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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Very interesting, I've rode several miles on 2 of the 3. The ISM PR2 was a great saddle for me until I started going beyond 75/80miles. As soon as I tried a Coob Randee I knew I had found my saddle. 100+ Has been perfect on the Randee.
I have recently picked up a Dash Stock Strike and have found it to be a nice change with it being less padded and narrower than the Randee. Long ride - the jury is still out.
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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ditto
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Travis R wrote:
The PN series is pretty hit or miss. The 1.0 tends to get tossed out in favor of the PN 1.1. The shapes are identical, but the padding is different. The PN 2.1 has been mostly a flop for me, with reactions generally in the "oh God, no!" range, but I recently had a guy fall in love with it, so there is hope.

The Fifty-Five seems to be a bit too firm for most. You really have to get the angle right on that one (I start with the front half level, and usually take it down a degree). If it is in the top 3 for a particular rider, it will often get beat by the PR 2.0.

Typically, I do a process of elimination - test everything quickly, with a couple of quick tweaks, pick the top 3-5 and then spend a bit more time on each of those to come up with a winner. So, there are a lot of good options like the Fifty-Five and the PN series that will end up in that top 3-5, but not be the final winner.

So my issue with the PN/Attack was that it was too wide. The nose of the jof 55 is narrower and I felt a lot more stable (hips not rocking) on it. I couldn't imagine going to the PR series as that seems way too wide for me. I guess I'm just surprised you found people going from a 55 to a PR series. Am I missing something?

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [ITRIhard] [ In reply to ]
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ITRIhard wrote:
I use the Cobb max and love it. What is the main difference from that and the randee? I also see lots of people using the MAX seems pretty popular in my area.

There are more differences than similarities, and the main similarity (that I'm taking from it) is in the nose width. The max has a pretty stout nose for a traditional saddle. The Randee is kind of a weird hybrid of traditional and noseless, with a nose much narrower than noseless saddles, but more substantial than most tradtional saddles. I see that working for the "get up on the rivet and crank away" crowd, so that's what I perceive as the place where these two intersect and where the Randee kind of steals from the Max's base.

The differences are more considerable - the width of the back half of the saddle (Randee is quite a bit wider, although I need to measure), the padding (Max is much more padded), and the contour of the top are all big differences.

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [NealH] [ In reply to ]
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NealH wrote:
Just curious, what Tri type saddle do find most popular on road bikes?

In my shop, the Randee is number one noseless for the roadie option. But, it's kind of hard to call the Randee a noseless. It's kind of a hybrid. In white, it looks like a toilet seat. Another of my favorite "hybrids" is the WTB Speed Comp. It's a $40, relatively short saddle. It has a good texture and padding where you can nose it down a bit and it will work pretty well. I don't know if it's one of my top 5 options for triathletes, but it can sometimes introduce an interesting twist to the saddle testing plot line.

The roadies seem to gravitate towards the traditional shapes. I think there is a certain element of "that's what you're supposed to ride" there and maybe I subconsciously reinforce that, but the position certainly influences it. With that said, I recently had an ISM Adamo Road work for one guy (top closer to level than the typical "rails level" approach used as a starting point). A traditional saddle that has been a pleasant surprise is the WTB Volt Comp. It comes in 3 widths and retails for $40.

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
So my issue with the PN/Attack was that it was too wide. The nose of the jof 55 is narrower and I felt a lot more stable (hips not rocking) on it. I couldn't imagine going to the PR series as that seems way too wide for me. I guess I'm just surprised you found people going from a 55 to a PR series. Am I missing something?

I don't think you're missing anything - it's just a matter of saddles being very individual. If anything, the "wideness" is a perception of not only the measured with at the very end (and most of these are in that 55-58mm range, if I remember correctly), but also the way the saddle transitions back from the nose to the widest part. The PN series, while the N stands for "narrow", are kind of a "straight back" shape, in which they are a bit more angular than the more curved in PRs. So, they get wider immediately as you go from front to back, while the PR series stays the same width for a couple of centimeters before starting to widen out. The PR series are also around 3cm shorter, which influences where you may gravitate to on the seating surface.

One thing that I've found that will have a big influence on the probability of acceptance of a PN series is to bring the nose down a degree or so after the first try. That will often elicit a more positive impression, but not necessarily enough for it to be the final selection.

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Ex-cyclist wrote:
Which one are you reviewing. I've been looking at them for a while but the price is off putting given that I'm not normally a noseless saddle person.

Stage.9 in "narrow."

I'm skeptical of pricey saddles as well, but I will say the construction quality is impeccable. Even if I didn't actually think it was a good saddle for me, I'd still say it's probably the most beautifully made saddle I've ever seen. As it is, it happens to be both a great saddle and a work of art.


"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp | Game Designer @ Zwift

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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting and thank you for tossing those three out there... I don't have a local bike shop currently.

Building a new bike here sometime soon and might look at the Mistica. Was riding a Shimano with a cutout that was okay but not great... tough one trying to find a saddle without local resources.
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Travis for sharing those valuable pieces of advice.

One remark you made re. the Mistica surprised me. You ended your note with " Start with the rails level. ".

Do you mean that you should not level the saddle flat but downward so that the rails are leveled ? Why that ?

Many thanks for your explanations which might help me with the disconfort I have currenlty using my mistica.

Alex from France
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Alex2204] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not Travis but feel I am pretty well versed on the Fizik Mistica. It's definitely a saddle meant to be rails level / slightly nose down, and ridden off the front. Not on your sit bones but on your pubic bones, facilitating a forward pelvic rotation engaging glute muscles and helping your fit.

Your saddle is only *half* of the comfort and fit equation, your cockpit is the other half. A saddle with a slight downward tilt will conform to your body better and provide a slight vector of force on your body forward to your cockpit. Now, if your cockpit is flat you'll just slide off the front, but if you have slightly tilted pads and ski bend extensions your cockpit will provide a slight vector of force backward toward your saddle and lock you in.

This makes you "the wedge". You are the keystone at the top of an arch in architecture. You are locked into your fit, with your bike working for you instead of you working for your bike, and you are relaxed and focused on merely producing power with your legs.

To sum up, tilt your noseless saddle slightly downward. It's a key part of a good TT position.




Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | Ventum Bicycles and Frames
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Alex2204] [ In reply to ]
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Alex2204 wrote:
Thanks Travis for sharing those valuable pieces of advice.

One remark you made re. the Mistica surprised me. You ended your note with " Start with the rails level. ".

Do you mean that you should not level the saddle flat but downward so that the rails are leveled ? Why that ?

Many thanks for your explanations which might help me with the disconfort I have currenlty using my mistica.

Alex from France

Hi Alex!

You are correct - by leveling the rails, the top of the saddle will be angled down at approximately 5.5 degrees. That might seem like quite a bit, but it will allow the pelvis to roll forward into the aero position. From there, you might find that dumps a bit too much weight on the shoulders and maybe the knees. You might find yourself fighting gravity a bit, where you need to scoot back on the saddle because you slide down/forward a bit.

You can then start to tilt the nose up a bit to stabilize the pelvis on the saddle and unload the shoulders. We're looking for that sweet spot where you don't have to engage the muscles of the core and torso to maintain your position, without putting undue stress on the spine. We want the upper body relaxed to maximize energy conservation so you can put the power into the pedals.

With all that said, what kind of discomfort are you feeling with the Mistica? Do you have the regular or wide?

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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It's scary how much I agree with your fit philosophy.

My YouTubes

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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [LAI] [ In reply to ]
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thanks

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | Ventum Bicycles and Frames
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks to both of you.

My disconfort is essentially pain points around the pubis bone. At some point, I start moving on the saddle to release the pain and it obviously get worse...

I essentially ride the Regular size but also have the Large version. According to the website of Fizik, I fall between the Regular and Large - I weight 75kg. Do you have any specific reco in this respect ? I might try the Large one with the nose tilted down with the rails flat.

When setting up my tri bike, I followed the reco of the British cycling association : https://www.britishcycling.org.uk/...Triathlon-Bike-Fit-0
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks; this is the explanation of extension grip i was seeking in the other thread!
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Been having trouble with my mystica until i read this from you (and ericmpro). I have the large and think I need the regular, but interestingly enough angling it down has solved my issues with sliding off the front of the saddle.
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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I gor a regular mistica about to sell. Rode it 5x on the trainer. Pm if interested
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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I am an Ism fan myself. Just curious on your thoughts and experience on the general lifespan of these saddles?
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Travis R wrote:
Alex2204 wrote:
Thanks Travis for sharing those valuable pieces of advice.

One remark you made re. the Mistica surprised me. You ended your note with " Start with the rails level. ".

Do you mean that you should not level the saddle flat but downward so that the rails are leveled ? Why that ?

Many thanks for your explanations which might help me with the disconfort I have currenlty using my mistica.

Alex from France


Hi Alex!

You are correct - by leveling the rails, the top of the saddle will be angled down at approximately 5.5 degrees. That might seem like quite a bit, but it will allow the pelvis to roll forward into the aero position. From there, you might find that dumps a bit too much weight on the shoulders and maybe the knees. You might find yourself fighting gravity a bit, where you need to scoot back on the saddle because you slide down/forward a bit.

You can then start to tilt the nose up a bit to stabilize the pelvis on the saddle and unload the shoulders. We're looking for that sweet spot where you don't have to engage the muscles of the core and torso to maintain your position, without putting undue stress on the spine. We want the upper body relaxed to maximize energy conservation so you can put the power into the pedals.

With all that said, what kind of discomfort are you feeling with the Mistica? Do you have the regular or wide?

Does this hold true for all noseless saddles? I'm currently on an SMP dynamic on all my bikes and I've been having a hard time finding and fitting a noseless saddle because either they are too wide or the narrower models have too narrow of a channel.
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Just found this on Fizik FAQ - might interest some of you:

« How can I measure the anatomic center of my saddle?
The anatomic center of our saddles is identified in as the point where the saddle is 75mm wide, regardless of which part of the saddle you start measuring it.»
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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How is a "good" saddle match defined? I get small saddle sores on the trainer with my PN3.1 while using BodyGlide/DZNuts and have to move around occasionally, but probably spend less than 5 minutes out of a 3 hour ride sitting up. Some discomfort and sores are there, but not enough to require stopping. In an IM I can stay in aero the whole time aside from when I grab bottles in aid stations.

I can't decide whether the sores are enough reason to try the Mistica. Is "good fit" defined as almost no discomfort and zero saddle sores? Or is what I have as good as it gets?
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Can someone tell me the width of the Mistica nose?
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Fresh79] [ In reply to ]
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65mm on the large and 55mm on the regular

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | Ventum Bicycles and Frames
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Any feedback on the Specialized new Power Mimic? I am fascinated after their scientific redesign.

https://www.bicycling.com/...gumI5ALy011wOvPwqNdU
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Re: PSA: The Noseless Saddles Triathletes Should Try [Trigirl357] [ In reply to ]
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Hi!

Sorry for my slow reply. Regarding lifespan, it does depend on the saddle and the rider (how's that for the most vague answer possible? lol!). I don't want to make it sound like I am bashing any particular model, but I have seen a couple of products that don't hold up quite as well as others. I've also seen some companies have some bad product runs but they supported the rider and provided a replacement.

Heavier riders, by nature, will tend to make a saddle "break down" a bit more quickly than someone who is lighter. The choice of materials in the saddle will also matter - not only the padding, but even the underlying structural pieces, and things like rail length - a short rail doesn't have as much adjustment, but it does put the support points closer together. I've seen some very inexpensive saddles that are basically just plastic that don't last long at all, and others (WTB Comp series comes to mind) that, while inexpensive, seem to hold up pretty well. On the other end of the spectrum, I've seen some relatively expensive saddles that broke down pretty quickly.

One rider I had worked with a few times a couple of years ago was on a $40 Forte (the Performance Bike house brand). He was also about 280 pounds. He rode almost daily, with a century just about every weekend. I think he got about 4 months out of it before it was noticeably bent/bowed down in the middle. But, it was comfortable for him, as it had taken to his shape. He came back with a new saddle - the exact same brand and model - and it didn't feel right when we installed it because it was new. Kind of like Brooks saddles - they are about impossible to just offer as a demo because they almost immediately start to become one with you. So, there are plusses and minuses.

There are even plusses and minuses within the plusses and minuses - for example, if you have a saddle that has worn to you, I can look at it and tell you which leg is longer. White saddles with graphics on the side of the nose are especially nice for this purpose.

Specifically speaking about the Mistica - I feel like it is a very stout saddle. I've seen a few that have had maybe 3000-5000 miles on them and they are holding up well. I will say that Fizik's products do feel like they are well made - they aren't cheap, but when you hold one in your hand, they feel like they are high quality. I don't know if that's a very good metric - it's not like you're buying a saddle to hold in your hand all day - you're looking for an answer about if that saddle is going to feel good day in and day out, under your pelvis, for years to come.

I don't know if I answered your question very well or not, but I hope that's some food for thought!

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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