How many years have Americans won Kona...then a German wins its a couple of times and all of a sudden the course is too hard and unfair. Some of you guys are completely nuts...

But golf also has the US Open and the Open. Which do rotate courses and are both just as prestigious.

If you don't like it, you could watch something else you prefer. Third trip back to Kona next year and I love the race, its history, traditions and the specific challenges of its location.

You know I've said the same thing and usually get slammed but I totally agree.

The swim is 9/10. I think only beaten by Roth in relation to spectators being able to walk along side the swimmers for a majority of the swim.

The bike is a 1/10. It's 170km in no mans land. You don't see anyone out there other than aide stations. It's farking depressing.

The run is a 5/10. The first half is great. But the back end is boring. Once again. Nothing. It's a total mind fark. it's not pretty. It just sucks.

They should keep a race there so people can do it still but move the World Championships around. And ONLY have people that qualify. Make it a real world championships.

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Regardless of what kind of athlete you are, if you’re headed to Kona there’s really no surprises as to the weather on race day.

In 40 years there has been only 4 years that were slightly easier with less wind and humidity. Aside from that, you pretty much know what you’re getting into. And regardless of how you get there, you need to be prepared.

This is the type of format I was envisioning.

yes, you know what you are likely to get but that doesn't mean you can do as well there as you might elsewhere. if you are naturally more suited to calm hilly riding and colder temperatures then you're pushing it uphill to perform well in kona. as a pro you can potentially train to improve but even then its limited compared to someone who is naturally suited to those conditions and is also training specifically for them. as an amateur you're pretty well screwed.

any top-level athlete should have the chance to be world champion in their sport, not just those suited to particular conditions (unless you think kona is the definition of what ironman racing is and everyone who has raced elsewhere has to have their m-dot tattoos removed ;)

cycling has it right - we saw a hilly EC this year after a variety of flat to mixed courses over recent years

I think when it comes to Long Course culture, Kona is ingrained in that. It's been built that way and moving it removes the mystique. However, I guess WTC could be like the USGA a little bit here in how it changes the US Open every year always trying to beat the best golfers in world. Tweak the course just a little bit each year...you can't lengthen it like in Golf but you can change things up I'm sure.

What I would personally like to see is the race being split into two separate days if they're going to keep making it larger. Just too many people on the course overall.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Not a reply to you in particular StroBro

I can relate to the tradition etc of Kona, and I do believe that maintaining a link with Kona has real merit.

However I see a lot of North American bias in this thread.
Logistics and conditions prevent Kona from being a true WC in my opinion, simply because it disproportionally hinders too many competitors relative to others.

What many don't understand (or forget) is that Kona sucks and is expensive to travel to for a disproportionate amount of the globe. It's a speck in the middle of the Pacific Ocean - hardly a travel hub.
This limits the quality of the AG field from many countries, as lots of great competitors will let their slot roll down for logistical/financial reasons.

Secondly, it's exceedingly difficult for individuals from lots of nations to acclimatise adequately for a good race performance.
Where I live, in September and October, I'm lucky if the temp gets above 13-15degC and we simply don't have that humidity. Ever.
If I showed up in Kona, I'd be a red sweaty mess for weeks unless I wanted to spend time in southern Europe before hand (time off work and £££).
I also believe that this factor somewhat limits the Pro field. Some racers just won't make Kona a priority if they know that they aren't suited to the, quite frankly, extreme conditions.

A fairer solution would be to alternate year on/year off. Kona one year, and roaming venue the next.
You'd see increased interest at regional races where local competitors can more easily get to the host venue that year, and it would mean that we'd get the best out of a wider range of the fastest racers.

Host venue pays out to WTC to hold the event.
Keep the kona race as a regular IM in the off years (guaranteed sell out).
More flexibility re: WC capacity (more hotels in other locations, perhaps more suitable courses).
Maintain stronger worldwide interest/engagement.

Having said all that, I can see why if you're from Texas/SoCal etc you don't want the WC to move.
You have an ridiculous advantage over your worldwide peers at present, so why would you want to give that up?

Swimming always sucks.

  
Do you think WTC will ever move this race? For us Aussie's it costs a fortune to get there and the accommodation is super pricey and there is not enough. Kona has history and is an amazing event to be apart of, but I think it is time to get it on the move. When I was there, the locals hated us being there. I think Kona should be on a permanent rotation for the Worlds But not longer the sole place. If it did rotate I would like it to be set schedule that does not change like the 70.3 worlds go to a region not set course. So a example of a set schedule could be:

Year 1 - Kona
Year 2 - Japan
Year 3 - Frankfurt
Year 4 - Cairns

Repeat Above indefinitely.

The cool thing would also be for someone to win in different locations, like could Daniella Win 4 in a row in 4 locations or Langer? It would definitely bring different athletes into play based on the location and keep it very interesting.

The Kona and golf Masters example is stupid. The Masters is in the contiguous US. As is the US Open and PGA. Not a prohibitively expensive adventure across an ocean.

Even then the pro to amateur ratio is vastly more pro at the Masters or the US Open.

Even if you qualified with $50 shoes and a $500 bike you would have to break the bank to go. That’s silly.

If it were contiguous US, it would open up opportunities.

All these “Move Kona” posts are trying to make fetch happen. Of course it would be more fair for a World Championship race to alternate venues and courses. But a for profit company slapped a World Chapionship label on an event and people expect them to act like an actual governing sport body?

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

It costs a fortune from everywhere...it's an Island in the middle of the Pacific.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

As a participant, its a very challenging course - hard to get to, hard to race. I've done it twice and am ambivalent about going back a third time. The swim is awesome, the bike starts as a full-on draft crit and then gets monotonous, and the run is a death slog in atmospheric conditions that 95% of the athletes have never trained in. Its expensive to get to, expensive to stay there, and I live in California which is a reasonably short flight away.

Yes, tradition is awesome. But once you've done it a few times, I'm not sure it has the same allure for the amateur or for the pro. I don't want to be part of the "Masters". That's the most boring and predictable event on the planet.

If I were WTC, I'd pull an Amazon. Announce that IMWC is looking for an alternative "HQ", to be used in odd years with even years occurring in Kona. Solicit indications of interest from competing venues. Involve the broader IM community in the selection process - pros and amateurs. For e.g., give AWA athletes with higher status and pros a greater vote "weight" or multiplier. Make it fun, social and open. And (sacrilege) play around with the distances and sequencing to flow naturally from the geography. The founders of IM just made up 140.3. Why be wedded to it today? Would they?

Imagine the towns that might bid for the privilege! Antananarivo, Seoul, Reykjavik, Bozeman! Imagine the innovative courses that could result!

That would make the entire experience more fun and more of an adventure. Which is where this whole thing started....

I'm still reminded of the real coaching podcast comments from Paulo Sousa and Joel Filliol; when they talked about how it was kinda comical to have a WC in 1 location and then athlete's whole careers were defined by the ability to race in 1 very distinct environment. And yes understood why this is the case.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Australia is probably the most expensive place to fly to from everywhere... except maybe South Asia.

But every sports organization has it's world championship under similar conditions every year. For example a soccer pitch or football field is identical in dimensions. The weather may be different but the "course" is the same.

Kona is what drives Ironman. All the small details don't matter. Move the WC away from Kona and 99% of people wont care. I can't believe this is even a debate.

Except everyone would bitch and then we'd have the same number of people going to IM's new WC race. Kona is mythical for sure, but IM won't take a hit if they moved it.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

If you can't hit a draw, you can't win the Masters. If you can't perform in the heat, you can't win at Kona.

There is something to be said for a course that everyone knows every inch of and only minor variation year to year.

I think it's fine having 70.3 worlds change venue and Kona stay constant.

People will want to compete at any arbitrary championship. The venue doesn't matter as much as you think.

ITU moves WC venues every year and every year people pay a fortune to race it, no matter the venue.

This. I think we spend so much time on ST that we forget how little people care about the sport worldwide.

Race directors can't get permits for spring distance races, but we think cities will have a bidding war for the WC's???

Leave well enough alone and keep it in Kona.

This is very much a pro North American mindset though. You bet your ass Euro's would love to have it in their back yard as well as Aussies. Moving it around would really not damage the IM financial money train, and in fact likely open it to more people potentially attending. Kona is a pain in the ass travel logistics destination for many many people.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Moving it to Australia certainly would cause a financial hit.

It has a population of what, 25 million people (and many of those are 4-5 hours flight to Cairns) out of 8 billion globally? The rest of the world would be 12hr, 16hr, and/or over 24hr flight there. There is no greater ass travel logistics than Oceania.

WTC could stage it in their office parking lot and within a few hours flight/drive could attract over 40 -50 million people