Mark,

I'm older than both DD and Dev :-). Fort what it is worth, I'm 61 and feel exactly what you feel only it has progressed further. Many moons ago I ran 70.3s in 1.30s . . . then it was 1.40s. Now, lucky to keep it 1.50s. My swim and bike are still pretty strong . . . the run just keeps sliding. Note, my run has always been my weakest of the three disciplines.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

We are the same age, and my experience is very close to yours. Except, I started with 70.3 races 5 years ago, so I do not have the history. Though, I have been running forever. In the last couple years, my open HM pace has dropped by at least 30 seconds/mile. And it is well slower than a minute/mile from my 40s. My bike performance is barely affected. I cannot do positive splits in a 70.3 run, and I start the run feeling OK but fade hard after bout 3 miles. I think this is age, though I want to lose 10 lbs. to see if I can get some of my former running mojo back. (I am still a stud in Olympic and Sprint distances, however.)

The difference between your open half (1:33) and your HIM Half (around 1:50) is a lot. That's what I notice. That is more than 15 minutes. My open half is about 1:30 and three years ago I did my last HIM Half in 1:37. So that is only 7 minutes. (I'm 59 years old now).

I see the problem but am afraid I do not know the answer. (I guess you do bricks regularly?)

I'm 57 and the last few years the bottom has completely dropped out of my running. I've not done any half or full IMs for many years, as I'm mostly a sprint/Oly guy, but I continued to race open halves until my early 50s. For context my open half PR was 1:15:50. I ran 1:18:45 when I was 46. Even as recently as age 50 I would do threshold intervals (stuff like 6x1 mile w/1:00 recovery jog) at right about 6:00 pace. By 55 it nearly killed me to do them at 6:45. I haven't even tried anything like that the last two years as I've been struggling with other issues. But I've been completely demoralized at how quickly I dropped off after hitting 50. Same for the shorter stuff. We have a big local 5 miler here on July 4th. I had a long streak of running them sub-30. I did that for the last time at age 50 running 29:45. The next year was 30:40. Missed it the next year, then 32:05. Haven't done it since but I figure I'd be around 34 minutes at this point. Dealing with slowing down so much as I've aged has been a really tough thing to face. It sucks, but that's life I suppose. Although like David mentioned above, my swim and bike have slowed at a FAR slower rate since hitting 50.

51 yr old female here and I ran marathons before Ironman and 70.3s. There is no way I could ever run what I did in my early 40s at my current age (open marathon PR is a 3:07:56 at age 43). I did my first triathlons at age 44. Two sprints and my first 70.3 (Pumpkinman). My run split for my first 70.3 was a low 1:34 and I won a prize for fastest female runner including the elites. It was a bit hilly, high 70sF sunny and humid. And there's no way I could even consider doing that time at age 51. My last faster running year was at age 48 when I ran an open half marathon at 1:30. And later did IM Copenhagen marathon at 3:36.

Aging is real. We get slower. I just did a a 70.3 and at age 51 my run was a 1:43 (ugh) but I did have a ton of problems and setbacks this season. I'm hoping to run a sub 4 hour marathon in IMMD and it's a flat course. 3 years ago I would be hoping for another 3:36 time (also did a 3:37 in Mont Tremblant at age 46). I have finally accepted that my 51 year old self is not going to be doing crazy fast training runs or laying down fast run splits in my triathlons any more. But I can still do the best I can with what I have left. Just keep moving.

Hey at least you men don't have to worry about menopause. That is grotesquely real, it's a beast and pretty terrible. Nothing like loosing your hormones, having hot flashes, loosing sleep, massive mood swings and loss of heat tolerance. Good times.....you guys are lucky.

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Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

Hey thanks everyone for the replies so far
It appears as if I am just going to have to accept this as it "is what it is!"
It is crazy because the drop off has been swift and significant
I always read that cycling and swimming stick with you much longer than running and now I am living that reality
To answer a couple of questions
Yes I do bricks, a lot of them. Some ez, some moderate and some pretty hard...just depends on the training schedule
And yes, that 15' delta between my open half last year and my 70.3 run splits sticks out. In my mid to later 40s the delta was about 5-6' between open and 70.3 half marathon.
One thing I failed to mention and I have no idea whether any one has experience with this
I did switch to shorter cranks around the same time I began seeing the drop off in my run time
Probably just a coincidence since my reasoning for the switch was the fact that I was getting older/ less flexibility. The shorter cranks open up the hip angle and I read in theory should help with the run off the bike

Thanks again everyone

I wanted to post something positive here. It's not all doom and gloom as we age. Running yes, but the swim/bike do not deteriorate like the run.

My cycling has improved. Not sure if it's from less running but I had a pretty good bike at my last 70.3 a few weeks ago. Normally I have the 1st, 2nd or 3rd fastest run in my AG. This time I had the second fastest bike in my AG which was not common in my 40s. Usually I would be way back in the swim, maybe top 10 in the bike and then run my way up to a solid finish. So while my run is slowing down, but my bike is not. And focus on your swim too! It's a technique sport so while fitness is important in the swim, technique can always improve no matter what age you are.

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Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

Hey, my scenario is likely no a good one since I had a really bad disc injury at an ART chiro session (straw that broke the camels back) in 2015, round 8 weeks after I did IM Tahoe. The weekend before I ran a 1.5 mile annual "race against myself" at my college circuit where we had our military fitness test in 9:30. That was at 50. At 44 I ran it in 8:32, at 22, I ran it in 7:08. But then from 2015 to 2019 I could barely walk so I was swimming like a maniac. I started back in Olympic tris in 2019 at 54 and it was a massive achievement to break 50 minutes. I did one half IM at the end of the year just and ran 1:53 and did 1:52 5 months later at Dubai 70.3. I have no idea what my open half marathon is, but I doubt I would break 1:45. My open half at 44 was 1:21 and I was running half IM's splits in 1:26-1:33 range depending on how hard the bike course was and how humid and hot it was.

I honestly don't know how much the slowdown from 1:26-1:33 range in my mid 40''s in 70.3 to 1:53 last spring in Dubai before lockdown is age related vs mechanical limitation from injury and partial recovery only. I would like to think it is half and half. If we say it is 25 minute delta from 1:28 to 1:53, would I be able to run a 1:40 now without a traumatic injury? I don't know and honestly it does not matter. I gotta work with what I have (or don't have). But based on people around me, I actually think most of this is aging as much as I would like to blame it on the injury side.

I think another telling aspect is hill climbs on the bike. I have not gained a ton of weight...I have gone from 138 lbs race weight to 143 lbs current weight. 5 lbs is not nothing on the run and it shows up on hillclimbs....some of the weight gain you just can't help.

at the end of the day to quote one of my mentors , "Our bodies are a recording of our lives"

I turn 50 and a week later you're calling me north of 50?

dang dude, that's brutal, just brutal. The first round is certainly on you!

But yeah, as you age I often see the S decline a bit in people, mostly bc they neglect swimming missing an extra day or two per month and the R drops off while the B stays the same or even sometimes see a small year to year FTP gain, although mostly it's still below their highest last 10yr FTP.

My regression has been minimal until recently.

2017 lost 4 month running to a soleus tear - didn't race

2018 I ran just under 1:30 in a half. (also my first year back to LC racing in 8yr. I was probably on avg a 1:27:15 runner prior to the break, if you avg'd out all my halfs from 2006-10), had a run injury that kept me out of Tempe 70.3. Going into the last 3 weeks prior to the race did a few 5k park runs right at 5:54-6:00 pace where we'd run 5 miles to the park run, do it, then run 2-4 miles home. Figured I was going to run at worst 1:30 until I tweaked my soleus 10d before the race. Tried to run, made it out of T2 with a really big lead in the M45-49 and that was that and iirc was in the top 10 overall into T2.

2019 was a weird year. First half, Crystal Coast half Booty. Was told when ~ mile 2.5 that I had a 7:15 lead at the mile 1 timing mat so I shut it down and ran a 1:37 something. Next half had a duel over the first 7 miles of the run where I was leading, dropped, got back to them, then had to pee, dropped back, then caught back up & passed for the AG W running about 1:31:15. (I was 100% cool with this bc I had to stop on my pee break instead of walking like normal due to a lady walking towards me, figured it was sub 1:31 otherwise and when I crossed the line I was spent enough that medical sat with me in the grass for 10 minutes)
Last half of the year was coming off an injury where I didn't run for 6 weeks. Did 4 weeks of run training, had 2 runs in the 10-11 mile range and got in ~ 100 miles before the race where I ran a 1:35 low.

At Choo this year I had what was my worst ever (that I can remember) run split in a half. I had zero get up and go. Basically was stuck in the same gear for the run & started fading a bit even. Usually I was a negative split type of guy. Had about 6 weeks of running under my belt from an injury. Ran a few ticks under 1:41. I knew my Choo 70.3 run wasn't going to be great going in. But to run a 1:40:59...i mean I was WTFing myself the entire run. I had figured, worst case a high 1:37. Even when not in great shape I've always been able to ask more of my body on the run than my run fitness may have warranted. I've been able to punch up a bit coming off injury. Sure I may have been knackered for an extra day or two post race, but quite often I could really lay it out. At Choo? That was a big hard NO.

Flatted out after grabbing the lead in the M50-54 AG at Salem 70.3 this past weekend so no data point there.

Up until 2017 I may have missed at a few days here and there, at most a week tops from an ache or pain from running. Now I miss weeks and months. Since then I've never run more than 10 months in a year and have run as little as 7mo with an average of ~9mo all due to injury. Kinda sucks to see the yearly hit in overall volume, which for as a guy who does well if not better on higher volume/lower intensity is a hard knock.

The second strike that happened due to covid is I didn't get on the track in 2019. That really did me no favors. I had an early season run injury pre Covid that knocked me out late February. Started running again the first week of April. Prior to that I was cruising along at 7:45-50, after it was was and still is 8:15 for the day in day out runs. The run fitness/speed did not come back/come back as fast as normal. I wonder if I should blame getting a puppy in May?

I've gone through this with numerous athletes over the decades coaching. It sucks. Yet Father Time favors no old person when it comes to running.

The reality is I'm having to change my paradigm a bit now that I'm 50, in fact we all probably should. That first break point was ~ 40 when I realized I was just a touch slower on the run, maybe :30-:45 over 10k. Then held steady until about 45-46 when I realized I was ~ :15-:20/5k slower compared to even 3 seasons prior. That held steady until now I guess.

We/you/I need to start thinking about other things when racing. Before maybe it was being in the top 25 AGers overall at a 70.3 or putting myself in a position where I could compete with anyone in 35+ AGs overall and be competitive with the 20-35s off the bike.

Now it may be realizing that you can still be there leaving T2 but the running fast is a young(er) person's sport. It's now about making your best race happen. In some respects, at least for me, it's less tactical. Before I'd be concerned about everyone I was racing around, how could I capitalize on their errors, did they look like they were working too hard on the bike, could I break them or cause them to blow up, how was their breathing on the run, could I string them along for a few miles at slightly faster, what would that do to me and how would it impact my race? Racing was a big chess match.....with everyone. Must slay you, you, you, oh hey friend you also, really everyone.

Now it's more about it'd be cool to be the fastest 40+, 45+ but most importantly is how do I maximize my fitness for this race, what's my strategy to be as fast as I can. I'm worried less about people not in my AG than ever before, at least at national/world level races. Locally I still want to beat the young pups bc you know old age and treachery!

FWIW I suffered my fair share of beatdowns at the hands of David when I was growing up. I mean a lot, a lot of beatdowns. Smith mtn lake, triangle tri, latta plantation, Pinehurst tri, the list could go on and on and on.
I'd get out of the water :30 behind him and then be 4 minutes back at T2 after riding a 58:00/40k.

While he may not have been the fastest runner in the area he was so fast on the S/B that he was often fighting for the W in the local/regional scene. A scene that was littered with guys who regularly went sub 1:55 for an oly/had their pro card/finished top 20 at pro nationals/finished top 20 pros at IMH/raced on the BLTS circuit/were on covers of the tri rags of the time. It was common to be the first non card carrying pro across the line at 10th or 11th overall in the regional scene with a 2:01 for an oly. It was not uncommon to drop from the top 5 overall with a 17:00 5k off the bike...ask me how I know.

The TLDR bullet point is
-- as we age we can expect the earliest onset of decline to come from running and often 5, 10 or more years before we see it swimming or cycling.
-- At some point we need to adjust our expectations and focus more on how we compare to our same aged peers rather than the race as a whole

-- Consistency is still king. Taking time off/getting injured is the fastest way to become slower

-- it would probably behoove every female 40+ and every male 45+ to go a minimal of 3 lifts 2x per week sets of 4-6 reps with a weight you can't do 8x. A back exercise like lat pull, a chest press and a squat. Mostly for muscle mass preservation, bone density preservation & strength preservation. Preserving strength as you age is performance enhancing. (wanders out to pull up bar does a set of 5, wanders back in)

-- The sport that often gets neglected the most is swimming, that seems to become more prevalent as we age. Making sure you stay in the water as frequently, maybe more frequently, might be an effective strategy to move up the pecking order in races, both overall and especially in your AG.

-- In a weird twist of science if you're in the M50-54 you should probably only S/B/R 1x per week as this has been shown to be most effective, along with gatorskin tires, rudy wingspans and only using 30-40mm deep rims when racing.

Hope that helps

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

You want to read this https://www.amazon.com/...Strong/dp/1937715264

Hey, hey, hey . . . was that a criticism or compliment?? And, you had to go back 30+ years to find an example??!!

I'll never forget that day many years ago . . . I think you were 17, and I was wondering who the heck that kids was who was up with me on the bike!! And, right there solidified a 30+ year friendship that quite frankly is more important to me than my run times. THAT is the most important thing to know North of 50 . . . relationships are more meaningful than race time/place.

Now, if I can just hold myself together in my half next weekend all will be good :-)!

P.S. My swim and bike are still pretty good.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Just a general reply to this thread. Are most of you guys heavier than 10, 20, 30 years ago. It seems for me I used to hover at 143 lbs in off season, 139/140 in general training and 136-138 lbs around A events. Now it seems it is 148-150 lbs in off season, 145ish in main traiing blocks, and 143 leading into racing (I have not raced, in a while so I have not had the discipline to replace chips and ice cream with celery....just not willing to sacrifice for lame placings). But since I don't go through that annual cycle of getting lean, the overall habits are less like a racer chasing high performance, and more like an exerciser who wants to be fit but enjoy life.

Some of the ongoing sacrifices I made for sport 10, 20, 30 years ago, just don't seem as worthwhile. I have other things in life I need to apply a ton of mental focus to and I just can't devote as much energy to sharpen my body for sport. The outcome is that overall the body deteriorates, because you can't really sharpen for 2 months a year. It is a daily process that you get used to (go for the celery or apple vs the ice cream in Jan, pays off in July).

I'm 54 now, at 47 i was the fastest I've ever been. I ran so well at REV3 Florida I thought it was the beginning of a new era for me.

Instead i got a little slower the next year and a little slower the next two. The following year i had a problem with a hamstring and sympathetic over training because i was trying to get back to my 47 year old stats.

Now, whatever the run is, is what it is. I really haven't done a Tri since 2019 with only one offroad race last year and BOW tomorrow. This winter I'll probably spend a significant time in the pool and continue racing at the velodrome while just doing maintenence on the run. The run seems to beat me up the most.

When the Tri season nears, I'll spend 12-16 weeks working on the run because that seems to be my breaking point right now.

I trained and raced like a 30 year old, well into my 50’s. I fell apart at 57, the run crashed and burned the worst. I revamped everything I was doing, spending much more time in the pool, backing way off on my bike intensity while still riding high miles, and backing down to 3 runs/week.

With that said, I found the local 50-54 age group still insanely competitive. By 55-59, a good half the local competitors were gone, and the competition was getting easier. This was my first summer as a 60 year old, and it’s become very lonely. I’m undefeated in my age group, including my city’s largest half marathon, premier 10k, and the states USAT Olympic tri age group championships. So although I’m getting slower, and my run has fallen off a cliff, I’m winning my age group by more than ever. So it’s not like I’m battling it out with folks in the race... the competition is now to see who can keep going, and make it to the starting line. It’s become a race of attrition. Good or bad, it is what it is. I’ve gone to races, where everyone in my age group podiums, because that’s how many showed up. I guess that’s the reward, for sticking at it, all these years.

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Athlinks / Strava

I am racing my first Olympic tri tomorrow since Dubai 70.3 in Feb 2020 (before pandemic...that was a 32 min clusterfuck swim - 2:18 bike - 1:53 run). I will report back on tomorrow's race on this thread. I don't have a power meter installed so that part will be blind. But it is 6x6.67km loops so I will be able to see my pace (ideally sub 11 min per loop, but it has two 180 degree turns, so 12 of those to kill times). Run is 2x5km. There are a couple of studly 55-59's in the field who have already qualified for Kona, but I suspect I will beat them out of T2, and then they will smoke me on the run.

Duathlete here but I think my experience still applies.
Im a good 45 seconds to 1 minute per mile slower at race pace than I used to be (Im 55 now) at my best.
Cycling Im still right up there but running has certainly taken a hit.
Essentially my training is the same as Ive done for decades (twice per week intervals in the 400 meter to 1600 meter range) as well as one tempo run.
The effort still feels the same at race pace but the times have gone south.
Its just the inevitable slowing that comes with age I assume.

I'm 62. I've done running races every year since I was 16 and have never had a long lay-off from training or racing. My weight is within 10 pounds of when I graduated HS. A couple of years ago I realized my 5K race pace was now slower than what my pace was in my marathon PR. I looked up the world's best 5K time by a 60 year-old and discovered that pace is more than 20 seconds slower than the open world record marathon pace. It happens. I didn't experience any dramatic slowdowns from year to year during my 50s, just a gradual slowing, but I was done racing tri long course by then.

HUGE Compliment.

You were one of the guys who inspired me to stay with triathlon when I was deciding between that and golf (was a low 80s self taught golfer at the time I was starting tris)

And fully agree the friendship with you and the others is way more important. To this day I still stay in touch with a few of them.

I still remember one race that was some regional champs or something and I entered in the AG field. The RD put me in the elite/pro field without asking me. I somehow managed 3rd OV and was very excited about the $900 paycheck. That was a very significant sum of money to me as I had a lump sum of $5k to pay for college and the rest was out of my pocket.

The RD then told me he wasn't going to pay me the $900 3rd place check bc I didn't have a pro card. Some of the guys went and argued with him. When he refused, a few of them scrounged up whatever cash everyone that won $ had with them, took me to lunch and bought me a 12 pack for the trip home. (I rode with someone so wasn't driving).

It's things like that, all the help that you guys gave me and the friendships that endure that I cherish from that era.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

It would be interesting to know what is the lowest hanging fruit to maintain running fitness as we age. Intervals? Tempo runs? HIIT? Strides?

I'm 55 and have seen a decline in run pace over the last few years.

I looked up times from 70.3 Worlds in Nice on obstri. Choose top 10% and top 20% run times which in my view these are all solid competitive athletes. As one would expect the field size decreases by age rather dramatically as well as the times.

AG Top 10% Top 20% No. of Athletes
M45-49 1:27:22 1:30:26 507
M50-54 1:30:13 1:32:57 354
M55-59 1:34:00 1:36:55 214
M60-64 1:40:22 1:43:25 119
M65-69 1:43:44 1:50:46 72
M70-74 2:09:12 2:14:23 35

devashish_paul wrote:

Just a general reply to this thread. Are most of you guys heavier than 10, 20, 30 years ago. It seems for me I used to hover at 143 lbs in off season, 139/140 in general training and 136-138 lbs around A events. Now it seems it is 148-150 lbs in off season, 145ish in main training blocks, and 143 leading into racing (I have not raced, in a while so I have not had the discipline to replace chips and ice cream with celery....just not willing to sacrifice for lame placings).

oh yes.. used to be 160 race weight, 165-170 off seasons, age 21 to 55 or so. Now there is no race weight, can't train consistently anymore.. 175-180 off season but the whole year is off season.. stopped drinking alcohol, never ate chips or ice cream but once a year maybe, can't shake the flab..

posted this before but it's what happens.
Times at a 5k I try to do each year, from age 50 -
2010 20:31
2013 22:37
2015 23:25
2018 24:27
2019 25:50

No 2020 race, I'm expecting about 30min this year.. training substantially the same over all those years. I try to do run focus blocks, get injured, lots of biking until I can run again, and so on..
Still moving though, call that the win..

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

There is a strong neurological component linked to the decline in running. I remember writing a post detailing a bit on this sometime ago if you want to search.

If you think about what we do on the bike compared to the run there are lots of short, super hard efforts on the bike. Crushing your favorite :15 hill, or sprinting for the city limit sign etc.

As we age in running there is less and less of that. Adding in some of these things could help mitigate that decline. I don't think it's going to take you from ~ a 25:30 to a 25:00 but it may help you stay around that 25:30 for an extra year and slow down the next season's decline a bit.

I'd think strides would help a bit but I also think doing some hard 200s might be a good solution as well. I doubt doing something like 8-12x200 would be as beneficial just because the velocities aren't high enough as the set progresses. I also wonder about the injury risk

It may be better to do 2-4 all out 200s on enough recovery that you're maintaining velocity on all of them or something like 2-4 x :30 -:45 all out.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Speaking from North of 70---dang you guys are fast! My motto is Citius Fortious Altius = Swifter (yes the drop off is significant, but I'll always be swift) Stronger (it takes a lot of strength to get out of bed at 5am to ride my bike to the pool for 5000y) Older (I know it means higher, but in German Alt is old, therefore I can do what I want --like run at 12mph on the treadmill and feel great) .Remember SBRH = SwimBikeRunHappy
Bob Swift

no one is running fast in 55+ in tris.

Jogging....lots and lots and frequently as slow as you want. Keep a lid on weight (almost impossible). Most guys going sub 1:40 in a half IM in 55+ are kind of heroic. 1:40 is barely 5 min per km. This does not require much speed.....just not slow down.

Lots of guys breaking themselves doing intensity at higher age.....this is what the pool is for. You can do endless intensity in every workout.

Lots of jogging and some stride will suffice....get the intensity in at the pool.

I am 7x per week in the pool doing intensity of some kind almost every day. No way I can match that running and it is possible on the bike, but then watch out for all the shortened hip flexors and reduced range of motion that bites one anyway on the run. You can't run fast in the aero position LOL!