Jordan,

can you elaborate a little more on this " No water. I cramp in my stomach almost immediately if I drink water. When I drink water during training, I always take salt or gel first."

I have been noticing a bit of the same issue more so since its become hot out. Any suggestions? I used 1st End. stuff as well. but cant use gatorade

Not sure what I can elaborate on. Take a gel or salt before you drink straight water. But if there is a different focus I can help with, lemme know. Just not sure what kind of elaboration I can give beyond that.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Just looking at the caffeine intake here. Equivalent to approx one caffeinated power bar gel per hour? Anyone have issues with using caffeine from the start of the bike? Is this a common approach? I tend to wait until about 70 miles in before I take the first one.

I take caffeine before the start of the swim - prerace - and that seems to last me all day (or at least until I get to the run and get coke).

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

sounds like he is trying to figure out the other caffeine intake like the Clif stuff as well as the roctanes..I think.

I love when it is recognized that this excess in training is counter-productive to good health and also when the athlete recognizes that they are doing it purely for the joy in performance. In my opinion, this shows real self awareness. I think the healthiest people I have come across are the ones that are 70 years old, never smoked, eat a balanced diet, have consistent sleep patterns, healthy relationships and do a daily brisk walk (ideally some weight training thrown into the fitness mix also). They never seem to be fitness fanatics. In fact, I was chatting to a friend today about this and we were talking about how fanatical runners (marathoners) and intense cyclists never seem to age well (face seems to show the stress - eyes and skin).

In regards to elite marathoners, I believe the article stated something to the effect that when racing, they shown the same physical symptoms as a person undergoing a heart attack.

Makes me wonder a lot on what the ideal stress point is for health.

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Adrian in Vancouver

Ah, I've never really sat down and calculated "I need Xmg of caffeine." I try not to get too much at once, but I figure that the sum total of caffeine that I'll take during the day is not going to be a ton since the only really big dose is the PreRace. So I don't have a good guideline, mostly because in my experience - unlike with salt/calories/fluids - it's not like there is a magic number for caffeine.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

totally, very interesting to see an accurate and detailed account of intake. i will be bookmarking this thread.

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TEAM GREEN
SWIM - CYCLE - RUN - VEGAN

Same study. I *think* it was CPK levels. To quote Medline, "When the total CPK level is very high, it usually means there has been injury or stress to the heart, the brain, or muscle tissue. I think CPK levels after a marathon are reasonably similar to after a heart attack. I believe that was the findings of the study.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Jordan - What do you use to carry your salt tabs on the run?

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"In life we don't regret the things we do, but for lack of courage the things we don't" - Anonymous

My dad did some VC work for the guy who makes the containers that M&M minis come in -

So i have a few of those. The M&M version works fine, of course. Fuel Belt also sells the vials in two packs for about $5. They are great because they are totally watertight. I split my salt tabs into two containers, so if I drop one, I'm not totally SOL. That, and it's easier to manage getting them out when there aren't so many in there.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Just read the 'cramp when drink water' piece above? I might get the same but have just not twigged that straight water may be the reason. Why would the cramping happen when just water is consumed?

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

It's actually not that uncommon. I don't have a researched scientific paper for you, but keep in mind that your bodily fluids are quite salty (among other things). Water - straight water - will dilute your bodily fluids. The extreme case of this is hyponatremia, which can be fatal. But absorbing straight water, in my experience and talking to others, as opposed to fluid with a similar electrolyte concentration as your bodily fluids, seems to cause cramping. Drink water on long run = cramps. Water + one salt pill (or two, depending on run length and heat) = no cramps. Your body - or, I should say, my body - just seems to process fluid with a similar electrolyte balance more easily.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Cool, thanks for that. That may be the cause of my cramping. I always just thought that water would be safe and that something else may be the problem. I will start dropping an Endurolyte with it. If I was taking regular endurolytes anyway would I need to take with the water as well? Or are they pushed through the system fairly quickly meaning the water hits my stomach without them?

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

Endurolytes are useless, IMO. Look at the electrolyte breakdown. It makes no sense. Minimal sodium. A ton of calcium. It's one of the most ill conceived products I know of. I really have no idea what their formulation is based on. SaltStick is based off typical values for human sweat, and the differences are astonishing. Throw away your endurolytes. Buy some saltstick capsules.

Endurolytes Capsules
Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1 capsule
Amount Per Serving %DV
Sodium (as Sodium Chloride) 40mg 2%
Chloride (as Sodium Chloride) 60mg 2%
Calcium (as Chelate) 50mg 5%
Magnesium (as Chelate) 25mg 6%
Potassium (as Chelate) 25mg 1%
Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine HCL) 6.6mg 330%
Manganese (as Chelate) 1.6mg 80%
L-Tyrosine 50mg †

SaltStick Capsules
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 capsule
Supplement Facts
Serving size 1 capsule Amount Per Serving %DV*
Sodium (as 550 mg sodium chloride) 215mg 9%
Potassium (as potassium citrate and potassium chloride) 63mg 2%
Calcium (as calcium citrate and calcium gluconate) 22mg 2%
Magnesium (as magnesium citrate and magnesium gluconate) 11mg 2%
Vitamin D3 100 IU 25%

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Oy that's a stretch. Thousands of years of evolution got us to just tolerate "gatorade" when exercising? I think not.

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The Triathlon Squad

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I do a hard run. I drink water. I get cramps in my stomach. I do similar run. I drink water and take a salt pill. I do not get cramps. I don't really care what you think. It's like Noakes. Just because I *shouldn't* need to take salt doesn't change the fact that taking salt solves the problem I do have even though I shouldn't have it.

Thousands of years of evolution shouldn't require us to wear shoes, either. Is not wearing shoes going to be part of your mandate for your new training squad? Of all people, I'd expect you'd have more acceptance for doing something because it works - consistently.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

You sound a little cranky ;)

I wasn't objecting to your individual difference, but to your generalization. To think that most people will have cramps when drinking pure water is the stretch.

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The Triathlon Squad

Like us on Facebook!!!

I had not yet eaten my buffalo rib-eye steak with garlic/chipotle/onion/cowboy spice marinade. And replying to you was keeping me from doing so. I am better now. #meatstrong...

I didn't mean to generalize. My point was simply that I've heard from a fair number of other people that they cramp when they drink straight water as well, and I suggest trying to mix in some electrolytes. In many cases, that seems to help. People rarely think that water is the problem, and yet I've spoken to enough folks where it was a problem that I mentioned it. It's a very biased sample, though, because if you don't have a problem you'd never bring it up.

In other words, I don't think most people will cramp drinking water. But if you do cramp when you drink water, it might be worth trying to supplement with electrolytes to see if that helps.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Jordan,

I am curious if you had a pic of your bike setup with nutrition and flat kit, just to see what it looks like. if not its no worries, I am just having trouble visualizing your setup for the start of your bike.

Thanks

I'm pretty sure this is from AZ '09, but Jordan can confirm:



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Brian Shea
http://www.PersonalBestNutrition.com
Open-Water/Masters Swimming at the Jersey Shore:
Monmouth County NJ Ocean Swim/Masters Workouts

Thanks for the pic, I am always curious as most pros never seem to have the profile design aero bottle or a setup similar. Also it looks like a metal breaking surface so I assuming clinchers? One last question, Brian do the athletes you work with have a timer going off letting them know when to intake nutrition?

I'm horrified by the amount of salt. 12,000 mg of sodium is 30g of salt. That's an LD50 dose for a 10kg child (well, actually it's an LD50 dose for a 10kg rat but you know what I mean...). There's no way anyone could need that much NaCl in a day, as far as I know.

Rob

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Vanity Blog http://triathlonfoolishness.blogspot.com/

As far as you know is wrong then. I'm not even close to the max. The highest sodium losses seen at Gatorade Sports Science is 4,000mg/hour. So, over an equivalent period of time, more than double what I'd lose. And it's not like that person was several standard deviations out of the norm. I know several folks that require 500-1000mg of sodium more than I do.

I'm not sure what the single LD50 dose for a 10kg rat has to do with a measured dose distributed over 8-1/2 hours for a 70kg individual.

It's not like I ever advocated - or even could handle - taking that all at once.

Here's another way to look at your rationale. Imagine drinking two gallons of water over 8 hours. That's 32oz./hour roughly. Or an 8oz glass every 15min. Does that seem unreasonable? No. It's a lot of water, but it's not dangerous. Now drink two gallons of water at once. Death - or at least high risk of death - from hyponatremia would result. So by your logic, there's no way anyone could need that much water. And yet, I can guarantee you that is a very reasonable amount of water to take in during an Ironman. Though, you definitely want to take electrolytes as well with it.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

It is '09. Those are tubulars. LOTS of pros have the profile aero bottle. Crowie is the most notable I can think of. I just think it's too heavy, splashes all over the place, and is not particularly aero on a frame with a well designed front end.

I don't use a timer. But a lot of folks do. I just go in multiples of 15min off my clock. 15/30/45/60/etc.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp