Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Race Ranger at Ironman Florida
Quote | Reply
Haven’t see this posted here yet. Pro tri news posted on their instagram stories that race ranger will be at Ironman Florida. The PTO really has pushed Ironman to do things I never thought they would. First the professional series now race ranger! Got to be exciting news for Joe Skipper for Florida.

Mission Kona Podcast
https://www.strava.com/athletes/2568182
Kona 2024 Qualifier
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [PayneM85] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think it will depend if IM actually uses race ranger to issue penalties. From what I understand, the PTO hasn’t been using race ranger to issues penalties. It’s been data/info only.

blog
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [stevej] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just having that constant feedback reduces penalties/drafting though.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [PayneM85] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It’s about time. I don’t think I’ve heard a pro yet say don’t want Race Ranger used in a race.

Let food be thy medicine...
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dcpinsonn wrote:
Just having that constant feedback reduces penalties/drafting though.

and along with that, the sport really needs some solid objective data regarding how close pros are actually riding instead of the massive amount of subjective "they look like they're riding way too close" that abounds in the sport at this time. Bravo for IronMan for starting down this path.

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [PayneM85] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Will the camera motos have it too?

Dimond Bikes Superfan
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [PayneM85] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PayneM85 wrote:
First the professional series now race ranger! Got to be exciting news for Joe Skipper for Florida.

If he learns what the respective light colors mean.

If he doesn’t - then he is going to absolutely lose his shit when everybody is “red”.

As to Ironman, big if true. I will believe it when I see it of course!

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [PayneM85] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Felix announced the other day that RR will be used at Roth next year.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThailandUltras wrote:
Felix announced the other day that RR will be used at Roth next year.

Just for pros. Say that because they make is sound like it’s going to be on 2000 age group bikes but it will not be.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [Triathletetoth] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Triathletetoth wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
Felix announced the other day that RR will be used at Roth next year.


Just for pros. Say that because they make is sound like it’s going to be on 2000 age group bikes but it will not be.
.
.
They were pretty quick to answer everyones questions on Facebook about who will be using RR on race day. Totally not possible to use it for age groupers in Roth (or anywhere) and that was clear.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThailandUltras wrote:
Triathletetoth wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
Felix announced the other day that RR will be used at Roth next year.


Just for pros. Say that because they make is sound like it’s going to be on 2000 age group bikes but it will not be.
.
.
They were pretty quick to answer everyones questions on Facebook about who will be using RR on race day. Totally not possible to use it for age groupers in Roth (or anywhere) and that was clear.

That’s why the had so many questions the headline was very misleading, said roth will use race range , not the pros will use race ranger.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [kajet] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kajet wrote:
If he learns what the respective light colors mean.

If he doesn’t - then he is going to absolutely lose his shit when everybody is “red”.


Good point.

Red = "getting close to the drafting zone".
Last edited by: WhittleFit: Oct 28, 23 10:07
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I was at US Pro Open in Milwaukee & the men's pro race had their RR lighting up all the way down the roads they were so close. Can't tell me as an eye witness they weren't drafting there. I'm not sure they really gave much of a draft penalty for those as they were signaled in the draft zone and didn't fall back as I watched them for several blocks. Pretty sure I have some photos too on my phone of some.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Care to post a couple?

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [kajet] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have some. Anyone recognize that guy? He didn't pass him, but just backed out afterwards.

Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [Lurker4] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This was 150m before a turn, but it's still obvious these guys behind Ben could have passed, would have gotten a penalty if Race Ranger was being used for that purpose.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm not certain of the light pattern or color they're currently using but do know that the unit will "light up" once a following athlete begins to get close to the draft zone and then changes the pattern or color once they've entered it. So the initial "light up" isn't damning of drafting unless you're aware of the pattern/color that denotes too close.

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [Lurker4] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Lurker4 wrote:
This was 150m before a turn, but it's still obvious these guys behind Ben could have passed, would have gotten a penalty if Race Ranger was being used for that purpose.

Definitely too close there. If the cones are set at 20 meters they have no excuse regarding spacing unless they were told beforehand that no calls would be made near turns. I do notice that Ben is up off the bars as if he's getting ready to brake for the turn.

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sciguy wrote:
Lurker4 wrote:
This was 150m before a turn, but it's still obvious these guys behind Ben could have passed, would have gotten a penalty if Race Ranger was being used for that purpose.

Definitely too close there. If the cones are set at 20 meters they have no excuse regarding spacing unless they were told beforehand that no calls would be made near turns. I do notice that Ben is up off the bars as if he's getting ready to brake for the turn.

It's pretty standard to not enforce drafting in braking zones and at the bottom of hills. It would be a mess. You'd have to guess how much the front rider is going to brake and back away prematurely. Either that or slam the brakes harder than the leader, which would quickly precipitate a pile up in a group of any size.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sciguy wrote:
I'm not certain of the light pattern or color they're currently using but do know that the unit will "light up" once a following athlete begins to get close to the draft zone and then changes the pattern or color once they've entered it. So the initial "light up" isn't damning of drafting unless you're aware of the pattern/color that denotes too close.

To be honest, this was the background of my request for photos. I was also alluding to one of my earlier posts re: Skipper's complaint about red lights. The sequence is: yellow - red - blue, where blue = illegal drafting.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [kajet] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kajet wrote:
sciguy wrote:
I'm not certain of the light pattern or color they're currently using but do know that the unit will "light up" once a following athlete begins to get close to the draft zone and then changes the pattern or color once they've entered it. So the initial "light up" isn't damning of drafting unless you're aware of the pattern/color that denotes too close.


To be honest, this was the background of my request for photos. I was also alluding to one of my earlier posts re: Skipper's complaint about red lights. The sequence is: yellow - red - blue, where blue = illegal drafting.

Yes, that's if they're still using the same designations as they mention on their web page. I'm not positive that they are.

The lights give 3 different signals. If no-one is within range the lights are off.

SIGNAL 1 - When you reach a threshold distance eg 16m behind the rider in front, the first light signal comes on; a yellow light. This gives you an indication that you’re in the safe zone.

SIGNAL 2 - When you cross a second threshold eg 14m, the signal changes to a red light. This tells you that you are now getting close to the drafting zone. If you get much closer, you’ll find yourself in the drafting zone.

SIGNAL 3 - If you then continue to progress towards the rider ahead and cross over the 12m threshold (if the event is working off World Triathlon’s common 12m drafting rule), the colour of the light changes to blue.

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sciguy wrote:
kajet wrote:
sciguy wrote:
I'm not certain of the light pattern or color they're currently using but do know that the unit will "light up" once a following athlete begins to get close to the draft zone and then changes the pattern or color once they've entered it. So the initial "light up" isn't damning of drafting unless you're aware of the pattern/color that denotes too close.


To be honest, this was the background of my request for photos. I was also alluding to one of my earlier posts re: Skipper's complaint about red lights. The sequence is: yellow - red - blue, where blue = illegal drafting.


Yes, that's if they're still using the same designations as they mention on their web page. I'm not positive that they are.

The lights give 3 different signals. If no-one is within range the lights are off.

SIGNAL 1 - When you reach a threshold distance eg 16m behind the rider in front, the first light signal comes on; a yellow light. This gives you an indication that you’re in the safe zone.

SIGNAL 2 - When you cross a second threshold eg 14m, the signal changes to a red light. This tells you that you are now getting close to the drafting zone. If you get much closer, you’ll find yourself in the drafting zone.

SIGNAL 3 - If you then continue to progress towards the rider ahead and cross over the 12m threshold (if the event is working off World Triathlon’s common 12m drafting rule), the colour of the light changes to blue.

If anything this should make it easier to draft. Previously you needed to guess not only where you were but also how close the officials thought it looked like. Pretty simple now, keep that light flicking between yellow and red and it confirms you're getting the max effect.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [mathematics] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mathematics wrote:
sciguy wrote:
Lurker4 wrote:
This was 150m before a turn, but it's still obvious these guys behind Ben could have passed, would have gotten a penalty if Race Ranger was being used for that purpose.

Definitely too close there. If the cones are set at 20 meters they have no excuse regarding spacing unless they were told beforehand that no calls would be made near turns. I do notice that Ben is up off the bars as if he's getting ready to brake for the turn.

It's pretty standard to not enforce drafting in braking zones and at the bottom of hills. It would be a mess. You'd have to guess how much the front rider is going to brake and back away prematurely. Either that or slam the brakes harder than the leader, which would quickly precipitate a pile up in a group of any size.

I don't show these pictures to attack these guys. I don't think ANY of them were trying to get a free ride but just the normal course dynamics. Frodeno absolutely showed by his body language "F%k I'm in the zone and need to pass this guy, but don't want to burn a match to do it right here..." and backed out.

I could see an IM official in Kona nailing him for that and giving the other guys a break.

My main point in showing the images though is in regards to enforcement. I would assume the detail any official has monitoring a computer knows for sure a light went off and a zone was entered. But doesn't know exactly where in the course. And if they even have GPS position, likely the delay makes it irrelevant unless you're on a long stretch of road. They just expect to see lights turn on as athletes bunch up around hills and turns...and the athletes knowing this? Enter the draft zones more aggressively around hills and turns.

Anyway, race ranger seems like a nice tool for helping athletes police themselves. An official with a judgement call is still needed. And the PTO hasn't shown a willingness to the latter.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [mathematics] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mathematics wrote:
sciguy wrote:
kajet wrote:
sciguy wrote:
I'm not certain of the light pattern or color they're currently using but do know that the unit will "light up" once a following athlete begins to get close to the draft zone and then changes the pattern or color once they've entered it. So the initial "light up" isn't damning of drafting unless you're aware of the pattern/color that denotes too close.


To be honest, this was the background of my request for photos. I was also alluding to one of my earlier posts re: Skipper's complaint about red lights. The sequence is: yellow - red - blue, where blue = illegal drafting.


Yes, that's if they're still using the same designations as they mention on their web page. I'm not positive that they are.

The lights give 3 different signals. If no-one is within range the lights are off.

SIGNAL 1 - When you reach a threshold distance eg 16m behind the rider in front, the first light signal comes on; a yellow light. This gives you an indication that you’re in the safe zone.

SIGNAL 2 - When you cross a second threshold eg 14m, the signal changes to a red light. This tells you that you are now getting close to the drafting zone. If you get much closer, you’ll find yourself in the drafting zone.

SIGNAL 3 - If you then continue to progress towards the rider ahead and cross over the 12m threshold (if the event is working off World Triathlon’s common 12m drafting rule), the colour of the light changes to blue.


If anything this should make it easier to draft. Previously you needed to guess not only where you were but also how close the officials thought it looked like. Pretty simple now, keep that light flicking between yellow and red and it confirms you're getting the max effect.

I'm OK with that especially if IM goes to the 20 meter distance where the benefit really is quite minimal.

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Quote Reply
Re: Race Ranger at Ironman Florida [Lurker4] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Lurker4 wrote:
mathematics wrote:
sciguy wrote:
Lurker4 wrote:
This was 150m before a turn, but it's still obvious these guys behind Ben could have passed, would have gotten a penalty if Race Ranger was being used for that purpose.


Definitely too close there. If the cones are set at 20 meters they have no excuse regarding spacing unless they were told beforehand that no calls would be made near turns. I do notice that Ben is up off the bars as if he's getting ready to brake for the turn.


It's pretty standard to not enforce drafting in braking zones and at the bottom of hills. It would be a mess. You'd have to guess how much the front rider is going to brake and back away prematurely. Either that or slam the brakes harder than the leader, which would quickly precipitate a pile up in a group of any size.


I don't show these pictures to attack these guys. I don't think ANY of them were trying to get a free ride but just the normal course dynamics. Frodeno absolutely showed by his body language "F%k I'm in the zone and need to pass this guy, but don't want to burn a match to do it right here..." and backed out.

I could see an IM official in Kona nailing him for that and giving the other guys a break.

My main point in showing the images though is in regards to enforcement. I would assume the detail any official has monitoring a computer knows for sure a light went off and a zone was entered. But doesn't know exactly where in the course. And if they even have GPS position, likely the delay makes it irrelevant unless you're on a long stretch of road. They just expect to see lights turn on as athletes bunch up around hills and turns...and the athletes knowing this? Enter the draft zones more aggressively around hills and turns.

Anyway, race ranger seems like a nice tool for helping athletes police themselves. An official with a judgement call is still needed. And the PTO hasn't shown a willingness to the latter.

Yeah it's always going to be tough to enforce any rule on a 50 mile course without an army of officials. It's basically already a defacto rule that you can enter the zone by mistake for a few seconds and back out.

The issue of course with pictures for drafting is there's no context. Was he just passed? Was he going around? Did the lead rider slow? It's been the defense of pro's and AG's alike since the rule was implemented.

It's going to be a huge can of worms if they use Race Ranger as a standalone, slam dunk 100% penalty indicator. Even if they figure out GPS and say it's only enforced on these sections of the road there's still a dozen reasons someone could enter the zone inadvertently. Imagine a pro race with 100% enforcement. I'm leading the group and there's 6 guys behind me. If I soft pedal for a few strokes the guy directly behind may be able to slow, but it's going to accordion back and get everyone else into the zone. The guy in 7th needs to pass the guy in 6th, but the guy in 6th also needs to pass the guy in 5th, etc. Someone's getting a penalty.
Quote Reply

Prev Next