What if you don’t want it to calibrate rpe? Maybe you have some other method (like an app on your phone) but would like the option of running without a head unit in competition? Maybe you just want it for tracking training stress? Maybe it’s a situation where you wouldn’t be looking at data in real time anyway and don’t need a head unit during the event (crit, cross race).

Just because you wouldn’t ever use that feature doesn’t mean it has no value. I have no use for lap swimming features on a Garmin, but that doesn’t mean that others don’t have a use for it.

What’s the downside of having the ability for the PM itself to gather data, other than being a feature you don’t see a use for? Seems like it would, at a minimum, provide a failsafe in case your head unit won’t pair with the PM or loses connection in T1 somehow (how often have we seen someone report that issue on here?)

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Because that power data gathered doesn't mean much, unless you just wany data for the sake of data. If you want to calculate tss, use one of those heart rate monitors you mentioned that can do the same thing.

In other words, you don’t really have a good reason to not have the feature other than you wouldn’t find it useful.

You never do post race or post workout analysis? Send power files to a coach?

In the TDF power meter thread, people are talking about how lots of riders don’t actually look at their power during the race. Do they all have it wrong?

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If I can’t race with whatever equipment I want, I would be out of triathlon and so would 200k other people. Obsessing over equipment and numbers is the fun part. Us slow people aren’t even racing others anyways.

I’m pretty much a “run whatever ya brung” guy. My biggest gripe is that the costs to “keep up with the joneses” have gotten crazy.

I remember a few years ago, my lbs had a limited edition Colnago on display. Gold plated campy record components, gold leaf decals, pretty sweet. Everyone knew that if you bought that bike, you weren’t actually going to ride it. It was an artpiece. I think it sold for $10k

I looked today, and Cannondales cheapest triathlon bike on their site is listed st $9500. Granted, it’s a very nice ride, but still.

I got into this sport in 1987, as a teenager. There wasnt much tech back then, it was Columbus SL or Reynolds 531 tubing. Maybe those fancy indexed gears, but real cyclists didn’t use those . I didn’t start in a gear driven sport, and while I like a bit of techy stuff as much as the next guy, it wouldn’t bug me in the least if we were all required to ride steel road frames tomorrow. I got the gear acquisition syndrome out of my system ages ago.

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You don't need to look at your power data all the time while riding. But in order to analyze the data, you have to have the cross reference data. Speed, HR, elevation/grade, and GPS reference to make it useful for post ride analysis. Otherwise you can't tell the difference between a rider coasting on the flats vs coasting down a steep hill vs being stopped at a red light. Want to analyze how well you climbed that hill in the middle of your ride? You kind of need to know where in your data file the hill is...no? How did you handle that attack that was launched at the corner of XYZ street? Good luck finding it in your file. Think that your PM is reading low compared to your last ride? Wouldn't it be easy to cross reference a 5 minute hill to see if you climbed up at the same speed but your watts were 30% off? How are you going to do that if all you have is power data? Why would anyone choose to analyze data that way when a 50g head unit could make things infinitely more efficient?

And even if you got around those barriers...how exactly does one start and stop the recording on the PM without a device to talk to it? Create a button? One that is much harder to reach than a head unit on your bars? One that by design could cause durability issues and water ingress into the main internals? I'm sure PM companies are eager to develop such functionality that could cause more warranty returns.

Auto start recording. No buttons. Or a little wireless button that can be stuck somewhere that’s easily accessible. Pair it with a speed / distance sensor or in a wheel based power meter sensor and you get most of that stuff you’re talking about, minus gps and hr. But maybe you weren’t recording HR anyway. Maybe you’re riding on a track. Or a flat crit.

I’ll give you an example. If I were to take my mountain bike out on the local trail, GPS data isn’t going to tell me where the hills are. There aren’t any major climbs, but there’s lots of features that require massive spikes in power. A few feet left or right on the trail and I’m not going over the same feature on the trail. GPS doesn’t really add anything. Looking at data during the ride won’t add anything. But what I would be interested in is post ride analysis, what were my peaks, is my training helping or not, did my adjustments to suspension settings result in more speed around the trail normalized to power output? Maybe I don’t want to carry a head unit and phone because there’s a high chance of crashing and losing / damaging the electronics, but a PT hub is pretty unlikely to get damaged.


You STILL haven’t given an actual reason that the data should not be recorded in the PM. Just reasons that you think it wouldn’t be valuable, to you.

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This mode of thought is why I'd like to see racing with no tech. Having people monitor their numbers so much isn't in the spirit of racing, in my opinion.

>If I can’t race with whatever equipment I want, I would be out of triathlon and so would 200k other people. Obsessing over equipment and numbers is the fun part. Us slow people aren’t even racing others anyways.

The declining participation in tri suggests the status quo isn't bringing in or keeping people either. Maybe a lower barrier to competition isn't a terrible idea.

You're suggesting that you're so slow that you need all that data mid-race? I mean, I get that it can be fun, so train with it. But you shouldn't *need* 8 metrics in real time to race.

One reason power meters don't record data themselves is that they do no have the memory for data storage.

While I am sure there is room to add some RAM chips in there, they would add to the cost. And how much memory would you need if people are not regularly downloading the data?

Of course the main reason is that as someone pointed out, the PM only knows power, and sometimes cadence. If you want to correlate that data with the time of ride, HR, location or elevation you need to pair that with data from a GPS head unit.

What you you do next, add a clock to the PM so that you can correlate the data? What a pain.

I've been to car races with my Dad, where you can buy anyone's engine for a fee. I forget, but it was like $500 or something awhile back. So, if you want to spend thousands tuning the engine, just know you may have to sell it come race time.

There could be a category in tri doing the same thing. What ever bike you rode, anyone can buy it for $500 or $1000 or whatever, at the end of the race. You could call it the classic or purest category.

Yeah, that’s why I was wondering about that originally. Seems like quite a few people just want data for post ride analysis, I remember Boardman ran his Srm head unit under the seat for prologues / TTs. so why not do it in the pm rather than a jerry rigged kludge?

I don’t think the original SRM’s had GPS in them either. The original power tap ones certainly didn’t. Why is data withou GPS suddenly worthless when it was actually useful before?

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i dont really care

but i am alwyas a bit suprised that they are allowed given that outside assistece and coaching are not allowed
it should be either everything is allowed or nothing . if powermeter coaching should allowed
and if no powermeter than no watch.
so at the end i dont care and just leave it as it is


and to follow the rule the powermeter did not help lionel ....

First off, according to WTC, participants increased 2018 over 2017.
Second, in any age group, there are only 5-10 people racing at the top. Everyone else is doing their best to improve themselves or just having fun.
I have all these techs and nice equipment and I want to use them in a race. Why should I be limited? If I have to not bring my wetsuit, not bring my badass bike, my nice triathlon watch that connects to my power meter and shows HR, then I will not race. No amount of training or technique help or coaching will make me contend for a podium spot.
So all you fast people who bitch about equipment, should level the genetic field first and then I will ditch my equipment.

A gold plated Colnago? How long ago is a few years ago?

It would’ve been in the mid ‘90s.

Ferrari red frame, gold decals. Gold plated campy c-record components, but I cant recall if it had diwntube shifters or ergopower. I think it had DT shifters and delta brakes.

Edit, just google searched it. It was this one.

http://cozybeehive.blogspot.com/...ors-edition.html?m=1

So actually early 90’s

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In that case, well not that you don't have a valid point but I don't know if that example supports it very well. $10,000 in today's money is only $5,300 in 1991

And conversely, $10,000 in 1991 is over $18,700 right now

True, but a $5k (in 1990 dollars) bike was virtually unheard of in the ‘90s. Maybe the highest end models of the highest end manufacturers had something around that price. Now, that’s Cannondales lowest priced triathlon bike. The high end one is like 18k, and there’s no gold plated bling anywhere.

They may introduce something at lower price points, but I don’t know how much less they’ll go. The $10k bike is equipped with Ultegra di2. It certainly won’t be dipping into that high 2 low 3k point that passes for “entry level” these days.

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I have seen a study in which cyclists performed time trials in a lab with and without a powermeter. Those who were not used to using (i.e. were not dependent upon) a powermeter performed the same with and without. Those who normally used a powermeter performed better with the powermeter. The authors concluded that powermeter users had lost their innate sense of effort.
Cheers,
Jim

Bottom line up front: Terrible Idea

There is a HUGE difference in riding in a peloton as a pro and riding as an individual, especially as an AG, in a non-drafting race. Despite TDF pros knowing there power numbers, even if they didn't use a powermeter during a race, they have to stay with the peloton, they can draft and its a TEAM sport. TDF pros wheel sucking on a team mate, watching power numbers, waiting for the final climb to attack, getting directions from the team director via race radio, make for a big "yawn". Again none of this applies to triathlons. Triathlons are not a bike race alone. You still have to run. Powermeters help you pace. TDF riders have team mates to help with that. Its comparing apples and oranges.

Original Sale Price or current value? Could I resell my bike to myself to get a lower price?

Maybe a pack it in/pack it out triathlon where you have to carry all your equipment with you the whole distance. You might have to get floaties for your folding bike.

> Triathlons are not a bike race alone. You still have to run. Powermeters help you pace.

This is exactly my point. Unaided racing would be more variable, and hence, more fun in my opinion.

Post-race, while all the bikes are still in T2, if someone asks to buy your bike for $1000, you have to sell it to them.