read the race liability waiver carefully, and then hope your friend has a better lawyer

I haven't read the waiver, which is definitely the place to start, but I'd make pretty heavy odds that neither one of them is liable for the other's problem. And I will assure them both that even consulting a lawyer will cost more than the disc - that really would be a dumbass move, economically speaking.

lol, consulting a lawyer will def be more expensive (unless one of them is a lawyer). I'd say look into how old is the disc, if fairly old perhaps overuse, if new then the warranty might cover it.

The RD would probably tell Mike to take up the matter with John unless he plans on suing the race organizer for something related to unsafe conditions or whatnot.

I think this comes down to Mike showing definitive causation. Can Mike sue? Sure, anyone can sue over anything. Whether it has merit is for a jury or a judge to determine.

Bob

well liability will rest in a court of law, not between the two people and the rd.

I would say that John ran into Mike. Despite your claim that Mike didn't move at the normal speed (whatever that means), I don't see how Mike didn't anything negligent. Is it possible the Mike was moving at the normal speed and John was moving 'faster than normal speed?'

As to how to resolve it...that is up to Mike. The RD won't have any say. It will require a lawyer and court. And as mentioned, the thought of that is likely to cost more than a new disc. I say chalk it up to cost of doing the sport.

You're approaching a stop light and the light turns green. The car in front of you doesn't move quick enough, so you run into the back of it. Who is at fault?

Assuming that the wheel actually got cracked during the crash, it's time for John to pay up.

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speedySTATES

Was he carrying a hammer with him and swung at the wheel or something. I can't imagine running into another bike would cause a wheel to crack.

Sure, John should have been paying attention and not run into Mike, but the likelihood of breaking his bike in such an instance seems unlikely. I would say sorry for the accident but would not pay for something that I likely did not do.


What was the outcome? Obviously something happened. Either John paid, was DQ'd or the RD said whatever.

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Ian

Actually, Mike didn't move at all and stood there for a good 7-10 seconds...

Needless to say, I'm not defending either person's actions just trying to see what people think.

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Some of the world's greatest feats were accomplished by people not smart enough to know they were impossible.

He should man up, and pay up. He caused the accident - you can't assume someone is going to move, it's your responsibility to ride safely and not just ram into any stationary objects, no matter if you think they *should* or *should not* be stationary.

@TKOS - I thought the same thing. John was barely moving and it looked very minor, minor enough for John and myself to shrug it off until Mike came up to him after the race.

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Some of the world's greatest feats were accomplished by people not smart enough to know they were impossible.

He wasn't DQ'd YET... and John gave him his contact information to continue this at a later date.

I thought this was a race hazard, it wasn't malicious...it was an accident.

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Some of the world's greatest feats were accomplished by people not smart enough to know they were impossible.

Probably gave away all of the time gains from the disc while standing there.

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If you are a Canuck that engages in gratuitous bashing of the US, you are probably on my Iggy List. So, save your self a bunch of typing a response unless you also feel the need to gratuitously bash me. If so, have fun.
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f___ things up" - Barack Obama, 2020

That is my reaction.....part of the assumed risk of competing in a triathlon. It is reasonable and foreseeable that you could have a crash / accident with another rider and that there could be resulting damages.

I have never seen anyone come up to a guy after a crit and say "hey, you caused the crash that mangled my Zipps. Pay up!"

It is part of racing.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

From the way you worded it, it sounds like it is John's fault. It doesn't appear to me that Mike did anything wrong. If I were him I would word it differently than you did.

If that makes any difference in who, if anyone is liable I don't know, but I would be looking into a homeowners/renters insurance claim.

jaretj

During my Road Racing days stuff happened in the pack. Someone was at fault, but it didn't matter. You got mad, held a grudge, whatever. You didn't demand payment or you would go and tell on them.

I am sure my bike gets bumped around in Transistion. There are scratches and marks on it that I probably didn't do. Will I go around demanding people pay? No. I just try and put my stuff next to older guys with more expensive bikes. Live and learn.

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Ian

 
John's fault, definitely.

But it's a race, no $$$ should be exchanged, it's not like it was intentional.

I was trying to sound as unbiased as possible. Apparently I did a great job, lol

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Some of the world's greatest feats were accomplished by people not smart enough to know they were impossible.

A: there is no way that a collision of that type would have significantly damaged a carbon wheel. They are not exactly fragile. If by some happenstance damage was incurred then I would expect damage to the offending bike as well.

B: Mike is a dick for being in the way but fault would still rest on John for not avoiding an obstacle. If it were a tree or other non moving entity then he would have avoided it.

C: Mike is an extra dick for demanding a new wheel. Things happen during races that may damage your equipment. This is probably the same type of guy that would sue the DOT if he wrecked his bike because the road was wet.

If mike can prove that there IS damage to his wheel and that said damage was incured during the collision then he has rights to ask (although he should suck it up) for John to help with acuiring a new wheel. I don't think he should expect any more than the market value for the wheel minus damage of course. By no means should he expect a new wheel. John should also be able to confirm the cost. If I were John I would also try and confirm that Mike didn't wreck during the ride or in some other way damage the wheel before the collision. Perhaps he transported the wheel to the race inappropriately that may have caused the crack and didnt notice it until after the wreck.

I recently broke a taillight on a friends new car while moving kayaks around it. I bought a new one and installed it and afterward he paid for half. Shit happens but he was more concerned that I manned up and was responsible for my actions. It sucked for both of us but it was after all an accident. If your going to have nice toys that break easy you have to understand the risks.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
- Dr Seuss

John's fault, racers are responsible for being in control of their bike at all times. Dumba$$es are everywhere, you can't just go around running into them.

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"Never daunted, I will cope with adversity in my traditional manner....sulking and nausea" - Tom K. Ryan

Go Cyclonauts!

This a race and there is assumed risk when you enter a race.

I've never heard of paying for damages to equipment from race accidents. It's all part of the sport and that is why it's not always best to have the most expensive equipment in a race unless you can afford to replace it if it got damaged.

Bike racing equipment is like gambling money (or money you put in the stock market) ...

That is ... don't risk what you aren't willing to lose.

Sounds like John needs to keep his head up in the race. Mount/Dismount is always a cluster for whatever reason.

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Fit Endurance Coaching - Head Coach|Facebook
USAT L1 Coach | BikeFit Certified Fitter | Contributing Writer - Triathlete Magazine | ROKA

This, exactly. It's what in F1 would be referred to as a "racing incident". You race, shit happens sometimes. I'd like to think I'd be prepared to go around someone who stopped at the dismount (or mount), but if someone is stopped in the middle of the area and I run into him, I'm not cutting a check. The volunteers at races I've done have been loudly instructing everyone to keep moving through that area anyway.

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Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. -Enzo Ferrari

[edit]: I had the names reversed. I have corrected my original post below. Sorry for the confusion

I actually met Mike in transition after the race. He was ticked. (and, if things happened as he says they did, with good reason) As it turns out, the guy who ran into him and allegedly destroyed the disc ("John") was racked right next to me in transition (brand new Speed Concept). He told me that when John ran into him and broke the disk he said "Hey that's what happens sometimes in racing" -- or something to that effect, don't remember the exact quote but it was a fairly cavalier dismissal of an extremely expensive accident.

He also told me that "John" was actually DQ-ed on the spot for running into him.

I was glad to miss the actual confrontation. Frankly if I ran into someone and broke their disc and it happened as he said, I would buy them a new one and suck it up. But boy would I cry when I was entering my credit card number...