TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going!

Mar 17, 19 12:42

Post #1 of 36 (3672 views)

So, between the bit of back and forth that Dan and I/others were having about how my position was non-normal and some of the back channel conversations I have had with a few ST’ers I got to thinking about Time Trial fit.

I reached out to Eric Reid and pitched him on the idea of talking about what he is doing with fits. I feel like he is moving Time Trial fit in a direction away from what is the current norm. Whether it’s right or wrong or whether it will take hold is anyone’s guess. But I am thinking that Dan, who has seen it all over the last 40 years, might have pretty good opinion on how things might trend.

My journey with my fit has seen me go all over the place in terms of drop, reach, hand position, and posture. Consequently, this is a topic I find super interesting and can really debate/talk on for quite a while. The next logical thought was to put together some talking heads to chat about Eric’s fitting and give him a chance to put his fit philosophy out there for everyone…i.e. stake out his place in the fit world.

Which brings me to the point of this post! I’ve wrangled Slowman, EricMPro, Kileyay, and DesertDude to get on a live and have a round table discussion about where Time Trial fit currently sits, where it’s been, and where it is going.

Please post up some questions, thoughts, or a direction you’d like to see this panel take. Also, make sure to tune in on 3/18/19 at 7pm EST to watch live and pose questions and drive the discussion as to what you’d like to hear/see.

Last edited by: LAI: Mar 17, 19 13:23

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [LAI] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 12:48

Post #2 of 36 (3656 views)

why be ya postin' tri images in a tt fit discussion?? just sayin

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [jeffp] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 12:49

Post #3 of 36 (3651 views)

Hahaha...I don't differentiate the two. ;)

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [LAI] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 12:53

Post #4 of 36 (3638 views)

well, clearly with this post and your upcoming podcast, you do...……….you just haven't owned it yet :)

ps when I clicked on link, it says 3/18 and not 3/17

Last edited by: jeffp: Mar 17, 19 12:54

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [LAI] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 12:59

Post #5 of 36 (3606 views)

LAI wrote:

Hahaha...I don't differentiate the two. ;)

There's your first mistake right there.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [LAI] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 12:59

Post #6 of 36 (3604 views)

Ask Dan when Kiley is coming back

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 13:05

Post #7 of 36 (3588 views)

Difference in angles?
Should the angles of the arms be different between TT or tri (Dan advises them to be vertical)

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 13:05

Post #8 of 36 (3587 views)

Jim@EROsports wrote:

LAI wrote:

Hahaha...I don't differentiate the two. ;)

There's your first mistake right there.

Mistake? How so? Please enlighten us so we can add it to the discussion.

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [bennedictus] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 13:07

Post #9 of 36 (3582 views)

bennedictus wrote:

Difference in angles?
Should the angles of the arms be different between TT or tri (Dan advises them to be vertical)

Are you referring to the upper arm aka humerus?

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 13:09

Post #10 of 36 (3569 views)

Fishbum wrote:

Ask Dan when Kiley is coming back

Nope. Not going to happen. Dan has his reasons and Kiley is a big boy that can stick up for himself.

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [LAI] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 13:22

Post #11 of 36 (3526 views)

LAI wrote:

Also, make sure to tune in on 3/17/19 at 7pm EST to watch live [..]

If you click on that link it says 3/18, not 3/17.

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [RChung] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 13:24

Post #12 of 36 (3512 views)

Sorry about that. I had the 17th on the brain and the OP is the only place I didn't correct it. Thank you for pointing that out.

It will be on the 18th (Monday) at 7pm EST.

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [LAI] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 13:25

Post #13 of 36 (3507 views)

😝

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [LAI] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 13:48

Post #14 of 36 (3460 views)

Maybe have Jordan share some thoughts. A pro long distance triathlete to an elite 4k pursuiter... those are pretty far ends of the spectrum.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [LAI] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 14:04

Post #15 of 36 (3421 views)

LAI wrote:

bennedictus wrote:

Difference in angles?
Should the angles of the arms be different between TT or tri (Dan advises them to be vertical)

Are you referring to the upper arm aka humerus?

Yes, but all other angles are also intresting. Also, if there is a difference between TT and Tri fit: what is the difference then between a UCI fit and non-UCI TT fit that they most often see

Last edited by: bennedictus: Mar 17, 19 14:10

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [Morelock] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 14:04

Post #16 of 36 (3420 views)

Morelock wrote:

Maybe have Jordan share some thoughts. A pro long distance triathlete to an elite 4k pursuiter... those are pretty far ends of the spectrum.

Was hard enough to get 5 people to agree on a time, let alone getting a sixth to agree. But yeah, some more athletes to talk about what they would like or have found to be successful would be awesome.

As far as positions being different from a pursuiter to a LC athlete, I think we all agree that they are. I'm trying really hard to not inject my position nor my opinion into this discussion. I really want to give the group a chance to have a great conversation. I asked Eric to be a part of it, actually, Eric was the key because of what he is doing. I really think Eric is doing something different compared to what a Jim Manton is doing. That's not a negative or a positive, but it is a talking point and one a lot of folks seem to be interested in.

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [bennedictus] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 14:06

Post #17 of 36 (3411 views)

Awesome. I thought that was what you meant but wanted to be sure.

bennedictus wrote:

LAI wrote:

bennedictus wrote:

Difference in angles?
Should the angles of the arms be different between TT or tri (Dan advises them to be vertical)

Are you referring to the upper arm aka humerus?

Yes, but all other angles are also intredti g. Also if there is a difference between TT and Tri fit: what is the difference then between a UCI fit and non-UCI TT fit that they most often see

Last edited by: LAI: Mar 17, 19 14:07

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [LAI] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 14:20

Post #18 of 36 (3370 views)

LAI wrote:

Jim@EROsports wrote:

LAI wrote:

Hahaha...I don't differentiate the two. ;)

There's your first mistake right there.

Mistake? How so? Please enlighten us so we can add it to the discussion.

Time on bike, UCI rules, and what you have to do after the bike is done.

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 14:27

Post #19 of 36 (3355 views)

All fare points, but there are plenty of folks running positions for 12 hours and more. Sure they don't run off the bike, but I'm sure if we pulled a few hours out of their ride and backed off the intensity a touch they could probably knock something out. ;)

As far as the UCI, that's a great point. TT guys have to fit into a box that Triathlon guys don't have to. Yet we haven't seen the Pro Tri folks move to extremes. This is Dan's argument about orthodoxy. So, I think we can throw the UCI point out unless those constrained by it would like to move to positions that it prevents. Then I think we are onto something about orthodoxy and where it is and where it might be.

Grant.Reuter wrote:

LAI wrote:

Jim@EROsports wrote:

LAI wrote:

Hahaha...I don't differentiate the two. ;)

There's your first mistake right there.

Mistake? How so? Please enlighten us so we can add it to the discussion.

Time on bike, UCI rules, and what you have to do after the bike is done.

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [LAI] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 15:05

Post #20 of 36 (3301 views)

Not one Cotton-Eyed Joe joke? Sad.

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [bennedictus] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 15:16

Post #21 of 36 (3275 views)

bennedictus wrote:

(Dan advises them to be vertical)

No, he does not. That's a common misconception people read into what he's written.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [LAI] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 15:24

Post #22 of 36 (3265 views)

LAI wrote:

Jim@EROsports wrote:

LAI wrote:

Hahaha...I don't differentiate the two. ;)

There's your first mistake right there.

Mistake? How so? Please enlighten us so we can add it to the discussion.

The way most Pro TT'ers pedal a bike is very different than how a triathlete pedals a bike. Two very different positions. Then, of course, you have the UCI restrictions.

There are exceptions. I worked with EF Drapac this winter, so did Danny Martinez' position. He's has more of a "tri" position as far as fore-aft saddle and hip rotation, but otherwise is lower and much shorter on reach than a tri position. So far this year, it's working great for him. Brandon McNulty, too, has a very "ERO" tri position which has served him well. Mostly, though, a World Tour caliber athlete is going to have a very different saddle position than a triathlete but, contrary to popular belief, it has nothing to do with UCI regs.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 15:31

Post #23 of 36 (3256 views)

See...that's what I am looking for! Awesome post Jim. Thank you for the contribution.

On a side note, did you work Joe D? He's local to me and I've had the pleasure of riding/talking/racing with him and am curious how his morphology plays into his position.

Jim@EROsports wrote:

LAI wrote:

Jim@EROsports wrote:

LAI wrote:

Hahaha...I don't differentiate the two. ;)

There's your first mistake right there.

Mistake? How so? Please enlighten us so we can add it to the discussion.

The way most Pro TT'ers pedal a bike is very different than how a triathlete pedals a bike. Two very different positions. Then, of course, you have the UCI restrictions.

There are exceptions. I worked with EF Drapac this winter, so did Danny Martinez' position. He's has more of a "tri" position as far as fore-aft saddle and hip rotation, but otherwise is lower and much shorter on reach than a tri position. So far this year, it's working great for him. Brandon McNulty, too, has a very "ERO" tri position which has served him well. Mostly, though, a World Tour caliber athlete is going to have a very different saddle position than a triathlete but, contrary to popular belief, it has nothing to do with UCI regs.

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [Morelock] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 16:49

Post #24 of 36 (3178 views)

Morelock wrote:

Maybe have Jordan share some thoughts. A pro long distance triathlete to an elite 4k pursuiter... those are pretty far ends of the spectrum.

He's not "elite" until he can beat 56 y.o. Chris Carlson or 58 y.o. Kevin Metcalfe. Until then he's just a pretty fast masters 35-39 guy :).

Re: TT Fit: Where it is, Where it has Been, and Where it is going! [trail] [ In reply to ]

Mar 17, 19 16:54

Post #25 of 36 (3163 views)

trail wrote:

Morelock wrote:

Maybe have Jordan share some thoughts. A pro long distance triathlete to an elite 4k pursuiter... those are pretty far ends of the spectrum.

He's not "elite" until he can beat 56 y.o. Chris Carlson or 58 y.o. Kevin Metcalfe. Until then he's just a pretty fast masters 35-39 guy :).

As long as he stays in the elite field. I'm the only former triathlete allowed in Masters 35-39 ;)

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

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