Hmmm, that is a bit surprising as I would have thought you'd be good without the fins. Oh well, my impression from years of watching people kick is that very few, maybe 5%, can really move without fins. I have never been a natural kicker but have improved by kicking a lot on my back with fins. I put my arms over my head in the streamline position and then just alternate say 4 x 100 yd/m w/o fins, then 400 yd/m with fins, and repeat that set 1-3 times. I've gotten to where I can keep up with a natural kicker for a 25 if I'm going hard and they're just going average pace, which is a big improvement for moi. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

So I've been doing drills with paddles just attached to one finger and finding it super helpful. I'm not sure it has completely translated into my normal swimming, but I think my body position looks a bit better and I'm going a bit faster - so maybe there is light at the end of the swim tunnel.

https://vimeo.com/849718822?share=copy

Good to hear.

Not sure how many total meters your swim sessions are, but when you swim with your paddles (called "pulling"), how many meters are you pulling with your paddles? Are you using a pull buoy between your legs when you pull, or no?

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Around 500m. Have been using fins with them.

500m is good. But l would highly suggest that you not use fins with them, as it decreases the 'teaching efectiveness' of the paddles. Instead, to get the best and most benefit from your paddles, instead use them with a pull buoy and don't kick (with the buoy).



I think you will find, that if you continue to pull with paddles and a buoy in most of your swim sessions (~500m), the movement patterns you develop in your pulling will indeed carry over to regular freestyle swimming.

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Cool, thanks, will try with the pull buoy.

Oh my goodness, is it supposed to feel so much harder with the pull buoy than with fins - it felt pretty ropey!!

Ropey? What does that mean?

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Not very good. Dodgy. Awkward.

I lost the propulsion from my fins and everything went to shit 🤨

It would be interesting to see your paddles, their size and their set up. Hopefully, your paddles are only slightly bigger than your hands. Also be aware that any paddles will change your stroke timing, they will slow down your stroke rate (only when you use them, your stroke rate will return to normal when you take them off).

Not sure what is awkward, but are your paddles not staying in place on your hands? If so, keep swimming with them and observe, think about, and modify your arm movement patterns on your entry, catch, pull, and recovery such that the paddles are never pulled off or peeled off your hands at ANY point in your stroke.

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They are only a tiny bit longer than my hand, but quite a bit wider (I have quite long thin hands). Maybe should have got a size smaller, hard to tell when ordering online. (TYR catalyst in Medium)

Well, they should be bigger than your hands (just not massively bigger). Can you post a pic of one of your paddles and share their width and length in cm ?

Also, can you explain better what is happening with your paddles that is awkward ?

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Width 7.5" length 8.8"

I'm not exactly sure what felt awkward. When I was using fins I was moving faster and I felt more balanced and my stroke felt controlled and smooth. With the pullbuoy my stroke just felt wild, can't explain why - it did improve after a few 100m.

Yes, that paddle is quite large for you. It is definitely not ideal, but you can use it if you don't overdo it and you allow yourself to slow down your stroke rate. All paddles slow down your stroke rate, but bigger paddles do it to a greater degree.

Better options:
1) sell those and buy the next smallest size (maybe 2 smaller sizes?)
2) get a hacksaw a cut 2-3 cm off the width and length uniformly all around the paddle, maybe removing more material on the pinky side of your hand. Plastic is easy to cut, just smooth down the cut edges with some sandpaper after you do this (this is the cheapest but most labor intensive option).

About awkwardness, after a few months of practice (maybe no more than 500-600m at a time), your pulling will feel much, much smoother. And many of your stroke errors (especially the underwater ones) will be corrected. And your normal swimming will get faster.

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Which do you reckon? S or XS? Thanks for the help.

I like big paddles and find them more effective in really giving power and pull path, but the one you showed is larger than the ones I use, and you're already having problems with paddles, so def go with smaller paddles that are the size of your palm or just barely bigger than that.

A big reason a lot of people swim awkwardly with paddles + buoy is that they rely on an errant kick to offset any problems in their pull stroke that propel them sideways, etc. This is why the buoy + no kick is helpful - it isolates your pull stroke, forcing you to clean up whatever stroke problems are wasting energy by sending your body in the wrong directions.

Def worth working on if you can't do it well.

Great, thanks!!!

To me this means you are overly dependent on your fins, and that your upper body has not developed the swim-specific strength needed to swim even semi-fast. As Dark said, using paddles and the buoy will force you to pull properly and gradually your strength will increase. You might want to do 10 x 50 m, or 5 x 100 m, rather than 500 m straight, to give your muscles a little rest between these harder-than-you-are-used-to repeats. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Oh yeah, I'm doing sets of 100m - I'm not crazy :-)

Smart girl!!! Before long you'll be busting out big sets with the paddles and showing off pics of your new "V-shaped" back. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

It is kind of a judgment call, but XS might be a safer choice. But S might work too.

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I used to swim with PB all the time and I was good at swimming with PB but bad at swimming - havent swam with a PB in 12 + months and swimming better atm

Pb and pads lets you sort of put your belly and hips off to sleep. Doing the paddles only and no pb gives you extra resistance but still have to kind of kick and float your hips. Just what I have found

Generally true. But l was suggesting the modified paddles to Island, not for additional resistance, but for improving aspects of her stroke technique. I find the pull buoy is helpful in this situation because paddles slow down a swimmer's stroke rate, which in turn affects the kick timing. And Island doesn't need to learn a new kick timing, she needs to improve her technique on her arm entry, pull, and recovery. The pull buoy has another benefit in this situation in that the swimmer can temporarily ignore everything going on below the hips and use her brain power to more focus on the many big and small stroke corrections that the modified paddles are "teaching" her.

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I'm a terrible swimmer, and completely unqualified to comment on anyone else's technique, but I'm seeing a HUGE pause at the front of the stroke, and wonder why no-one else has commented on it...