I'm with you on this. I can't seem to catch the water like the better swimmers...always feel like there's some slippage.

A couple of days ago I watched a girl a couple of lanes over ripping it at sub 1:10 scy pace (well, she was turning to her feet at 17 secs/25..so about 1:08's) without much of a kick. Distance per stroke was amazing. We chatted. I found out she use to swim in the next lane over from Katie Ledecky (I guess that was the Nations Capital Swim Club since she said it was in the DC area).

She said my body position looked ok so if I can just figure out the propulsion part I'm good. : )

Don't worry, I hate that term as well!

Some thoughts-

1. The catch is a very misleading concept. You're not 'catching' anything. You're 'repositioning'. Doesn't sound quite so exciting! That repositioning takes place when you enter. Initially, you hand/arm is moving straight ahead and gets more or less straight in front of you. It needs to get in the following position-

-Hand is deeper than elbow
-Hand is inside the elbow

I tried to upload a sample picture. Let me know if I was successful. This is an EXAMPLE of someone getting into the basic position. The elbow can be more or less bent and the hand can be more or less deep.

Another simple way to think about this is to just POP THE ELBOW out. The hand is pretty much going to go deep no matter what, so just pop the elbow out. POP isn't even really the right word, it's almost like you just release it out.

Try this-
1. Stand or sit up straight.
2. Put your arm straight out in front of your body (arm is parallel to the ground)
3. Pop you elbow out to the side. You'll see you achieve a position like the image shows. Pop it more and get more elbow bend. Pop less and it's straight.
4. Now reach you arm to the ceiling. Let it come forward towards the ground, as it does pop the elbow.
5. Look at the basic position, exactly what you want. Just practice the timing in the water. Just pop the elbow out.

So the 'catch' doesn't really FEEL like anything. It's just a repositioning. Once you're in position, THEN you start putting some gas into it and pull straight back AFTER your in the money position.

There is SOME more nuance to this, However, it's 90% of the battle.

2. Make you hands/forearms smarter. Do some swimming with the hand positions I have attached in the image (again let me know if this doesn't show up). This accomplishes 2 things. #1 it takes away the hands so that you're forced to get the forearm into the action (rather than thinking about it, it happens pretty naturally). If you don't, you won't go anywhere. #2 When you open the hands back up, you can feel EVERYTHING. It can be very helpful in creating awareness of what your hands are doing and how they're interacting with the water.

With everything, try to keep it simple and ACTIONABLE.

Please let me know if this help you, or if anyone finds it useful. Happy to expand.

Andrew

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

You are welcome!

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Fishtailing-

This is often a result of poor rotation and really wide and low arm recoveries, which are often a result of poor rotation. The rotation of the body makes up for the shoulder's lack of mobility, allow you to recover the arms up higher. It's not that more rotation is better, it's just that there needs to be enough to effectively recover the arms. Without seeing video, my initial guess would be that rotation and really low/wide recoveries (almost like butterly) are part of the problem.

The band/buoy or band exercise that lightheir suggests will certainly expose weaknesses and give you a lot of feedback as to when you're losing position. If you aren't recovering more over the top or you're swinging across your body, you will be punished. As he suggests, if you use this exercise, definitely start with a buoy and a band. Recovering higher with more rotation will probably help you be effective here.

Another one is the paddle cap freestyle I've referenced and linked to earlier. If the head is moving around, the shoulders, hips, and legs are going to follow. Like the band, the paddle gives you feedback as to whether you're moving around too much.

Body alignment-

If the legs are dragging, I believe strongly that it is an issue with managing the lungs and learning how to leverage their flotation. There are a coupled basic exercises I link earlier (BALL FLOAT) and (ELEVATOR SWIM)

https://drive.google.com/...o1i/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/...moy/view?usp=sharing

That can help you get control of this skill.

I come back to this a lot, but if you can use the flotation of your lungs to find stability in the water, a lot of other skills become much more difficult to manage.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you think there might be something else going on, and I can steer you in another direction.

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

I appreciate the kinds words.

Yes, there pressure differentials is a big part of it. The hand positions I posted a few minutes ago are the best dual I know of that can help develop this ability. It can definitely be improved. Of course, as with anything in life, some people are just better than others. This is PART of the natural ability good swimmers have.

It is my opinion that a BIGGER component of natural ability is the ability to assume very streamlined position. Some of this is active (what they are doing), but an even bigger component is the shape of their spine and having the flexibility in their other joints to move their limbs without changing their spinal alignment.

Many of the best swimmers I have coached have almost literally straight spines. They have the right hulls. There have been all-Americans that can't do a pull-up! It's the shape that matters.

My guesses that your masters friends are probably more effective in their arm action, but MUCH more effectively in their alignment through the water.

Of course, the best athletes have it all.

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

This is an example of an exercise that does the teaching for you. The feedback is immediate and you can't fake it. You do it or you don't.

For those coaching themselves, finding these exercises is CRITICAL. They may be more difficult to succeed with at first, but once you get it, you've GOT it.

You want exercises that FORCE you to do it right.

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

What do you feel like you are struggling with? What seems to be missing?

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Not sure.

I tried the squeeze the ball visualization technique today. That worked ok but it slowed my stroke rate down. I’m ok with that if I’m on the right track and it’s just a matter of gaining fitness using different muscle groups.

I’ve also been working on my breath timing. If I get it wrong I start the pull on the non breathing side with my hand at an angle and I slip water.

it could help others, but what if I need to be a fast swimmer? like 16 min 1500. i know its work your ass off. just want to put the effort in the right direction

Thank you for the detailed answer! Private message sent.

Andrew,

hey man good thread.
I went through all your links. brought me back to my swim coaching days where we'd get those new to swimming 5-10 year olds. Your links are some of the first things we did with the new to swimming kids. Learn how to float, learn how balance, learn how to rock back and forth, learn to be comfortable in the water.

All things that as swimmers we do/did all through the years but as triathletes we rarely, if ever, do when we hit the pool or even at a well organized masters program.

Thanks for this, both the trip down memory lane and the refresher to have my athletes just be kids in the pool more often!

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

With the whole “ball float” drill…

I tried this last night. I couldn’t do it. I would ball up and my feet would roll to the bottom of the pool and my head would be towards the surface of the water.

My wife tried it, and she instantly floated like the video shows.

Additionally, I couldn’t lay flat on the surface… my legs would sink. Again, my wife had no problem floating flat on the surface.

She is an AOS, too, and definitely isn’t as strong as I am in the water…

So what gives? What am I doing wrong?

---

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Great thread, very kind of you to spend your time helping us.

I just took my first videos of my stroke with a local swim instructor. Immediately, the two glaring problems that were obvious to both of us were that I have zero ankle mobility, my feet literally point straight down at the bottom of the pool at a right angle to travel AND I was craning my neck to get to air and it was a wacky angle that clearly wasn't aerodynamic.

So, I started a bunch of drills to improve the breathing and have realized that I need to enter the water a bit early and really watch my catch with my opposite arm (I breath left, so my right arm). When I do this it really cleans up the pocket and allows me to leave a goggle lens in the water and keep my head straight in line with my spine. Now, I'm continuing to practice this, but I'm also noticing that I need a little more rotation to that side now to clear the bottom of pull and start the recovery more relaxed and efficiently. Does that sound practical? Is this a normal progression of cleaning up the opposite arm catch? I'm going to start working on the other side breathing soon, so I want to make sure I'm not ingraining more bad habits.

I think I'm swimming the same speed, which is just kind of cruising, not trying to swim fast and about 2:00 / 100 yards. I feel like I'm putting out a lot less effort and my stroke count is going down.

Also, what to do about the ankle mobility other than stretch. Ironically, I have a friend who trains strength and lifting and we were working through some clean and snatch drills and he commented that my ankles have terrible mobility. So, it's consistent. ;)

Thanks for any suggestions.

Me too! I did the ball float and my back was fully submerged - it seems I "float" about 5-10 cm below the surface of the water!

I've tried this on and off for a few years and can never get my feet to be anywhere near the surface. Tried engaging the core, altering my posture, etc. Any factors I can key in on to have my feet not sink to the bottom of the pool with a band on?

It just takes practice.

Again, start with a pullbuoy, two if needed. Once you get that down, you can work on removing it.

A snorkel will also help to get the inital body position down before you put the breathing back in.

A key concept to do this drill-swim correctly is to minimize extraneous movements. As said before, without the kick to compensate, any errant motion will get amplified. Lift your head a little, your legs will sink - then you dolphin kick which fixes it but then your legs bounce after the kick and then they're back sinking to the floor. The key is to avoid that initial motion to not set off the chain of events that make you sink.

I actually found it very helpful to start by swimming stupidly slow, like nearly just floating. I've seen other advice about 'high arm turnover' for this banded swim, but I've found that only to be a VERY advanced version of it. It's more like a survival float with a hint of arm pulling in the beginner version of it.

You'll get it - it's actually not that hard despite seeming impossible for the first few times you do it.

1. If you're worried about stroke rate going down, keep track of your times and your stroke counts. If one or both of those numbers are improving, you are on the right track. You should do that with ANY change. That's how you can judge whether it's being effective. You don't need any special technology to do that, either.

2. With any change, it usually requires a bit of conscious effort at first. That will probably slow your rate down. IN addition, at first, you may be really trying to squeeze the pull and squeeze your muscles. That fine at first. However, once you've got the basic action down, it should just sort of happen. You don't have to or want to get a really strong squeeze. That takes too much time. With practice, that tends to sort itself out.

It could be gaining strength in other areas. It's also probably just a coordination issue that will smooth out sooner than later.

3. Breathing is a major factor in messing up the arm pull. If you lift your head to breathe, you instinctively start to pull/press on the water to try to create stability. Whenever you see someone slip through the front part of their stroke, it often happens when they breathe. This can happen in swimmers with an otherwise good pull. Breathing is CRITICAL! It can negatively affect body position AND the effectiveness of the pull. Any you're probably breathing 33%-50% of the time.

Fix the breath, fix the stroke!

Hope that helps.

Andrew

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

The answer to that question is a book my friend!

I'll try to be helpful.

That is legit swimming in a pool and that is LEGIT swimming open water.

There are 3 big things you need to accomplish. They are ALL important. I am not listing them in order of importance. You won't accomplish the goal without all 3 unless you are a FREAK. If you are, why are you reading this:)?

With all my statements below, there are execeptions IF you are EXCEPTIONAL in 1 or 2 of the other areas.

1. You obviously need to be fit. Really fit. That requires accumulating some volume AND swimming at high intensity for extended periods of time.

What's a lot of volume? Multiples 10s of 1000s of meters a week. Probably like a college/high level age club middle distance swimmer. It doesn't have to be/shouldn't all be hard, but you need to swim.

What's high intensity for extended periods of time. Stuff like 20x100 at race pace; 6x400 at threshold type effort. Nothing special about those types of sets, just an example of the type of work.

However, most people know this.

2. You have to be FAST. Most people do NOT realize this. If you can't go under WAY 30 seconds for a 50m freestyle, no shot. If you can't go under 1 minute for 100 meters, no shot.

You have to always be working on speed. 25s/50s FAST with plenty of rest. It's the opposite of #1. It is NOT lactate type work. It's FAST with a lot of rest, not training to fatigue.

This isn't something you throw in when you wanted to 'taper' or 'sharpen'. It needs to be every week, year round.

If you are familiar with pool swimming, Katie Ledecky went 15:20 something in the 1500, not because she was super fit (though she was). She went that fast because she could go 53 in the 100m when her competitors were going 56. Same on the mens' side. Sun Yang went 48. The other guys are going 51. No contest.

3. You have to improve your skills. You won’t be able to improve your speed and your fitness to the required level if your skills can’t support it. If your skills aren’t good enough, you won’t be able to create the speed. If you’re skills aren’t efficient, you won’t be able to sustain your speed.

#2 and #3 are often forgotten.

Some other ideas-

If your fitness is improving, but your speed is not, you will plateau sooner than later.
If your speed is improving, but your technique is not, you will plateau sooner than later.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you, or anyone else has follow up questions.

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Hey Brian,

I appreciate the kind words.

This is EXACTLY the point. It is fundamental work that the majority of young swimmers are exposed to directly through similar activities, or indirectly through spending a lot of time in the water playing, etc. These kids are COMFORTABLE in the water.

In contrast, AOS completely skip this step and try to layer swimming skills on top of a non-existent foundation. There is no learning to be comfortable in the water in structured format and certainly no play.

Work on developing a solid foundation, and add the specific skills to it.

Andrew

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

Due to body proportions, body density, etc. some people just ride higher and better in the water.

However, I wouldn't worry about where you end up. Your position doesn't matter. Your STABILITY does. If you can find stability, even if your head is almost vertical, you're good. I am the same way. I have muscular legs and I am a dense person. I don't ride high or level. It's find stability and comfort that's important, then expanding the number of positions you can find stability.

Laying flat on the surface is very difficult. I can't do it. As you saw in the video, the one demonstrator did it easily, the other not so much. The value is not so much in obtaining the position, but the challenging of 'fighting' for position.

It's actually easier to hold your position while moving, so if you can't do it in a more difficult situation, that's a win. Based upon what you're saying, I would just stick with the lower end exercises. You'll get more out of them than the ones where you really struggle.

Remember that goal is some level of comfort, not achieving a specific position.

I hope that helps.

Andrew

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

I think I understand what you are saying. Yes, that makes sense. If you are going at the same speed with less effort and fewer strokes, that is a DEFINITE win. You're on the right track. Pay attention to effort, time, and stroke count. If 2 of the 3 are improving, you are making progress. If all 3 are improving, even better.

Ankle mobility- not really stretching is the only real option. CAUTION- stretching your ankles is playing with fire. If you do too much too soon, you WILL get hurt. You also need to be careful that stretching your ankles could it some way compromise your running. Really good swimmers have really flexible ankles and they're mostly terrible runners and are always getting hurt. It CAN work, but you have to be really careful and it's not always worth it, especially in the context of triathlon. Do as you will, but please be careful.

Hope that helps.

Andrew

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

As I said to cloy, even if you ride low, that's okay provided that you are stable and feel like you could 'rest' there. It's more about learning how to be comfortable in the water than achieving a perfect position.

Are you pretty lean?

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

To echo lighheir's advice, start with band and buoy. That should keep your feet up. Initially just focus on getting rid of the fishtail part. As lightheir said, any extra movements with be magnified because you can't cheat with your legs. Solve that problem first as that was your original issue. Over time, work towards keeping the legs up without the buoy.

---

http://www.masteringflow.info
http://www.youtube.com/@masteringflow
http://www.andrewsheaffcoaching.com/...freestyle-fast-today

In all of the Total Immersion literature Terry Laughlin recommends you reach a little deeper before starting your catch to plane your legs out. As if your fingers are the flaps on an airplane wing and you let your upper body follow them in a little deeper and your legs will rise. I find this to be true, but I don't know if that's considered "good technique" really? I know some of what he taught isn't in fashion any longer.

I find the issue I have when I glide deeper is that my face is further away from the surface when I go to breath, so I rotate more to get there.

Never thought about a second swim buoy. That sounds like it could help me as my legs sink with just one.

I think I'll just accept my poor ankle flexibility and work on the other elements of my stroke for now.

Matt, you might want to try kicking (a lot) with fins. That will help loosen up the ankles a bit.