I train and race (yes even IM) in my Mizuno Wave Phantoms...love em.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

wave phanom 4's or 3's?

You might want to look at some Asics Speedstars. They are listed as a lightweight trainer, but are actually lighter then some flats. I normally run about a 20 min 5K and love mine. I wear mine for all races up to marathons.

I've also heard good things about the Fastwitch

I've tried the fastwitch, kinda mushy for my taste. I run exclusively Mizuno (maverick for racing marathon & under, riders for training) because of the smooth turnover & responsiveness. If you can get away with a phantom or spacer, go for it.

they've got a new shoe to replace the maverick in January, looks pretty sweet.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I'm using some Nike Waffle Racer 3's, but the tread is already pushing up on my feet. Depends on how much cush you want. There are some good Puma retro's out there that would be good for short course racing. The Nike Mayfly? Not really a durable shoe...

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
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If you can find 'em, the Nike Air Zoom Miler training shoe (not the spike) is pretty sweet. I use it as a racing flat, and for my track workouts. Last time I went to the shoe store, I didn't see them on the wall anymore though. I bet Eastbay, etc. still have some.

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I race duathlons and like it.

Does a 21min 5k runner really need racing flats?

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Ditto what Brian said.

If you're running 5K in 21+, racing flats are a waste of money.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

As long as you are efficient enough or not injury prone I'd wear racing flats regardless of how fast you run. I would recommend the Saucony flats. I have some older Saucony flats and have been looking at the new style for next season. They will make you feel faster and then your 21 minute 5k might just be a thing of the past :)

Why? The time saved due to lower weight would be the same or slightly more per mile. Probably on the order of a few seconds. Why is this fine for a 16 min 5k but not a 21 min? In a tri he may be a top swimmer/biker and holding off the faster runners or trying for a PB or trying to beat a buddy. Either way free speed is free speed.

Styrrell

First off, I work in a shoe store so I get to try lots of flats on. If you're looking for a pure racing flat, versus a lightweight trainer and will only be using it for 5-10K races, maybe a half marathon if you're pretty light weight, here are my suggestions.

Saucony Fasttwitch Endurance, really good cushioning for a flat, you can almost train in this damn thing if you are an efficient runner. I know a guy on this forum who I got hooked on these and he did almost all his Kona mileage on them. Well did it on quite a few pairs but he loved them. Moderate stability, very nice upper which is pretty gentle on feet and only seems to cause blisters occasionally near the pinky toe. A substantial tongue that won't jam down in the shoe or fold over while smoking through your T2 (important but often overlooked points). Removable insole if you need orthotics And finally a grippy blown rubber forefoot which also serves to quiet toe off and give a little more cushioning.

I'd skip the Speed if I were you, well it has it's uses, it's definetely a little more responsive especially in the forfoot due to the carbon rubber outsole and a plastic finger which extends from the midfoot to the ball of the shoe. Weight wise they are nearly identical to the endurance. Problem is they can be pretty slippery if it ever gets wet where the blown rubber on the Endurance gives great traction on everything. So if you don't like a really soft shoe and only race where it's dry, it's a good bet.

Asics magics, sweet meshy shoe, super light, not the softest upper, probably a 10K and under shoe, pretty minimal

Brooks T4, really minimal shoe, feels like a pair of soft track spikes with that negative heel feeling. Not for everyone and I can imagine possible calf injuries if you don't take your time getting used to these.

Nike Katana racers look pretty nice, basically the evolution of the Zoom Streak racer. Bouncy cushioning, a bit of stability. Haven't tried them but the Streak was always a bit too wide for my foot although I loved the zoom air cushioning.

Okay, enough, get to a shop and try them out. If you're looking for a speedwork/long distance racer then check out the Mizuno Maverick/Precision, Asics Speedstar/DS trainer, Nike Zoom Elite/Skylon, etc

Nike Zoom XC's

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Go Faster

I have always trained and raced on Mizuno Aero (something between Rider and Phantom). But then I bought a pair of Saucony Fastwitch Endurance just to try it out. After i have broken it in, it is so damn comfortable and has great cushioning, just like Tai said.

anydody run in the mizuno revolver 2's? Is the tongue large enough to fold down and over? And by the way the 21 minute 5k was a year ago, and I've most definitley improved since then. I just havn't had the time to go out and run 3.1 all out.

im racing in nike streak racers for next season.

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"The aspect of sport that you learn is that you have your good times and your bad times, but you share it with great people." - George Gregan

FWIW, I don't race in them, but wear them to the track. I find the Sacuonys to be a great shoe...

Nike Zoom Streak (the white & red ones). They are great...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Hey Tai,

this is a bit off subect, but wasn't nike coming out with a new shoe that has a 3 degree varus wedge and is fairly light? do you know the status on that?
Thanks,

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

I truely hope, for your sake, that you are not taking any of these recommendations seriously. Without having seen a video of you running, pictures of the worn soles of your current shoes, an extensive injury history, I can't possibly imagine anyone, no matter how much shoe experience they have, would have anything useful to say about which shoes YOU should be in.

Even if someone says something like "those shoes are crap and only last 50 miles", you can't even believe that until you see a video of that person running. Maybe the person is a pigeon toed, foot dragging, shit kicking punk who could wear the sole off a hiking boot while walking across 50 miles of furry little bunnies....how do you know?

Go to your nearest running shoe store, try on as many shoes as you can. Go to another store, try on a bunch more....and buy what you like.

Or he can buy the most minimal shoes and build up his "real" foot strength. As opposed to going to a running store and buying too much shoe with useless plates and elevated heels.

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Go Faster

<< Or he can buy the most minimal shoes and build up his "real" foot strength. As opposed to going to a running store and buying too much shoe with useless plates and elevated heels.>>

Certainly a valid suggestion, but one I wouldn't make without knowing something about him. From what I've read about the recent trend toward minimalist shoes, there is a small minority that actually NEED all the crap put in running shoes today. Who knows...he might be one of them.

yes, Jon I see your point. No one on this forum knows how I run. The main reason I started this thread in the first place was to know which shoe would be best for triathlons. E.X.- large tongue, flexible ect...

Didn't mean to come off as a jerk. Best of luck in your shoe search. May you run blister free in '06....

Nah, it was my bad. I should have stated the intentions of my post clearer.