I think the "more is more" characterization is ... unfortunate.

Bob C.