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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [TriSki20] [ In reply to ]
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Very cool, thanks for sharing.

My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [TriSki20] [ In reply to ]
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TriSki20 wrote:
... but I love ice cream and beer and this is a hobby

Thanks for a great write up. I'll only see the front of the race on TV.

BTW, now that your "pro" and have earned a paycheck, you can't say "this is a hobby" :)

Good luck with your future events.

Not a coach. Not a FOP Tri/swimmer/biker/runner. Barely a MOP AGer.
But I'm learning and making progress.
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [TriSki20] [ In reply to ]
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Great race cap and congratulations on stepping up to the big show. A very big jump too, more than most age groupers can even imagine when comparing their times to the pros.

And good on you for ditching the power and PE numbers, well not ditching them, but ignoring them and racing the race. In the race thread many commented on how this swim was pedestrian compared to ITU, but I pushed back and said it was just as hard, just 40 less bodies to fill in the gaps between lead and 2nd groups. Thanks for putting up your swim chops and how hard it was for you to just get on the back of that lead group. And good for you to burn the match to make that happen, which of course enabled you to even have that opportunity to ride with the boys out of T1.

And good job just going for it on the bike too, sometimes you have to ignore numbers and just go for it. Otherwise how would you ever know what your real limits are? You learned so much valuable information in this one race, most of which you would never know in an even paced race done mostly by yourself. You put yourself in a position to have success, and you got the best place you could have. You would have made a good bike racer too, the ability to ride well over threshold for minutes at a time, then back down and recover quickly, is the hallmark of a great road racer.

Plus now you have that confidence in something you never would have dreamed of doing, is now possible. Even if you blew ski high in the run, it would have been a great learning experience. If you had given those numbers to 10 different coaches, they would have all said you were going to blow and thus fail. But now you have the reality of what really can happen, and rolling the dice is the pro way. Since my day it has been the same, we just didnt have all these numbers to look at to guide us, or reflect back on afterwards.

So congratulations once again, just know that your window to improve and be in the mix is a small one measured by the length of a life. If you get that opportunity to cutback or delay work, I would take it. I actually did take it when it was my choice, and dropped out of the workforce for 11 years before returning. And I dont regret one day of that time, and living a monkish triathlon lifestyle was a pleasure. We all knew we were never going to be rich, or even well off, but we could pay the bills and even save a little money until that last pro race came. Work will always be there waiting, this opportunity has a very defined and short lifespan, so best not to dwell on what to do too long, or it just passes you by.
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [TriSki20] [ In reply to ]
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Appreciate the write-up! Cool to read about the swim/bike surging. Really happy to see you take 6th + earn some prize money. Hope more amateurs make the leap. There are a lot of professional amateurs who can clean up at almost any AG race. I get the fun in that but here you are competing against the best & finishing well inside the top-10 in your 1st pro race. Any thoughts about what if you had turned pro sooner assuming you could have in the last couple of years & what might have been holding you back? Maybe if you had turned pro sooner you wouldn't have gotten this result the first time out but you still would've gotten here eventually. I think some guys don't want to go from winning an AG race to 20th out of 25 in a pro field. You finished a lot higher than that & the person who goes 20/25 in their first pro field can see what you've done & keep working to finish higher & higher up in future races.
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
tripolar wrote:
Congrats and thanks for sharing! It's fascinating to hear about in-race dynamics at the front. Serious question - did anyone buy you a beer afterwards to celebrate?


Haha. I made my first triathlon paycheck so I bought the pizza and beer!!


What are you going to do with the $5 leftover? 😁😉


Ha! It’s all going to holiday booze and Xmas presents. More than $5 tho! $1500 for 6th.


1500 * .70 (30% taxes) = 1050

He's 28 and wife is in school and he can train a lot - I highly doubt he is in the 24% federal bracket (giving 6% for state).
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [B.McMaster] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
B.McMaster wrote:
synthetic wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
tripolar wrote:
Congrats and thanks for sharing! It's fascinating to hear about in-race dynamics at the front. Serious question - did anyone buy you a beer afterwards to celebrate?


Haha. I made my first triathlon paycheck so I bought the pizza and beer!!


What are you going to do with the $5 leftover? 😁😉


Ha! It’s all going to holiday booze and Xmas presents. More than $5 tho! $1500 for 6th.


1500 * .70 (30% taxes) = 1050

He's 28 and wife is in school and he can train a lot - I highly doubt he is in the 24% federal bracket (giving 6% for state).

He’s a marketing director in California. I’d be shocked if he wasn’t at least there.
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [TriSki20] [ In reply to ]
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TriSki20 wrote:
I love ice cream and beer and this is a hobby… and speed = power = calories etc etc… thanks Olav ;)

Amen brother! Ben & Jerry's needs to make this a flavor! :)

Thanks for your write-up/information & congrats on your success!
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [TriSki20] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome race and nice write up. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [Vols] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Vols wrote:
B.McMaster wrote:
synthetic wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
tripolar wrote:
Congrats and thanks for sharing! It's fascinating to hear about in-race dynamics at the front. Serious question - did anyone buy you a beer afterwards to celebrate?


Haha. I made my first triathlon paycheck so I bought the pizza and beer!!


What are you going to do with the $5 leftover? 😁😉


Ha! It’s all going to holiday booze and Xmas presents. More than $5 tho! $1500 for 6th.


1500 * .70 (30% taxes) = 1050

He's 28 and wife is in school and he can train a lot - I highly doubt he is in the 24% federal bracket (giving 6% for state).

He’s a marketing director in California. I’d be shocked if he wasn’t at least there.

Lol. DM for detailed financials? Not sure where this is going or why it matters but guess that’s the beauty of slowtwitch… but yes most is going to taxes and I make plenty of $ working at a publicly traded tech company as most directors do based out of SF Bay Area
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Great race cap and congratulations on stepping up to the big show. A very big jump too, more than most age groupers can even imagine when comparing their times to the pros.

And good on you for ditching the power and PE numbers, well not ditching them, but ignoring them and racing the race. In the race thread many commented on how this swim was pedestrian compared to ITU, but I pushed back and said it was just as hard, just 40 less bodies to fill in the gaps between lead and 2nd groups. Thanks for putting up your swim chops and how hard it was for you to just get on the back of that lead group. And good for you to burn the match to make that happen, which of course enabled you to even have that opportunity to ride with the boys out of T1.

And good job just going for it on the bike too, sometimes you have to ignore numbers and just go for it. Otherwise how would you ever know what your real limits are? You learned so much valuable information in this one race, most of which you would never know in an even paced race done mostly by yourself. You put yourself in a position to have success, and you got the best place you could have. You would have made a good bike racer too, the ability to ride well over threshold for minutes at a time, then back down and recover quickly, is the hallmark of a great road racer.

Plus now you have that confidence in something you never would have dreamed of doing, is now possible. Even if you blew ski high in the run, it would have been a great learning experience. If you had given those numbers to 10 different coaches, they would have all said you were going to blow and thus fail. But now you have the reality of what really can happen, and rolling the dice is the pro way. Since my day it has been the same, we just didnt have all these numbers to look at to guide us, or reflect back on afterwards.

So congratulations once again, just know that your window to improve and be in the mix is a small one measured by the length of a life. If you get that opportunity to cutback or delay work, I would take it. I actually did take it when it was my choice, and dropped out of the workforce for 11 years before returning. And I dont regret one day of that time, and living a monkish triathlon lifestyle was a pleasure. We all knew we were never going to be rich, or even well off, but we could pay the bills and even save a little money until that last pro race came. Work will always be there waiting, this opportunity has a very defined and short lifespan, so best not to dwell on what to do too long, or it just passes you by.

Thank you. Much appreciated. Love your perspective on not letting the opportunity pass you by. I’ve worked hard, but also recognize I am very lucky to even be racing these guys.
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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dcpinsonn wrote:
Appreciate the write-up! Cool to read about the swim/bike surging. Really happy to see you take 6th + earn some prize money. Hope more amateurs make the leap. There are a lot of professional amateurs who can clean up at almost any AG race. I get the fun in that but here you are competing against the best & finishing well inside the top-10 in your 1st pro race. Any thoughts about what if you had turned pro sooner assuming you could have in the last couple of years & what might have been holding you back? Maybe if you had turned pro sooner you wouldn't have gotten this result the first time out but you still would've gotten here eventually. I think some guys don't want to go from winning an AG race to 20th out of 25 in a pro field. You finished a lot higher than that & the person who goes 20/25 in their first pro field can see what you've done & keep working to finish higher & higher up in future races.

A lot of thoughts on this:
1) I wasn’t ready until this year. Getting 20/25 in the pro field is so much less fun than racing at the front (or middle) of dynamic race. I shared a lot on this in my Oceanside thread in April, but my perspective is the same.
2) after winning Oceanside and having a breakthrough there, nothing was really holding me back except for a Kona slot I had earned in 2020 that kept getting pushed out. If I went pro, I’d lose the chance to race Kona (and go for podium), and recognized that opportunity may never present itself again as a pro. I also then went on to win 3 more 70.3s and Ironman worlds (25-29) at St George - it was a freaking incredible year of racing!! And they were all epic battles, not many blowouts except Ohio 70.3. I don’t know if the answer you were hoping to hear but I wouldn’t trade this year of amateur racing at the front of the field vs being a mid pack pro for anything.

“You still would have gotten here eventually” - possibly but we will never know. A huge part of my drive was being field by winning, racing for overall amateur wins, and chasing the podium at st G and Kona. Had I been 20th trying to chase 15-17th, getting stomped every race, idk if that burn to grind the way I have this year every week with massive volume and intensity… might have just flamed out. Many guys have when they make the jump too early.
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [TriSki20] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TriSki20 wrote:
Vols wrote:
B.McMaster wrote:
synthetic wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
tripolar wrote:
Congrats and thanks for sharing! It's fascinating to hear about in-race dynamics at the front. Serious question - did anyone buy you a beer afterwards to celebrate?


Haha. I made my first triathlon paycheck so I bought the pizza and beer!!


What are you going to do with the $5 leftover? 😁😉


Ha! It’s all going to holiday booze and Xmas presents. More than $5 tho! $1500 for 6th.


1500 * .70 (30% taxes) = 1050


He's 28 and wife is in school and he can train a lot - I highly doubt he is in the 24% federal bracket (giving 6% for state).


He’s a marketing director in California. I’d be shocked if he wasn’t at least there.


Lol. DM for detailed financials? Not sure where this is going or why it matters but guess that’s the beauty of slowtwitch… but yes most is going to taxes and I make plenty of $ working at a publicly traded tech company as most directors do based out of SF Bay Area

I'm not surprised at all it went in some obscure way like this, but man. What a weird direction. It was really fun tracking you...Can't imagine being IN the race with the guys we idolize in the sport!

Blog: https://davidkoppeltriathlon.blogspot.com/
Coaching: https://dkendurance.com/
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [TriSki20] [ In reply to ]
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Nice race and congrats on your year.

Not so much a single question, but I’d like to hear about your progression from 2017- present. After a quick search it looks like your improvement over the years is pretty outstanding, going back to the start with some very average performances, avg bike and mid 1:30s 70.3, runs before some real solid races in 2020-2022. Was there Aha moment or is it a combination of consistency, experience, coaching, time, etc?
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [B.McMaster] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
B.McMaster wrote:
synthetic wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
tripolar wrote:
Congrats and thanks for sharing! It's fascinating to hear about in-race dynamics at the front. Serious question - did anyone buy you a beer afterwards to celebrate?


Haha. I made my first triathlon paycheck so I bought the pizza and beer!!


What are you going to do with the $5 leftover? 😁😉


Ha! It’s all going to holiday booze and Xmas presents. More than $5 tho! $1500 for 6th.


1500 * .70 (30% taxes) = 1050


He's 28 and wife is in school and he can train a lot - I highly doubt he is in the 24% federal bracket (giving 6% for state).

i think out of country pros taxed this rate, my wife won money in mexico (run races) and had 30% removed. Just showing how low the prize money really is especially if you are a pro trying to survive off it with no back up income - and why many top level pros out of country do not show up to races.
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [TriSki20] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dude, awesome post. Thanks for detailing this stuff. Would love to hear detailed race fueling info too.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison wrote:
Dude, awesome post. Thanks for detailing this stuff. Would love to hear detailed race fueling info too.

2nd this. Give us the real secrets
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [SpencerR] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SpencerR wrote:
DrAlexHarrison wrote:
Dude, awesome post. Thanks for detailing this stuff. Would love to hear detailed race fueling info too.

2nd this. Give us the real secrets
3rd this! Could you also talk about the logistics of your fueling? I.e. concentrated bottle, gels, premixed bottles, if you take handouts at aid stations, etc.
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
Great race cap and congratulations on stepping up to the big show. A very big jump too, more than most age groupers can even imagine when comparing their times to the pros.

And good on you for ditching the power and PE numbers, well not ditching them, but ignoring them and racing the race. In the race thread many commented on how this swim was pedestrian compared to ITU, but I pushed back and said it was just as hard, just 40 less bodies to fill in the gaps between lead and 2nd groups. Thanks for putting up your swim chops and how hard it was for you to just get on the back of that lead group. And good for you to burn the match to make that happen, which of course enabled you to even have that opportunity to ride with the boys out of T1.

And good job just going for it on the bike too, sometimes you have to ignore numbers and just go for it. Otherwise how would you ever know what your real limits are? You learned so much valuable information in this one race, most of which you would never know in an even paced race done mostly by yourself. You put yourself in a position to have success, and you got the best place you could have. You would have made a good bike racer too, the ability to ride well over threshold for minutes at a time, then back down and recover quickly, is the hallmark of a great road racer.

Plus now you have that confidence in something you never would have dreamed of doing, is now possible. Even if you blew ski high in the run, it would have been a great learning experience. If you had given those numbers to 10 different coaches, they would have all said you were going to blow and thus fail. But now you have the reality of what really can happen, and rolling the dice is the pro way. Since my day it has been the same, we just didnt have all these numbers to look at to guide us, or reflect back on afterwards.

So congratulations once again, just know that your window to improve and be in the mix is a small one measured by the length of a life. If you get that opportunity to cutback or delay work, I would take it. I actually did take it when it was my choice, and dropped out of the workforce for 11 years before returning. And I dont regret one day of that time, and living a monkish triathlon lifestyle was a pleasure. We all knew we were never going to be rich, or even well off, but we could pay the bills and even save a little money until that last pro race came. Work will always be there waiting, this opportunity has a very defined and short lifespan, so best not to dwell on what to do too long, or it just passes you by.

From someone who chose wrong at your age, Monty’s right. Fund your youth with your old age, rather than funding your old age with your youth. You can do more with youth; when you are old sitting behind a desk is about your only option.

Of course, if you are making money to create generational wealth, the calculus changes.
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jkhayc wrote:
follow up question:

Quote:
I spent 11 minutes above 410 watts, and had to hold 500-510 watts for 30 seconds at 3 different times. Just burning so many more matches than you normally would when riding a steady solo TT in the amateur field.


but to sit in the draft you had to do the above. does the yoyo-ing (am not referring to sam long here...) and stochastic power output to GET the draft and resultant excessive energy expenditure make up for a "worse" run. i.e. holding that many watts to ride a 2:06ish doesn't seem necessary. especially with that VI.

you ran pretty steady, so you probably didn't give up too much time on the run with that bike effort, but would you rather ride a 2:07-2:08 and run a 1:15? or ride a 2:05-2:06 and run a 1:18?

most pros (especially male pros) do not race in a way designed to give them the best overall time (and therefore, place), especially at regional races like Indian Wells.

great overall output though, especially given you have a demanding career.

This is what I was getting at. It depends how much the VI ends up chewing up what average power you can make.

At those speeds, personally, I'm about 10w per mph. Actually a hair less. For that height, I feel that's a totally reasonable target for a pro triathlete. As I'm a total hobbyist nobody and am slightly taller. So, there's speed on the table here for sure.
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison wrote:
Dude, awesome post. Thanks for detailing this stuff. Would love to hear detailed race fueling info too.

For sure!

Night before race: pasta + potato + athletic brewing. As much as I can eat until I feel incredibly full

Pre race breakfast (4-4:30 am for 7am start): 4 pieces thick white bread, 2 scoops peanut butter, 2 bananas, triple shot espresso.

Pre swim (6:30am): one bottle DeltaG ketones, one NeverSecond gel (75mg caffeine)

Bike: 2 x 90g carb bottles of NeverSecond + one caf gel. I probably drank 2/3 of one of the bottles so going for 90-95g of carbs per hour. One is a BTA bottle (torpedo) custom mounted on a piece of carbon I bought and cut on amazon, and then a rear saddle gorilla cage. In the future I will use my aero frame cage filled w/ water so I don't have to stop at any aid stations for water under normal weather conditions.

Run: 4x30g NeverSecond gels, one with caffeine, every 15 mins (15,30,45,60), water at aid stations.

Not sure there is much room for improvement but I know the Norweigans are doing more carbs so I'll work on training gut to maybe get to 110-120 on the bike if I can for next year
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [TriSki20] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TriSki20 wrote:
Vols wrote:
B.McMaster wrote:
synthetic wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
The GMAN wrote:
TriSki20 wrote:
tripolar wrote:
Congrats and thanks for sharing! It's fascinating to hear about in-race dynamics at the front. Serious question - did anyone buy you a beer afterwards to celebrate?


Haha. I made my first triathlon paycheck so I bought the pizza and beer!!


What are you going to do with the $5 leftover? 😁😉


Ha! It’s all going to holiday booze and Xmas presents. More than $5 tho! $1500 for 6th.


1500 * .70 (30% taxes) = 1050


He's 28 and wife is in school and he can train a lot - I highly doubt he is in the 24% federal bracket (giving 6% for state).


He’s a marketing director in California. I’d be shocked if he wasn’t at least there.


Lol. DM for detailed financials? Not sure where this is going or why it matters but guess that’s the beauty of slowtwitch… but yes most is going to taxes and I make plenty of $ working at a publicly traded tech company as most directors do based out of SF Bay Area

I do love ST for this very reason.

If you could post your last 6 years of tax returns that'd be great. Maybe a complete biography from birth while you're at it. (admittedly, I'd read a page or two just because, well, I'm an active ST forum user, so it'd be par for the course.)

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [TriSki20] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Awesome stuff! Okay one more serious personal question. How much do you weigh? Sorry if I missed it in the OP.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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He mentioned already……

am 5’9 163 lbs
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DrAlexHarrison wrote:
Awesome stuff! Okay one more serious personal question. How much do you weigh? Sorry if I missed it in the OP.

I am 5'9" and weigh 160-165 pounds depending on how much beer I have been drinking
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Re: Pro 70.3 numbers for the tri nerds - 6th place pro @ Indian Wells 70.3 [PB252] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PB252 wrote:
Nice race and congrats on your year.

Not so much a single question, but I’d like to hear about your progression from 2017- present. After a quick search it looks like your improvement over the years is pretty outstanding, going back to the start with some very average performances, avg bike and mid 1:30s 70.3, runs before some real solid races in 2020-2022. Was there Aha moment or is it a combination of consistency, experience, coaching, time, etc?

I'll second this. Would also be curious your pre-triathlon athletic background.

To me it looks like a pretty quick rise from beginner to really good in the first couple years, so pretty typical of someone with natural elite ability learning the sport. If it was 5-10 years of nothing special then the rise, there might be some more interesting lessons to be conveyed. Interested to hear nonetheless.
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