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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Sbernardi] [ In reply to ]
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What safety concerns?

Brakes that actually work in all conditions?
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [owen.] [ In reply to ]
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Not from Flo. From other Chinese crap wheel co. Chris and John are reputable. I trust that they have done their due diligence.

http://www.TriScottsdale.org
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Pantelones] [ In reply to ]
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While it looks like carbon clinchers, it doesn't necessarily make sense for their business model. Flo's big selling point was that they offered an exceptional value at an exceptional price. Boyd and Williams already bring (what I presume to be) great carbon clinchers to the market at a decent less-than-Zipp price. But Flo has the sub-$1k price point, which is huge, and allowed people to gobble up tons of wheels of whatever size/depth they wanted. Tomorrow they may reveal another great wheelset(s), but if the price creeps up another $300-$400 just to be full carbon they kind of lose their distinctiveness to the other existing players in the market. Even if they bring some super whiz-bang feature for that extra money the attractive price point kind of melts away, and along with it, some of their target market.

In any case, the time is ripe for them to bring a new product to market, they have likely done their homework, and will hopefully come up with something very interesting. My bet, or hope anyways, is that whatever they do allows them to continue to be a unique player in the market rather than making 'just another carbon wheelset'.
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [JesseN] [ In reply to ]
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Could offer two different price points. Carbon Fairing rim and full carbon. Would be nice to expand.

2019 T-Rex Tri Series
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [mknight84] [ In reply to ]
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So they are carbon clinchers... They seem to appear exactly the same as their old carbon fairing counterparts but lighter.

Front
Flo 45 CC $549 Flo 60 CC $549 Flo 90 CC $549

Rear
Flo 45 CC $599 Flo 60 CC $599 Flo 90 CC $599 Flo Disc CC
$949
Last edited by: arkie: Mar 1, 16 0:18
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [arkie] [ In reply to ]
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arkie wrote:
So they are carbon clinchers... They seem to appear exactly the same as their old carbon fairing counterparts but lighter.

Front
Flo 45 CC $549 Flo 60 CC $549 Flo 90 CC $549

Rear
Flo 45 CC $599 Flo 60 CC $599 Flo 90 CC $599 Flo Disc CC
$949

Exactly the same? Did you see the aero page where we talk about a 15 month design process, the equivalent of 4.5 years of CFD interations to develop new rims shapes etc?


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Chris, I didn't. I have yet to take a look at the details. Even if they were the same though, I'm sure they would be as great as the old ones which I love. I'll have a look at the aero details tonight.

Edit: Had a look and stand corrected, they are not the same and they do seem to be an improvement over the previous models. I have a question on your "Time Savings with Flo Wheels" table. The 60, 90, disc aluminum+carbon are being referred to as 2016 whereas the 30 is still 2013. Did anything change for 2016 on the 60, 90, disc Alu+carbon models?
Last edited by: arkie: Mar 1, 16 1:41
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [arkie] [ In reply to ]
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arkie wrote:
Chris, I didn't. I have yet to take a look at the details. Even if they were the same though, I'm sure they would be as great as the old ones which I love. I'll have a look at the aero details tonight.

Edit: Had a look and stand corrected, they are not the same and they do seem to be an improvement over the previous models. I have a question on your "Time Savings with Flo Wheels" table. The 60, 90, disc aluminum+carbon are being referred to as 2016 whereas the 30 is still 2013. Did anything change for 2016 on the 60, 90, disc Alu+carbon models?

Yes, the fairing shapes were completely redesigned, they have angled brake tracks, and upgraded hubs.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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There is no mention of heat dissipation/heat resistance. Would they be suitable for long, technical descents in 100-degree heat?
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [nchristi] [ In reply to ]
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nchristi wrote:
There is no mention of heat dissipation/heat resistance. Would they be suitable for long, technical descents in 100-degree heat?

Yes. We have specially formulated brake pads to go with our new carbon clincher wheels. We require that they be used to keep the warranty valid. Braking ability that rivals our aluminum rimmed wheels, is one of the number one things reviewers have been commenting on.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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I was really impressed when I looked through the site this morning.
Obviously, I can't speak for the validity of the aero claims (don't worry, I trust you!) but it seems that you've really paid attention to what the clued up athlete wants to see in aero marketing and data dissemination.

I especially likes the interactive drag graph where you could tailor which wheels you can see. It was a nice little touch.

New 45mm CC faster than first gen 90mm FLO wheel.
That's got to make them an attractive prospect amongst roadies!
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Do you have a time speed difference table of the new vs old flos? I see the graph but a dolt. I talk in seconds ;)

Also love those cycling jerseys!
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Liaman] [ In reply to ]
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Liaman wrote:
I was really impressed when I looked through the site this morning.
Obviously, I can't speak for the validity of the aero claims (don't worry, I trust you!) but it seems that you've really paid attention to what the clued up athlete wants to see in aero marketing and data dissemination.

Thanks! That was the goal. We had a strong feeling that the old "80% of your time between 10 and 20 degree of yaw" wasn't right, so we wanted to prove that it wasn't, and then create a product that worked specifically for the yaw angles we did find.

I especially likes the interactive drag graph where you could tailor which wheels you can see. It was a nice little touch.

Glad you like it. That took some serious tinkering but I got it to work. It's a feature I always wanted as an athlete so it only made sense to put it on our new site.

New 45mm CC faster than first gen 90mm FLO wheel.
That's got to make them an attractive prospect amongst roadies!

That is also the goal ;)


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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coates_hbk wrote:
Do you have a time speed difference table of the new vs old flos? I see the graph but a dolt. I talk in seconds ;)

Also love those cycling jerseys!

I don't, but Ryan Cooper from Best Bike Split ran 50 simulations today with all of our new wheels and old wheels. We hope to have all of that data published showing time savings on a handful of IM courses in the next day or so. That will be a better overall representation of the savings.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on what appears to be a very nice, new product line fellows!

Just finished up reading the aerogeeks first look: http://aerogeeks.com/...eel-line-first-look/

-------------------
Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Quick question around your yaw findings when out on course:

What kind of typical cruising speeds were you cycling at to get these results? 16, 18, 20mph?
Obviously wind conditions on the day etc will have their own effects, I'm just trying to work out what sort of skew I should apply for my own riding. Faster = less yaw etc
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Timtek] [ In reply to ]
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Timtek wrote:
Congrats on what appears to be a very nice, new product line fellows!

Just finished up reading the aerogeeks first look: http://aerogeeks.com/...eel-line-first-look/

Thank you! TriRig has one up too!


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Liaman] [ In reply to ]
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Liaman wrote:
Quick question around your yaw findings when out on course:

What kind of typical cruising speeds were you cycling at to get these results? 16, 18, 20mph?
Obviously wind conditions on the day etc will have their own effects, I'm just trying to work out what sort of skew I should apply for my own riding. Faster = less yaw etc

We rode at a variety of speeds during our studies. Of course higher speeds produce lower yaw angles, but there wasn't a significant enough difference to worry about. What the overwhelming result was, no matter where we rode, is that yaw angles are typically much lower than we believed in the past. Our data shows that 50% of your time is spent between 0 and 5 degrees, and by the time you get to 10 degrees of yaw, you have accounted for 80%. You spend only 20% of your time between 10 and 20 degrees of yaw, and as the angles get higher, the percentage of time gets lower.

Long story short, what I've said above really holds true for the average speeds almost any athlete is maintaining.

Make sense?


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, that makes sense.

Thanks Chris
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Congrats on the new products, first they seem awesome, second they are very well introduced with all the information available at the same time !

I do have a couple of questions :
1- I saw you molded the shape of the GP4000S II 700x23 on the FLO30 to get it right and then develop your wheels around it. Very smart. My question about that process is : did you take into account the shape the tire might take from the 17mm internal width of the 45mm carbon clincher which is your minimum internal width if I read correctly to the 19.4mm internal width of the FLO30 and the new carbon/alloy model ? Or was the difference small enough between 17 and 19.4mm that it did not really matter (big difference going from 15 to 17mm but then differences gets smaller when going bigger).
2- Since lower yaw angles were getting higher in the priority list, I'm sure Attack 700x22 or the narrow Supersonic 700x23 were tested in your 20 tires pre-test, how did they compare at lower yaw angles to the GP4000S II 700x23 you ended up choosing ? Since the 45 is narrower at brake track, is it possible that those narrower tires make more sense on the 45mm model but you standardized with one tire (actually two 700x23mm models) just to keep the information easily readable ?
3- Per you own specs and graphs the carbon clincher disc is 40gr lighter but also slightly less aero than the carbon/alloy disc, would you recommend the carbon/alloy disc most of the time (it also has the wider internal width which makes the 40gr extra weight even easier to accept) and only recommend the carbon clincher version to the custommer wanting to save the very last gram ? I would pick carbon clincher all the time for all rims just because I'm not a fan of the big holes in carbon/alloy (don't want to start the debate, it's just a personnal preference) but since the discs are the same kind of construction in both carbon clincher and carbon/alloy I honnestly wonder which one I would pick.

Looking forward to reading your answer, and congrats again... I was not sure I needed new wheels but I think I do ;-) !!!
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [pyf] [ In reply to ]
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this is an interesting discussion since it would seem that the SS 23mm was a better tire for the old FLO 90 than the GP4000s 23mm.

pyf wrote:
Congrats on the new products, first they seem awesome, second they are very well introduced with all the information available at the same time !

I do have a couple of questions :
1- I saw you molded the shape of the GP4000S II 700x23 on the FLO30 to get it right and then develop your wheels around it. Very smart. My question about that process is : did you take into account the shape the tire might take from the 17mm internal width of the 45mm carbon clincher which is your minimum internal width if I read correctly to the 19.4mm internal width of the FLO30 and the new carbon/alloy model ? Or was the difference small enough between 17 and 19.4mm that it did not really matter (big difference going from 15 to 17mm but then differences gets smaller when going bigger).
2- Since lower yaw angles were getting higher in the priority list, I'm sure Attack 700x22 or the narrow Supersonic 700x23 were tested in your 20 tires pre-test, how did they compare at lower yaw angles to the GP4000S II 700x23 you ended up choosing ? Since the 45 is narrower at brake track, is it possible that those narrower tires make more sense on the 45mm model but you standardized with one tire (actually two 700x23mm models) just to keep the information easily readable ?
3- Per you own specs and graphs the carbon clincher disc is 40gr lighter but also slightly less aero than the carbon/alloy disc, would you recommend the carbon/alloy disc most of the time (it also has the wider internal width which makes the 40gr extra weight even easier to accept) and only recommend the carbon clincher version to the custommer wanting to save the very last gram ? I would pick carbon clincher all the time for all rims just because I'm not a fan of the big holes in carbon/alloy (don't want to start the debate, it's just a personnal preference) but since the discs are the same kind of construction in both carbon clincher and carbon/alloy I honnestly wonder which one I would pick.

Looking forward to reading your answer, and congrats again... I was not sure I needed new wheels but I think I do ;-) !!!

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Flo Cycling Big Announcement Tomorrow! [mknight84] [ In reply to ]
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mknight84 wrote:
I could be wrong but it looks like the nipples are outside of the carbon which is different than that they had before being under the fairing.

It probably just looks like it cant tell for sure.

I think I can distinguish the spoke nipples in the photo, so I agree with structural carbon. This would address their weight issue, but I am not sure I would trust a full carbon brake track in a budget wheel.

Someone like Zipp has the engineering resources and QC to do a decent job and there is enough evidence of a serious problem with these things to override my inherent cheapness.
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Re: Flo Cycling Launches Carbon Clinchers! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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maybe they manage to improve their online ordering system before adding new fancy stuff to their "store"
you can have the best stuff at this world but if you can't sell it properly...
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Re: Flo Cycling Launches Carbon Clinchers! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Here is the GP4000s II graph from the wind tunnel. I'm not going to bother posting the Ultremo graph (strange tire choice). I wonder why they didn't choose a narrower tire given their yaw findings? I'd also like to hear something from Flo about the carbon brake track and the durability of the carbon rims in general.
Edit: nevermind on the brake comments. Just saw Chris' reply further up.

Last edited by: GreenPlease: Mar 1, 16 7:14
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Re: Flo Cycling Launches Carbon Clinchers! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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The real brilliance in this marketing is that just as they started to get stock in their old wheels, they develop something new that everyone will want but won't be able to get because of the selling model-it will keep these wheels relevant for years to come as people continue to line up every few months to buy them. Apple-like execution!!
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Mar 1, 16 6:38
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