Really curious how it plays out. Lionel seemed to have figured out that with an even pace, he can easily get sub-8. But that strategy probably won't get him on a podium at this race. On the other hand, Cam's bike pace is probably not sustainable, either.

My guesses for the future prediction thread:
- Lionel will push harder on the bike this race but still let Cam go. Gradually works his way up during the bike and run to 3rd or 4th depending on Iden bonking or not
- Iden comes off the bike in 3rd behind Jan and Cam, passes Cam on the run but doesn't reduce the gap to Jan by more than a minute. Comes in 2nd or bonks
- Cam catches Iden on the bike, who stays with him for a while before he also let's him go. Cam get's close to Jan before T2 but get caught by Iden on the run. 2nd or 3rd place depending on Iden bonking or not
- Jan leads wire-to-wire in another master class

thinking lionel belongs in the same bracket as literal multiple Kona / 70.3 WC winners over the last decade, because he got a 2nd place there once and won a soft field arizona race..... and i'm apparently the one living in a fantasy world.

fanboys gonna fanboy.

equating the arizona race to Frankfurt in prestige, strength and depth of field over the last decade, and longer, is a great encapsulation of what one finds on ST as well.

But will this count as a record with a downriver swim?

This is the guy who ridiculed Iden for showing up in Nice on a road bike. Read what he writes in a few threads and put him on your red list as many have done before you.

thinking lionel belongs in the same bracket as literal multiple Kona / 70.3 WC winners over the last decade, because he got a 2nd place there once and won a soft field arizona race..... and i'm apparently the one living in a fantasy world.

fanboys gonna fanboy.

equating the arizona race to Frankfurt in prestige, strength and depth of field over the last decade, and longer, is a great encapsulation of what one finds on ST as well.

I think many if not most people who are fans of LS are not fans because of his resume, but because he's interesting.

devashish_paul wrote:

Jurgen Zack is getting pissed off right now that you're giving all of ths credit to Lionel for finishing second at Kona 2017 and winning no other Ironmans. Jurgen was second at kona 1997 after going sub 8 the same year at Roth (and also not winning) and to my recollecton winning no other Ironmans after that 2nd

Lionel actually backed up his Kona 2017 2nd wiith an 7:54 win in his very next race at Arizona!!!

Here is the link to Lionel's finisher certificate (remember those) :

https://feathersprod.blob.core.windows.net/...932-23E6705B4BDE.pdf

^ This.
He might probably not be as entertaining if he was as strong as Jan.

More relatable, entertaining AF, and a great story teller. Same reason golf fans love John Daly.

I'll bet anyone on this thread, that Lionel can eat 50 eggs, in a hour.

the original response was to add balance and reality to some fanboy nonsense claiming lionel has one of the greatest resumes of the last decade, rather than dragging him down.

it's grossly disrespectful to what the other athletes have worked to achieve

the original response was to add balance and reality to some fanboy nonsense claiming lionel has one of the greatest resumes of the last decade, rather than dragging him down.

it's grossly disrespectful to what the other athletes have worked to achieve, to put lionel in that same bracket for a handful of wins against weak fields and a second place in Kona - work that lionel has steadfastly refused to do to get to that level, as he's always thought he knows best, and every year we get a similar post Kona/ end of season video from him.

those who actually belong in that bracket have even multiple Kona / 70.3 WC wins over that period and on top of that, many wins in the biggest races in the sport outside of Kona and the 70.3 WC's, e.g. Frankfurt and Roth, which have always had some of the most competitive fields, whether they mean anything to you or not is irrelevant, along with last years Daytona race - which lionel did not win either.

lionel has a great resume that many would love, but it's far far off 'one of the greatest resumes over the last decade' - and despite that being obvious, even from a quick scan of results, the fanboys still cry about him getting a 2nd in Kona or 4th in Daytona and claiming he's up there with those who actually win these events - and multiple times. there are many European athletes who have achieved very similar results to lionel, who you wouldn't dream of putting in this 'one of the greatest' brackets. difference is, lionel has this cult fanboy club.


as for the dodging races - he's consistently dodged the 70.3 WC's, not just this year, which has historically even been his strongest distance.

this year, very obviously Tulsa had the stronger field over CdA and yet he chose CdA. he then chose the very obviously weaker field in Copenhagen, where even Wurf wasn't due to race until the last moment, over racing Frankfurt. and instead of simply staying in Europe after the Tri Battle, he chose to fly back and forth to the US. many European athletes perfectly well stay in the US for multiple races across months in order to manage their travel and training, but just another thing that lionel wasn't able to handle.

his reasons for choosing the weaker fields are perfectly understandable, but he can't then come out on youtube yelling about how he seeks out racing the best, as he has done many times, while his fanboys pedal this 'he's one of the greatest' nonsense. reality hurts for this group.

which clown is doing that?

---

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

minimally Lionel has been consistent in saying that Jan, Lange, Iden and Blum are pretty great. It seems to be the one thing he is consistent on...and perhaps racing almost every weekend (well minus St. George, so maybe not that consistent). The guy even created his own race of one person where there was no racing and went 51.3 km in an hour on a velodrome!!! How many guys tried that ???

If you look at my back and fourth with FtStri he's just trying to drag down Lionel's accomplishments and say he's ducked people and not chosen to go to "prestigious" races. There is no way of knowing whether or not Lionel has chosen to duck people and second guessing his decisions based on the blow ups we've seen when we know what the goal is: Get to Kona.

I've been racing Tri for 5 years and following it for 4 and I don't know how Frankfort is meant to be prestigious at all. If it is, great I guess. But it doesn't carry mythology for me considering I'm a "new" fan of triathlon and that the races for me that hold any mythology are Kona and Roth to some extent.

If you look at my back and fourth with FtStri he's just trying to drag down Lionel's accomplishments and say he's ducked people and not chosen to go to "prestigious" races. There is no way of knowing whether or not Lionel has chosen to duck people and second guessing his decisions based on the blow ups we've seen when we know what the goal is: Get to Kona.

I've been racing Tri for 5 years and following it for 4 and I don't know how Frankfort is meant to be prestigious at all. If it is, great I guess. But it doesn't carry mythology for me considering I'm a "new" fan of triathlon and that the races for me that hold any mythology are Kona and Roth to some extent.

Frankfurt is a huge race in Europe and has been for a long time. It is the European IM Championship and not scheduled for right after Kona like AZ or FL, for example. It isn't a big deal that you didn't know of its status but I'd advise against railing against being corrected on this. It just isn't a great look.

I agree that there are some people who are just jealous and are now stuck in the "Lionel sucks" category. I see no problem with him choosing Copenhagen over Frankfurt. He needed the KQ. I personally get frustrated with the chopping and changing and thus likely never approaching his potential.

frankfurt is more prestigious if you're european, especially if you're from germany. especially if you're a young german based racer, and you haven't been around long enough to have seen the arc in the sport. germany does have the truly prestigious race, but it's not frankfurt. IM lost the most prized race outside of Kona, which was IM germany (in roth). that race became challenge roth. IM placed a race in frankfurt because it needed a german race, but you could throw as much prize money as you want at that race and it will never be roth.