I was with you until your last sentence. Yes, the roads are bad but your comment is a total exaggeration. I have done that race twice, so I'm speaking from experience. Now, should you expect buttery smooth roads for all the money you are forking out? I would say the market spoke and the answer was yes. I think this is why some of the purists of the sport hate IM so much. Some of the iconic and historic locations of the sport are no longer sustainable under the IM business model and the typical IM customer. And that indeed is very sad.

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http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com

how was the Pacific Crest race in Sunriver? we were on vacation there and left the day they were setting up for the race. looks like an amazing set of events and driving around the area, the roads look to be in unbelievably great shape!!! especially for an area that gets that much snow. hell there was snow on the ground when we were up there. way better than the roads here in CT. my brother and family are in sunriver 2x a year, and I can see why, its awesome. I may try to talk the family into a trip to CDA for the IM as its only 6ish house from where they live in PDX.

Same position here - feeling grateful and a little sad too. Best of luck to you!!

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KJ
Swim and Triathlon Coach
AllTerrainEndurance.com
KJ@allterrainendurance.com

High unlikely that any of those 4 (plus Lake Tahoe) work. There are really only a couple places left in California that check all the boxes for an Ironman race.
Think swim venue, level of course difficulty (including body of water - rivers/lakes oceans), amenities such as plentiful hotels, proximity for travel (drive / fly), plus logistical difficulties in California. It is VERY challenging to put on races, especially long ones in Cali

DL

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Thanks! Same to you.

I'm guessing you didn't get any extra information, but since you are just so involved in the scene I'm wondering if you'd be willing to wildly speculate on what possible sites are left in CA? Since the email announcement did say it will be moving to a new California location... is "new" a key word? As in a location never having hosted an Ironman before? Or is that just lazy wording? Am I reading too much into it?

Semi-related, looking forward to your announcing at the 70.3 and full!

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KJ
Swim and Triathlon Coach
AllTerrainEndurance.com
KJ@allterrainendurance.com

If I knew I could not tell you ;-)

BUT, being somewhat educated in the process, I believe when they say NEW they mean new. If we begin a deduction process, and look at former sites and sites previously looked at we start running out of options.

IMO ... First off, California is difficult.
-Coastal is VERY difficult and we have run out of some options along the coast between Oceanside, to SLO, to SB (these two sites I believe were looked at when Tahoe came to be), to Santa Cruz (which I love for the 70.3 BUT HWY 1 is deal breaker and inland course is too hard).
- Tahoe? No chance (beautiful but too many limitations: dates and windows of opportunity, weather, elevation, course difficulty) ... so, then travel down the central valley in general and what do you find or see based on what is needed?

So when I say not many options, it's crazy that a state so big is so limited, BUT it really is HARD to put on an M-Dot race in way that is expected and with the features that make it logistically possible anywhere ... then try to do it California!

I respect the Regional Director DC and Event Director DR for trying to pull this stuff off.

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Dave, what do you think about the Folsom/Rocklin area? There have been independent races there in the past. I did the old CaliMan HIM there years ago. There were also some great short course races like Folsom Intl. Lake Natoma was a swim site that seemed to work well. That area seems to check a lot of the boxes as far as being easy to travel to, availability of lodging interesting topography to race on, as well as visit/vacation. Lots of great restaurants, microbreweries in the area, etc. I'm surprised that a lot of the old races didn't do better. Especially the old Folsom Intl. course that finished in old town Folsom was very cool.

Pacific Crest is a wonderful series of events, and the venue is amazing. It’s definitely spectator-friendly. That said, due to some obnoxious HOA members, 2020 will be the last year in Sunriver...after 24 years! No word on the 2021 location, but if you can make it out here this June, I highly recommend it!!

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- John
"Have courage, and be kind."

I don't think Folsom or Rocklin per se can afford the what might normally be needed to bring a race of that caliber to their town ??? (or maybe Folsom does?)

That said, Folsom has the swim venue (I think Natoma is the most consistent venue) and Folsom has a fantastic trail network for the run course.

We are seeing more races like Louisville, Chattanooga, Tulsa that are taking part partially in Metro areas (River Swims) with bike rides outside that area. Sacramento falls in that category, has a river, has a river trail(?) to run, and the Old Historic area is pretty cool for a finish?. In some ways SAC reminds me of Tulsa (though I like Tulsa area better) All that said, I do not know the details if the river has good entry / exit point with access to a transition area. Maybe Discovery Park (T1) & American River (swim) fit that need? (I have not been there for years) ... with a T2 somewhere else? Potentially an option for swim / T1 @ Natoma and T2 in Sac?

So, SAC does check a lot of boxes for most things (including hotel rooms, resources, venues etc.) '

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

I really only know NorCal so that's where I started my hunt based off your first reply.

I think Sac is an option and would provide for a single transition area. I believe it is Discovery Park that has a good entry point (there's definitely a sprint tri held there) and maybe head out of town on the bike north? Has any Ironman ever utilized a bike trail for the bike portion? Because those are fairly good routes out of town... They're also no strangers to endurance events, with CIM every year. Plus the airport options, capitol finish, etc.

The other thought I had was Redding, which is much much smaller, but has Whiskeytown National Recreation area to swim and lots of country roads and is in the shadows of Shasta. Redding also puts on a fairly decently sized marathon and they're very proud of their Sundial Bridge. I do think this would be back to a two-transition race though, and it's not nearly as easy to get to.

I could also see Ironman swooping in on Santa Barbara and taking over their successful races. But I won't elaborate on that because I don't want to give them too many ideas...


** Edit: Just for fun, I drew up a quick bike route for Sacramento. 112 miles to make a big single loop with 5k feet of climbing. Due north from downtown, head east over to Auburn, go around Folsom Lake (blink and you'll miss the Western States trail), and head back in to town along the river. None of these roads have been vetted for bike traffic :)

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KJ
Swim and Triathlon Coach
AllTerrainEndurance.com
KJ@allterrainendurance.com

In other words, flat and not inconveniencing local drivers.

Even if the locals were 100% enthusiastic about Tahoe and the race was in July, signups were dropping off each year because of the course difficulty. People get excited about the challenge in year 1 and then... not so much as time goes on.

Whistler eventually got picked apart by the same problems. The venue was great, lodging basically unlimited. But the Pemberton complaints hosed the bike course and made it even harder than it already was.

A few things
-I do not think a single transition is necessary
-Bike Paths / Trails make for typically poor bike course options unless it's a short connection BUT we are seeing more of them in IM races for the run.
-Easy Airport/Travel for sure - they have hosted many events like CIM as you say plus they were regulars at investing money in the Tour of California
-Bike Route ... 5000 feet climbing may be pushing the limits of what they would want. I'd look at routes that might be more like ride out of town, two loops, return (think Louisville, Chattanooga, Santa Rosa, Wisconsin) or even a two loop course.

-Redding? ... to me it does not fit their model and I HIGHLY doubt Redding has the resources to financially to invest in bringing Ironman

-If Santa Barbara could have been done it would have been done by now :-)

We'll know soon

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

You make very good points about Tahoe and Whistler, agree

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Redding can't be done in the summer unless you like racing in 106-110* temps!

Mammoth Lakes.

Has the infrastructure to support thousands of visitors at any given time.

lots of lakes

hundreds of miles of smaller roads so locals wont be inconvienced.

hundreds of miles of trail for the run.

restaurants galore.

already a tourist destination.

JUST MAKE IT HAPPEN DAVE!!!!

Honestly, I think you're underestimating what a PITA a two-transition race is for both competitors and family/spectators. I did 70.3 Coeur D'Alene a couple years ago. This year I decided to do 70.3 Santa Rosa, only because the date of CdA didn't work with our summer vacation plans. Santa Rosa is easily driveable for me from the bay area but, given the choice (and schedule permitting) I'd fly to Couer D'Alene before I'd do Santa Rosa again, simply for a race with one transition area.

And ONLY a 4-5hr drive from LA! No f-ing way does Mammoth happen. They'll be back in Tahoe before Mammoth even makes it as a recommendation.

And restaurants galore....?!?!?!? I love me some Mammoth, but the dinning scene in Mammoth is pure shit

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Tough Times Don't Last, Tough People Do.

It has very few hotels. The nearest airport that can land jets is about 4 hours away. It has very few roads in good condition outside of the main highway. Altitude will be killer.

Don't see it.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

I am sorry, but this is ridiculous. I've done both 70.3 and the full in SR and while having to drive to Sonoma Lake on Saturday is not ideal, it SO beats fucking FLYING with your gear and what not. It is not even close.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Who said anything about flying with my gear? Tribike transport to Coeur D'Alene was totally painless. Bike and gear bag were there waiting for me when I arrived.

Well, I am quite interested in seeing what IM comes up with as a replacement. Selfishly, I'm really hoping for a Northern California location. Sacramento/Folsom is in my backyard -- so I'm all in on that!

Did Santa Rosa full in 2018. My first time at that distance. I really thought it was well executed and supported. Sure, getting T1 setup the day before the race was minorly inconvenient (as was schlepping up to the lake the morning of race), but the swim venue was a total pleasure. Bike course was scenic around wine country. Sure the roads weren't perfect, but they were totally manageable. The run wasn't on an exotic, scenic course, but I definitely appreciated the shade and occasional packed dirt trails. Volunteers and support crew were awesome.

Heading back for the race again in July. My biggest concern is the heat. Really hope swim remains wetsuit legal and we don't all fry on the bike/run segments!

Average High Temp in Santa Rosa in late July is 84 degrees ... morning temps in the 50's and the high temp does not last for long periods of time (evenings cool off quick)

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

[/quote] It has very few hotels. The nearest airport that can land jets is about 4 hours away. It has very few roads in good condition outside of the main highway. Altitude will be killer.

Don't see it.[/quote]
Not to beat a dead horse here, but there is a Mammoth airport (United, Alaska, JetSuiteX, maybe another...?) about 10 mins from town. Still, Mammoth won't even make a list

LA resident here, I'm thinking NorCal too and I would 100% be on board for a Sacramento area race.

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Tough Times Don't Last, Tough People Do.

When I first raced in Santa Rosa (Vineman’91 and many full and 70.3 and Aquabike) I loved the city. Recently the bike thefts (and other car break ins) and the problems with homelessness have made me not want to go back.
The LA Times had a great article on the problem today.
I hope the city takes the time to take care of itself. With the recent fires, they have lots to do rather than worry about Ironman.
Great run and sad to see it go, but it was time.

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Team Zoot So Cal