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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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Apple are a joke, like with everything they do they treat their customers like chumps. How many years has it taken them to bring out a watch that can last more than a day.. And people act like it's some amazing breakthrough.

Garmin is perfect, battery lasts forever, bomb proof, all the metrics you could hope for. The only thing they need to do is add the ability to make/receive calls and then it's job done.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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What do I know but DC rainmaker is calling it too on his initial AW review so I will default to him. He says Apple is for sure coming for a good chunk of Garmin users.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [lastlap] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah. Apple, the most successful company on Earth, is a joke.

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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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mongooseman wrote:
I do have it - yeah, it’s very stable. Athlytics also provides all the recovery metrics you’d ever need. I hear you on the Garmin challengers, but this is a little bit different. When Apple comes into your space, you’re going to have to either dramatically up your game in terms of reliability, quality of user experience and presentation and everything else, or you’re going to get steamrolled year by year. The Ultra as it stands right now is v1. By v3 I’m willing to bet this market is going to look very, very different.

It's taken Apple 8+ years to get to this point...except every year of the apple watch I suspect the apple eaters were all over that and have been signaling Garmin downfall. Call me when Apple builds an avionics suite!

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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If Apple builds an Avionics Suite it will only work in 30% of the planes.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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mongooseman wrote:
Yeah. Apple, the most successful company on Earth, is a joke.

The way they treat their sheep, ah I mean customers is a joke. They would have had the ability for a longer battery life years ago, but why release it when they know the fan boy chumps will buy a new watch every year with a tiny improvement in battery life..
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that it will take several versions before the Ultra is a threat. But I think it is only a threat to fringe sport watch users. The AW will probably be a good choice for people who can only afford one device and are not committed to the sport. People who are committed to the sport or can afford both will likely continue to have a true multisport watch.

Apple’s biggest liability in this space is the touch screen. My little vignette… I went on a run today with multiple devices to compare running power. One was my AWS8. I planned a route up and down a very steep hill to see how the three running PMs handle elevation compared to one another. I tried to capture a split at the top of the hill, but somehow the AW ended the whole workout. So, I lost my critical Apple power data. I have no idea how I did that except touchscreen foibles. I maybe make one or two similar user errors in a dedicated multisport watch per year - max.

I think the only way they make a serious play in the Coros/Suunto/Wahoo/Garmin/Polar market is if they can fully disable the touchscreen during activities. And, they need to add full sensor support to the native workout app. And they need to make the end-to-end data experience easier; right now, getting workout data into Training Peaks or Strava is clumsy. And they will need to get the device lighter; it is about 50% heavier than most multisport watches.

I think the Apple Watch to Garmin will be like Mac to PC. It will have a small but loyal market share in that space, but not a major position holder.

As someone noted, the AW Ultra probably should be compared to the Garmin epix. That one probably is a true competitive threat, because the epix is probably bought by people where multisport is secondary.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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mongooseman wrote:
I do have it - yeah, it’s very stable. Athlytics also provides all the recovery metrics you’d ever need. I hear you on the Garmin challengers, but this is a little bit different. When Apple comes into your space, you’re going to have to either dramatically up your game in terms of reliability, quality of user experience and presentation and everything else, or you’re going to get steamrolled year by year. The Ultra as it stands right now is v1. By v3 I’m willing to bet this market is going to look very, very different.

yes, and in my experience reliabilty and quality of user experience are where garmin fall short. i'm on my second 955 now, after the first was replaced due to multiple issues which seem to be well known in the community but garmin support were seemingly unaware of, let alone able to help with other than the eventual "oh well, lets just try replacing it" approach. so after a month of them doing nothing, i then had to pay to ship it back to them and wait 12 days to get a replacement, which was then starting from scratch, reconfiguring everything and now waiting 3 weeks for it to learn my physiological metrics, all of which it should have picked up from the previous one. and guess what, i immediately found that at least one of the significant bugs is present in the new watch too.

i'm not an apple fan at all but i can't imagine they would accept that this sort of experience is typical with garmin devices. i have had a lot of garmin devices and every one of them has had issues that garmin have ben unable to resolve, except sometimes they are willing to replace which sometimes solves the issue

i have to say, the feature set of the 955 is top notch and i don't think anyone else is close, yet. just as usual garmin's lack of reliabilty lets them down which leaves them in danger as and when someone else gets anywhere close on features.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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The Ultra doesn’t rely on the touchscreen as much due to the action button or whatever they’re calling it.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Agree. But they need to have an option to fully turn touchscreen off. The Garmin 955 touchscreen is awesome, and I love what it could do during an activity. But there is no universe where I would enable it.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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jaretj wrote:
If Apple builds an Avionics Suite it will only work in 30% of the planes.

And you'd have to build seperate special airports for them to be able to land and take off at.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
mongooseman wrote:
I do have it - yeah, it’s very stable. Athlytics also provides all the recovery metrics you’d ever need. I hear you on the Garmin challengers, but this is a little bit different. When Apple comes into your space, you’re going to have to either dramatically up your game in terms of reliability, quality of user experience and presentation and everything else, or you’re going to get steamrolled year by year. The Ultra as it stands right now is v1. By v3 I’m willing to bet this market is going to look very, very different.


It's taken Apple 8+ years to get to this point...except every year of the apple watch I suspect the apple eaters were all over that and have been signaling Garmin downfall. Call me when Apple builds an avionics suite!


You do realize that product designs change over time?

Apples product engineers and marketing team probably didn’t envision building a Garmin competitor at the the time the Apple Watch was first created.

Focus groups, listening to your customers, and creating a future forward looking vision is how the Ultra came to be.

Making fun of them for taking 8 years to release a Garmin competitor is ridiculous. The designs for the Ultra probably started maybe 2 years ago?

Apple doesn’t have to design avionics to beat Garmin in a single product category. Garmin should be worried about losing market share.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Oct 1, 22 16:21
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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I actually used the touchscreen for mapping on my Fenix 7X this morning. Super handy.

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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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It is sweet. I also like that it makes it easy to switch screens. If only it couldn’t also incidentally screw up an activity too. I wish Garmin only limited it to navigation and left off the destructive stuff.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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One of the main reasons I’m so stoked that my Ultra will arrive tomorrow or Tuesday is that until the 9.63 firmware update appeared for my Fenix 7X Sapphire Solar, until recently the top of the line Garmin watch, it was losing 50% of the battery on a short trail run. This stuff *does not happen* with Apple kit.

If Garmin wants to retain the sports watch high ground, they’ve got a veritable mountain of QC issues to sort out, as well as simple stuff like making more comfortable straps available quickly at launch, and hugely slimming down their confusing product lineup. Apple’s success now is partly down to Jobs savagely cutting projects and the product portfolio when he returned from NeXT to focus on quality in a few segments. Garmin need to do the same, IMO, and lose the “ACME” mindset.

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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. Garmin’s product line for watches is enormous. All of their watches have 90% of the same features with each watch having something special for a specific sport.

It’s too much. Wahoo and Apple are doing it right.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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mongooseman wrote:
This stuff *does not happen* with Apple kit.
You must be new to Apple. Antenna failures, bulging batteries, rough approximation of a Bluetooth standard, rapid battery discharge (happening now, FYI), ask a field nurse about taking HR with an AW, Final Cut debacle, etc. Apple is not magic.

I have a crapton of Apple in my household. I love them for what they are. But they have a lane where they’re good, and lots of space where they’re not.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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I’ve used Macs since 1985 and am a former Apple employee (2007-10). I’m a professional print designer and use Apple gear all day long, every day.

Your point on a field nurse - Apple Watch is not, and has never been intended as, a medical device - never mind a diagnostic tool for use on someone other than the user. That’s just a meaningless complaint.

As for the other points you mention, I haven’t personally ever had a swollen battery although the iPhone 4 antenna placement issue was an annoying one. None of the things you mention have anything to do with my comments about some of the issues I’ve faced with Garmin.

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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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mongooseman wrote:
I haven’t personally ever had a swollen battery although the iPhone 4 antenna placement issue was an annoying one. None of the things you mention have anything to do with my comments about some of the issues I’ve faced with Garmin.
You kinda moved the goalposts a bit by pivoting from feature comparisons to QC complaints. The AW and iPhone products have had many hardware and major software issues. They are not special. Apple’s Bluetooth history with their BMW partner is comical.

I mentioned the nurse thing because it illustrates Apple’s challenge to truly understand an issue. Nurses need a watch that will show seconds long enough to get a patients pulse. Nurses complained on Apple forums and to apple back in like 2015. Apple added the setting to keep the screen on for 75 seconds on double-tap. Problem is, the screen will shut off if you roll your wrist. So close, but a miss. The most popular nurse’s watch is a Spigen - not a medical device; just a watch.
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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This is a lot of complaining about stuff that has no bearing toward tracking a run.

Garmin is not special.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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I didn’t put up any “goalposts” to move - but as always whenever Apple does something new, the conversation devolves into tribalism very quickly. Again, I really don’t understand why you’re even bringing up medical nursing care…it’s not relevant to the product.

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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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mongooseman wrote:
I didn’t put up any “goalposts” to move - but as always whenever Apple does something new, the conversation devolves into tribalism very quickly. Again, I really don’t understand why you’re even bringing up medical nursing care…it’s not relevant to the product.


It’s because they know their Garmins are not so special now. Their arguments mirror political rants.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Oct 1, 22 20:07
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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mongooseman wrote:
I didn’t put up any “goalposts” to move - but as always whenever Apple does something new, the conversation devolves into tribalism very quickly. Again, I really don’t understand why you’re even bringing up medical nursing care…it’s not relevant to the product.

Funny how you brings up tribalism. Apple Post Jobs is very lack lustre-that notch is laughable! Samsung has been able to get away with a full edge to edge screen with a tiny dot for a camera for years, apple on the other still have a crazy big ugly black hole, oh but let's give it a fancy sounding name like 'dynamic island' and watch the chumps lap it up lol

Apple used to be cutting edge, that time has long passed...

What is 'new' about a watch that still only lasts between 18-36 hours... Lol yeah groundbreaking..
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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [lastlap] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like you just proved my point quite nicely. I’ve had some really nice Samsung stuff. Shame about that Note 7…

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Re: Apple (watch) is coming for Garmin [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Yup. It’s weak.

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