I am pretty much right there with ya. During the summer I ride a longer ride in a National Park near me that has 4 lanes along the coast and is a nice 11 mile loop. Before 8 a.m. on Saturday or Sunday that place is PACKED with cyclists. I have no problem being inside on the trainer as opposed to on the road with distracted drivers. I love triathlon and cycling but not enough to die for it to prove a point. And no, if you are a skilled cyclist, you do not lose your skills on the trainer.

I've been on Zwift for nearly a year. In that time I can pretty much count on one hand all of the times I've ridden outside, aside from organized fondos/centuries/duathlons. It was different when we lived in an area with light traffic and considerate motorists. <1 hour away and it's a very different scenario. And I feel like I haven't endured 2.5 years of cancer Hell, only to risk being taken out by an a-hole rolling coal. The only outdoor rides my family does at all, nowadays, are gravel. Just in the past week an elite cyclist in our area was hit while riding. After seeing the photo of his bike (what was left of it), I can't believe he is alive.

I'll still run outside in most weather, but that's mostly because we have decent paved paths. They're just not great for riding -- lots of cross streets, driveways, curves, ruts, and other users who are mostly oblivious and/or walking dogs on long leads.

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My training has been 95% indoors this year, and it's really made me appreciate my outdoor rides. When I go outside, it's either 100% for fun with friends on what would have been an "easy" day on bik. paths. Or I work on my bike skills and bomb around the suburban cul-du-sacs working on handling and seeing how fast I can make the corners or how tight I can make my dead turns around the manhole in the middle of the cul-du-sac. I'll also head out with my race wheels if it's windy/rainy to get some experience there as well, and that's pretty damn fun too!

The other thing I realized when I went inside as well was that when I was really focused on my training, I never really did take in the scenery. My mind was jumping between what my power/RPE was, if I need to start an interval soon and how long, scanning the road ahead of me, figuring out where my next turn was going to be, and if I needed to take in some nutrition/water.

meh.

I just couldn't get into it. I'd rather watch youtube or Netflix. Virtual racing holds very little appeal to me where you can't read body language.

Besides. I'm starting out on the 80/20 plan for the bike and run, so it's mostly about getting on and riding relatively easy, with some harder efforts sprinkled in.

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Can we make these people wear a special bright flashy light or helmet sticker or something so we can avoid them during an event?

Like, seriously.

I understand indoor riding--90+% of my rides are indoors, but you really can't think of any reasons to ride outdoors???

I’ve been 90+% indoor riding for a year now. Just raced Augusta 70.3 Sunday and set a bike PR and overall PR. I don’t feel that I lost any skill. I held my own at around 40 mph on a descent, was able to grab bottles from aid stations while still rolling, pass without issue, and avoid potholes without crashing.

My wife loves it and I’ve gotten accustomed to being able to get a quality session in at any time. I still enjoy going out for organized rides and will continue to do so. But my weekday riding has improved dramatically with indoor riding.

I probably did 60% of my running indoors on the treadmill as well. Cut 16 minutes off my run time this year as well.

My n=1 is that indoor training is highly effective, more efficient, and safer than outdoor training. However, outdoor training gives you that mental boost that you just don’t get from fluorescent lighting. I still see myself doing the majority of next triathlon build indoors.

Like, NOT.

Anyway who is a die-hard indoor training person is not a noob, by any stretch. We're seriously enough cyclists that if we did have deficiencies in bike handling, we would have addressed it lonnnggg time ago.

This concept that 'indoor training = poor bike handler in triathlon races' is a bunch of total BS.

In fact, you find a way to mark all the people in a triathlon race that train more than once a week regularly on a bike trainer, and I'd try as hard as possible to ride WITH them as they'd be reliable riders. Very different than the one-n-doners or new sporadic cyclists who are literally weaving all over the road, and totally unaware at how fast the faster guys come up from the back.

Now if we're talking bike criterium riders, ok, that's a different story - you gotta ride criteriums to race criteriums with good judgment. But you shoud near-never see that kind of close-quarters riding in triathlon, unless you are cheat-drafting.

I’m toying with the idea of buying a treadmill. Which one do you have ? Any recommendations?
Thanks,
Will

I have a Sole F85 and have used it for approximately 2.5 years without any issue. There are better ones out there I’m sure, but I got a good deal on this one from someone moving.

Make sure you get one with a wide belt. If you do lose concentration for a moment, your feet don’t automatically land on the plastic siding. It lets you move laterally some too to break up to the monotony.

I can't say that it's a fair assessment that only things like crits or cyclocross take outdoor riding and handling skills to be safe.

People take risks to gain time. If you don't EVER ride outdoors, like the original topic was about (100% indoors)........that's going to eventually be a problem. Maybe not the first year, or second year........but it'll bite someday.

So yeah, you're right. A first year 100% indoor rider, or 2nd year person, that's coming off years riding outdoors may be fine. What about a 5th year 100% indoor rider?

Especially if someone tinkers with the bike somehow and the shake down ride is on a trainer. Brakes fine indoors and farting up/down the street for 100 yards......must be good, right?

Every time I mount the TT bike outdoors there's some butt pucker moment. And I do race bikes in a way that necessitates handling skills.

The reality is that anyone who is die hard enough to ride their trainer near-100% of the time, several times a week, for large parts if not most of the year, will be VERY aware of whatever serious limitations they have on the bike, and will take time to go outdoors to fix it before the race. You don't dedicate yourself to 100% serious training, and then willfully ignore the reality that the race is outdoors - anyone that committed to bike improvement will have absolutely done what it takes to become competent enough to race safely outdoors.

Even diehard folks like me who do most training indoors, take it outdoors before race day, to make sure the equipment works fine outdoors as well as to refresh any muscle memory that needs refreshing. And then we'll do it again, as needed if there are any limitations. As we would with the treadmill, or even the Vasa.

I do think it's important to distinguish between triathlon race bike skills vs cyclocross, gravel or criterium riding. I'm under no illusion that my indoor training is helping me become a more SKILLED non-triathlon racer - if I were doing any of those 3 bike-specific event, I would literally enter in the 'noob' category, and declare myself as risky/dangerous as the next noob over since I clearly don't have enough experience with pack riding to do well given I've done only one criterium. But triathlon bike handling is a lot different and absolutely is easier, given the absence of close quarters riding, and relatively steady effort.

The notion of a diehard indoor rider being dangerous out on the triathlon bike course is a total load of BS. The ones who are weaving all over the road, literally right into your path, are people who haven't trained much on the bike at all, and are often rookies. They are NOT folks who are hammering it on Zwift or Trainerroad day in day out, no way.

Anything of $1400 will work very well.

North of $2000, you are paying for more durable parts that will require less service over long periods of time. It's why a Landice L7 will cost over $3k, yet do pretty much the exact same thing a $1500 Sole F80 will do (I have a Sole F80). In a rough high-humidity environment, and with a sweaty dude like me dumping tons of sweat onto it day in and day out, that F80 will wear out something within 3-7 years and will need replacing, whereas the pricier ones will withstand more abuse over the long term.

I've seen posts by treadmill maintenance people that estimate 7 yrs worth of use for a typical well-utilized single-owner treadmill in the $1500 range before something wears out and needs replacement.

I love how Lionel Sanders himself has a pricey Woodway in his pain cave, but seems to do most of his running on his much cheaper NordicTrack TM (which also is located in his prime training space.) He too says he has replaced nearly the entire thing several times over!

My thoughts on the above:

1) My wife and I ride together as does my son. We enjoy it as we are riding together and getting a good workout. Outside we can't ride together and both get a good workout.
2) Do you really explore new places? When I used to ride a lot outside, it was the same 4 or 5 routes.
3) I guess for some. I not a big fan of another sources tracking my every move so never been on Strava.
4) Agree - these are the non-workout rides my wife and I so.

Close to 2 years for me

Dumb trainer and YouTube.

Then again I used to ride a turbo trainer 30+ In a dank moldy basement no TV and no Radio

Depends on the conditions. It does take some time and experience to ride in crosswinds and if you don't make it a point to work on that outside, you will drift all over the road and possibly over-correct if a gust hits you. But in triathlon, there's seldom a reason to pass close enough to somebody where that really becomes an issue...

And I will say this too for everybody (like me) who does most of their training indoors. Working on your cornering at speed can save you a second or two for every corner you take. Depending on the course that could be worth quite a few Watts and absolutely is in your best interest to put in a couple skills sessions into your training regimen. Like aim to take at least 25-50 corners at speed during your session at a minimum.

When it comes to bike handling, people don't know what they don't know. Can they hold a line while grabbing a bottle? Get off on a gravel shoulder without overreacting? Avoid gravel and potholes? Corner without cutting off someone else's line? Get clipped in starting on a hill?

If triathletes had crit handling skills, or even solid group riding skills, there would be no crashes in triathlon. I don't know if indoor riding is to blame, but there are many sketchy, bordering on dangerous triathletes out there.

Just a general comment on the whole indoor riding/bike handling thing. I do most of my riding indoors and I race CX. The only time I do CX is actually at the races. My handling is just fine and I'm not from an off road background. I'm not saying I'm great, but I'm not slipping and falling like a lot of other people are and I'm a upper mid pack Cat 4 in New England (just for context, we've got a lot of people here, as opposed to other smaller CX scenes). I really don't have anything against outdoor riding, I love it, but especially during the week when I'm working from home, it's easier to bang out a workout and get back to my job than to do all this prep work for outdoor riding and then not even get in quality intervals.

Does not Zwift:

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I agree that there are quite a few clueless riders out there - I'm sure all of you have had the joy in nearly every race to dodge a slower rider literally riding right into your path on an uphill climb as they swerve all the way across the road to stay upright, and you're literally yelling for them to watch out.

And I seriously doubt indoor training has anything to do with that. I will definitely take any bet that anyone who is die hard enough to indoor train on the bike regularly, is serious enough about the bike to be a safe triathlon rider. You don't train that hard indoors and simultaneously be that clueless about your outdoor ability - you test it beforehand. There is not a single indoor training person who'd risk all that hard work indoors just to show up on race day and swerve all over the road like a noob, as much as the only-outdoor folks would like to believe it.

I embrance the newcomers to our sport, and I consider it my responsibility to be aware of them as the clueless new ones veer into my path on race day. I'm not even remotely a stud fast rider, but I seriously believe that most of these riders have no idea how fast someone can come up an 8+% incline when they're pushing 300ish watts, which is why they feel like they have all the time in the world to zigzag across the road. I've had volunteers at aid stations casually cross the road right into my path as they're expecting the typical 5mph rider, and then you come barreling along at 15+.

And just like that... a cyclist was killed by a motorist 15 minutes from my house this morning.

I guess I can see this. I live in an urban area between Denver and Boulder and the roads are soooo crowded. That's why I have pretty much switched to off road, it's a nice option to have, if you have it.

Yet the descending ability of a LOT of riders at the 70.3 Worlds in Nice was terrible. 30km of mildly technical, but fast descents and so many riders had no idea of what line to take and braking when it wasn't needed. Triathletes have always been notorious for bad handling skills, but I was surprised how bad it was for supposedly the elite age groupers.

I trained through a Melbourne (Australia) Winter for the race. Yes I did indoor rides (usually on the rollers) when the weather was really bad, but knowing the course I was going to race on, I did at least one ride with some fast technical descents every week. What I witnessed in the race tells me most did not prepare like this. And I believe the situation has become worse due to the popularity of indoor riding.

I'm happy to report that I'm going on about 40+ years of riding outdoors exclusively and loving it! Not entirely true, I did go about 5 times to an indoor velodrome to have some fun on the track :-)

Have no plans or desire to start riding indoors on a trainer.

I do most of my training indoors but get out usually once a week for my long ride. But even if I did all my riding outside nothing anywhere close to me would prepare me for descents. There are zero hills by me and even if I drive to find some they’re all not technical. So to say that indoor riding is the reason for bad descending is a bit harsh.

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