Having the exact same feeling. Did first IM last summer and doing MOO in Sept, but just not focused. Already excluded the possibility of doing an IM next year. As MOO gets closer, I hope to get more excited, in fact I hope once racing season really starts I will. Just tired of training and no real racing. And the weather hasn't been great here, so I have spent alot of time on the trainer, and that gets old.

A few years ago I read an article in a runner's magazine about the difference between the first and second marathon. this came at a good time for me, because i was in full swing training for mary number 2.

the article talked about the dynamics of running your first versus the second and others thereafter. it pointed out that during the first marathon training, there is a ton of support. friends, family, co-workers, neighbors, etc, everyone wants to cheer you on, talk with you about the event and what it's like to train, ask you a ton of questions, and even show up to race day in support of you.

the second one however, is a different story. most people don't understand why you would want to do it again. the support falls off, and instead of thinking you're brave people think you're nuts. race day cheering crowd (of friends, etc) is much smaller and so on.

so in reality, doing the second one is harder because the dynamics are do different. when you do the second one, you do it for yourself ultimately, because there is only a little bit of motivation/support outside of that. Quite different than your first, that's for sure.

in my experiences, this article was right on. my office had a huge party for me, my friends and family were all over it. when the second one came, it was like hearing crickets. where was my applause? my attention? the questions? the interest in my training and well wishes? it was all gone, as if it was not special anymore. but it was special to me and that's what mattered.

now, you may have none of these feelings or experiences. but one thing is for sure. if you feel that you want or need to spend time doing other things, then by all means do that. finish this one, appreciate it and take a time out to figure it out from here. there is no obligation whatsoever, so don't get caught up.

and, you're probably a little burned out. just get to race day and you'll be so happy you did.

good luck,

kitty
PS- and if you're burned out on training, go and do a worthwhile race of some distance so you can get jazzed. for me the races turn me on, and keep me going. maybe you just need a little bit of that fire. training solo for long amounts of time can get old. go race!

in the lead up to my 2nd time at MOO last year, i had the same sort of feelings. injuries and illness only compounded them too. i focused on enjoying the training as that is truly what i like to do. especially riding my bike. when i crossed the line it certainly didn't have the same feeling as my first, but it was a very good feeling nontheless. this time i actually heard him call me an ironman and in all honestly, i felt more ironlike too. kind of like the 1st time wasnt' a fluke.

this year isn't starting off much better (injury/illness wise) but again, i'm focusing on what i enjoy about this sport. unfortunatley it isn't riding in hail/sun/rain/snow/wind but still, i'm trying. :) i'm hoping some training rides with a friend who will be doing his first in Madison this summer will have some effect on me too. i still giggle when i recall the shellshocked look he had about him after sign up last Sept.

good luck.



k

I had the exact same feeling last year when I did CDA, right about this time. I was cooked, like well done cooked. Some of my experienced IM friends advised me to hang tough, that I could do whatever I wanted when I was done with the race, but they didn't really have a lot of empathy for me. I had to go to my non-IM friends to whine, and they were really good about listening and boosting my morale.

I would advise doing something fun ASAP to get your mind off of things. You are in a funk and need to bring yourself out of it. The race is not that far away and the taper is just around the corner!

Crossing the finish line at IM CDA was one of the best moments of my life, they moved the finish line last year and you get to run several blocks with cheering fans. You only get that experience at an Ironman.

In the meantime, go do something fun that isn't related to tris. NOW!!!

Basically I participate in triathlon in place of golf. Need I say more..

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Imagination is more important than knowledge. Albert Einstein

"So I keep thinking that I might get to the finish line this time and say "so what?"

IMO you would do well to do that. Make no mistake, I am a disicple of what I am about to describe, but this sport it about self-absorption, selfishness and the constant stroking of an either inflamed (in my case) or inadequate ego.

People do Ironman for as many reasons as there are people who do Ironman. It isn't generic. There is no one reason. But your question, "Could my time be better spent?" rings so true. The answer is: Absolutely.

I know people who use Ironman as a surrogate for mental help they sorely need. It is avoidance. It is proving something that doesn't matter. In the grand scheme of things, it is utterly insignificant. But personally, it can be very rewarding and significant.

People who do Ironman to "prove they are tough" or demonstrate they are "in control" usually are neither. The people who really are tough have made difficult relationships work, are dilligent and dedicated to their family, friends and work and are well rounded as individuals.

That isn't me. I have an (artificially) fortified ego that is frequently knocked back down to size and has to be "repaired". Ironman is a relatively non-destructive outlet or mechanism for that. Sometimes you kick ass, sometimes you get your ass kicked. Personally it is a big accomplishment. To other people, it only proves youo are too stubborn to stop banging your head against a wall and get a life.

That's me.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Casey,

You really hit the nail on the head with your post. What you said directly applies to me (except for the fact that I have not completed an IM yet).

I have a young family. My wife stays at home to take care of our young children aged 4 and 2. I believe everyone is entitled to 'me' time. Where I struggle is that the 'me' time is a hell of a lot of 'me' time when training for an IM. I feel a sense of guilt before I even start training for an IM in 2006. I hear people on here state that you can complete an IM with as little as 10 hours of training per week, but let's face it, to race an IM you need significantly more hours per week than this and over a long period of time.

Some say they do not impact the family because they train before they get up in the morning - but let's face it - you are still spending a lot of hours doing something entirely selfish. Why not get up before everyone else and do something that benefits the family. I can see doing sports like running because the amount of hours required to become competent is far far less than IM and you still have the benefits of physical fitness.

Here is where I struggle....IM has been on my mind ever since I was 16 years old and watching Dave Scott's domination of the Hawaii Ironman. All the other teenagers looked up to pro hockey players whereas my idol was Dave Scott. Nobody knew who Dave Scott was. I feel like if I don't complete (and hopefully race) IM Hawaii at least once, I will have cheated myself. This is something I have to do - but I will likely only do it for one season. I will need to race 2 ironmans. I will race IMC to qualify for IMH in 2006. After this, I will likely sell my bike and take up some other sport that works in well with family experiences.

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Adrian in Vancouver

An excellent topic and some excellent posts.

Unlike lesser races, IMs it seems cannot be separated from the rest of ones life. In my limited experience, it seems that if you are using IM to escape or going through the motions out of habit, or forcing it to happen in an unsettled or trying time in your life, when perhaps deep down you know you need to be addressing other life issues, it can be very hard to focus and even harder to have that sublime high that IM can deliver when it all comes together.

But I still believe that the IM experience, *at the right time in ones life* can be a lot more than a selfish ego-jerk. It can be a vision quest, a stripping away of the outer layers of self to find the true core, a taking of the red pill. But whether the time is right (for the 1st or 100th IM) requires continual reexamination, questioning of life's goals and purposes.

As for me, I coincidentally just "got my mojo back" on todays run. After IMNZ I took about 10 days off, and since then I have been running everyday just because I like it. No training plan, no HRM, no watch even. And today for the first time I got that itch back to continue my (selfish? pointless?) quest for the perfect IM day. I am looking at late fall races, but still need to consider whether another race in 05 is the right thing for me to do at this time and place in my life.


Note - I am single, unattached. (and i suppose a shrink may well say that i have been using IM in the past to stay that way!!!!). Seems like IMers with spouses and, more significantly, children, may have a much tougher time finding the truly right time to train for and race in an IM.

I need to add another point...

One big motivator for doing a season of IM's is because I really think it will be cool for my kids to look at their old man and think that he was a fast bastard. Perhaps selfish again, but I think it is great for children to have role models that are not wusses.

I ran a 5k race last year and won. True, there were no notables in the race, but the look and excitement on my kids faces was uncomparable. They still mention it to this day. I will be doing the same race this year and I won't say what the race is because some of the Vancouver slowtwitcher's may show up and I cannot risk not winning this again. I hope you understand that if you do show up and you start to pass me in the closing kilometer I will have no choice but to trip you - after all my kids are expecting their Dad to "kick some ass".

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Adrian in Vancouver

"Note - I am single, unattached. (and i suppose a shrink may well say that i have been using IM in the past to stay that way!!!!). Seems like IMers with spouses and, more significantly, children, may have a much tougher time finding the truly right time to train for and race in an IM."

You got that right. I am doing my first IM in CdA next month and a lot of the comments in this thread resonate with me. I think this is my one and only IM since it is just too hard for me (and more importantly my family) to keep this up. My kids are young and into Little League which of course runs concurrently with prime IM CDA training time. I was just want to experience the race once then go back to more sane half IM and Oly races.

When I was training for my first Ironman, a friend asked me: "And when you finish the IM, what do you have? Couldn't you have spent the time learning to play an instrument or learning another language?"
My response should have been: "And how many languages do you speak? How many instruments do you play."
Certainly, there are more productive ways to spend your time, that may give you a skill or talent that will stay with you. The question is, will you use the time you get by NOT training for an IM wisely?

[quote]since then I have learned to play a musical instrument, learned another language,[/quote] - Casey got it right -- he took the time and used it wisely. My fear is that if I stop without a different goal, the time will be frittered away on even more meaningless pursuits.
IM training isn't evil, isn't bad. It is selfish, self-indulgent. Like most such things, it should probably be done in moderation and fit into your life appropriately.
That being said, this ST'er is definitely NOT following my own advice. must. . . stop. . . the. . . madness

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under-trained and over-tapered. . . .yet still hopeful . . . does that make me an optimist or a masochist?

No.

It's all about balance and time management. If you let Ironman dominate your life it will.

You can "race" an Ironman on 10 hours a week if you focus your training and are fit to start out with. I was 3rd in my age group and 27th overall at IMMOO on probably less than 10hrs per week if you averaged the whole year including rest weeks etc. My biggest week all year was about 15hrs.

The thing is you also have an obligation to your family to keep yourself healthy. Before I did Ironmans and when I'm finished I will always work out 6-7hrs per week just to stay reasonably fit and healthy and to keep my weight down. I have a desk job and that is the only exercise I get. EVERYBODY should be doing that. Most occupations are not physically demanding and we need an hour of excercise a day to not go completely soft. Adding another 2-3 hours of training a week to do Ironman races isn't too hard if you manage time wisely (ie running on your lunch break, getting up an hour earlier...etc). If it is now considered selfish to keep yourself reasonably fit and healthy then I guess I'm guilty.

For you guys putting in 20 hr weeks for months at a time and fretting over it: BACK OFF. You don't need to train that much to do well in Ironman racing. If you are a pro then you need to do that but otherwise you don't. Also the sport is much more enjoyable if you aren't killing yourself every week. The body can only handle so much stress. The feelings of guilt and stress many of you are feeling may be due to having too much on your plate.

"this sport it about self-absorption, selfishness and the constant stroking of an either inflamed (in my case) or inadequate ego. "

Whoa Tom pretty huge statemnet - maybe it is correct about you but please don't lump us all together. If you asked my wife she would tell you that my doing IM has been a fantastic thing for me, yes, but it has also been a fantastic thing for my family because it has helped me be a better person. If you think that is self-absorption and selfishness OK - but I got four people in my life (me not included) who would argue against that. And based on my times (current and potential) - there is no ego stroking. IF there were it would be my personality deficite not a product of IM.

IM is not what makes a person self-absorbed or selfish - it is how the individual goes about pursuing that event. Hell you can replace IM with any any activity that is mostly focused on a person's own satisfaction and it can be selfish and self-absorbing if the person allows it to be. All the talk inthe past week that IM is at the root of selfish/self-absorbing personalities and actions is crap in my book.

But to the posters original question - I found the journey to my second IM to be completely different than the first for many of the reasons already stated. And I too began to have some doubts and sadness as my first IM was so rewarding, exciting and difficult - but as I thought this through it seemed to me that because IM is a journey or adventure it should be different. Otherwise it is not a HUGE event - rather it is part of our daily routine.

Once I accepted that this trip was going to be different - and that I had some control over how it went, and thus responsibility for helping determine its value outcome - the whole process because more exciting. Throwing away the old concepts, notions and goals - and replacing them with new ones is what made me love doing IM.

After number 2 (IMAZ) - which had some large disappointments and gigantic satisfactions - I took some time to think about the possibility of number 3 - for me the answer was to keep on this IM path. Maybe number 3 will be the last or just the next block of perparation, exsecution and learning for number 4 - I don't know, but for sure I do not have to worry about that decision until #3 passes.

Someone said something to the effect of IM not letting you live for the moment/day - I think that is wrong. You either do or do not allow your self to live for the moment/day based on how you approach what ever you are doing. And to some degree that is what I see you doing. Let go of why this IM is not like your last, let go of worrying about if you will want to do #3, and let go of what others think an IM expereince (numbe 2 or 200) should be - and let this be your moment, day and adventure.

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http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy

Nice post Casey -

I know many hear need to read things like that (myself included)

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Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

This subject does expose some raw emotions and nerves.

My son was born in the middle of July in 1997. I was right in the middle of my final push prep for IMC in August. A week after he was born I was at the track up on 16th avenue in Vancouver doing mile repeats. I did 7 - 8 that evening. On one repeat I was full of inspiration for training and running, for my son. On the next one, I was feeling like I should be back home with him. It was a bit of an epiphany for me. At the end of the workout, I resolved in my mind that IMC would be my last real serious triathlon race and it was. I was lucky, I had had a 15+ year run of it, in triathlons to then, and walked away with no regrets.

Like you I don't want to pass judgement on anyone, but the bottom line is that training for an IM takes up a great deal of time and money. It's too easy to say that this time and money could be better spent on other things. May be that other thing could be an addiction to drugs or gambling. Who knows?

I just knew that for me, personally, to keep it all in balance, triathlon had to take it's place in the past of my life, not the present and a maybe for the future.

I am in total awe of these people that can do it all - getting up at 4:30 in the morning for the training. That would kill me!

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Could I have spent the time better? Maybe, but that was a choice I made and don't regret it. A lot of people have said it was the hardest thing they have done in their life but it wasn't for me, it was hard yes, but not the most difficult. About 2 months before IMFL I was ready to quit cuz I was a bit overtrained but that passed and went on to have a decent race. I was really happy to see my dad after the race and got the congratulations from him.

I will do an Ironman again but not this year. I feel that I was far too inexperienced doing one in my second year and could have enjoyed it more had I waited another year or two.

I enjoy living a lifestlye of training and the big races give me another reason to keep training when I start to lose motivation. This year's motivation is to get faster at the Half IM distance while next year I might go the the full IM again before the kid goes to college.

jaretj

I think slick really nailed it here. It is too easy to feel like you are not doing enough, but in reality you could probably show up at the starting line in your current fitness and have an enjoyable race. If you feel you "must break 11 hours" or whatever and find that the committment needed to achieve that is too much for you right now, it doesn't mean you have to give up or feel depressed. Change your goal to "use Ironman as a motivator to eat right and exercise more than occassionally" and then enjoy your race day. I trained fairly lightly, showed up fat and sick, raced "easy" and had a great time at my last IM (and still beat 2/3 of the field, so there are plenty of people doing less).

Well, if it makes you feel any better, I didn't get that incredible lasting high after my first one. I got a bit of a sense of accomplishment, and some personal satisfaction, and that was about it. I thought about the sacrifices we make when training for such events very often, especially since my father died four weeks before the race. I called him a week before he died to say hi and tell him that after my 6 hour bike ride and 2 hours at home depot I wouldn't make it over that day. That was the last time I spoke to him. I am not one for regrets, however, and have no illusion that if I had seen him that last time, some profound wisdom would have been conveyed to me.

Everything you do in life has some opportunity cost associated with it. You sacrifice one thing to get another. Right now my life is so busy that I am totally burned out, even though I am training less than half what I was for ironman last year. I drag myself out of bed exhausted, and have very little enthusiasm for anything. But on the rare occasion when I actually get a reasonable amount of sleep a couple of nights in a row, I feel good and look forward to running, swimming,or seeing friends.

You are probably burned out, but you are experiencing something that sounds normal. You already did an ironman, so why are you doing another one? Keep that in mind while you train and race, and remember that if you didn't think it was worthwhile, you wouldn't be doing it.

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"Whoa Tom pretty huge statemnet - maybe it is correct about you but please don't lump us all together."

You're right Rob. I do see people who participate in the sport as a helathy and constructive "rallying point" for a good family and as a shared experience. You're right about that. I've seen it. Frankly, I envy it.

I was predominantly speaking from my own perspective of my own personal experience with Ironman. But you are right, there are many other types of involvement.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Appreciate the points and perspective Tom - always good to hear alternative views.

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rob reddy

It really is tough to find the time to train when there is so much good tv out there to watch.

Great points Dapper.

The last two years after qualifying for Hawaii earlier in they year I more or less shut down training to maintenance levels ie 7-10hrs per week. No rides over 3 hours or runs over 1.5hrs leading up to the race. Race week I hiked all over the Big Island with the kids to the point my legs were sore (one day we hiked 12 miles at the volcanoes). Ate big dinners and had a few beers every night like a normal vacation, hardly the ideal pre race regimen. I was just happy to be there. Took the race real easy from the start and finished with times of 10:33 and 10:42 the last two years. Hardly earth shattering compared to some guys here but good enough for me and we had a great vacation.

The point is the race was just there to add some unique spice and exitement to the vacation but it wasn't the all consuming focus of our trip or entertainment. Ironman can enhance your life if you let it or just the opposite. You can choose.