Last year I was training with paddles. Paddles made my swimming faster, but I've got an issue with my shoulders. So I stopped my drills with them. I'm not sure if it can improve your swim.

Theyre useful in certain contexts, but not necessary at all. I would not call them a “must have”

A buoy, appropriate paddles and kickboard are must haves. A snorkel is close. Fins are way down the list.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I use strokemasters and TYRs and the first thing I do is take out the wrist strap and throw it away. Doing this will clean up your hand entry in about 2 min of work.

RE: paddles in general, I would recommend moderation. Personally they make things easier for me, which makes me lazy and soon enough all my sets are with paddles.

That increases distance per stroke, obviously. In fact it is typically the best way to increase distance per stroke. Care to explain how paddles help decrease drag?!?!

Gear in my bag, ranked by importance (as a distance freestyle swimmer):

Snorkel
Paddles
Pull buoy
Fins

Not in the bag:
Kick board (use the house boards or none at all)
Tempo trainer
Bands


My input on fins: for AOS, who have runner ankles and hips, these will help the kick and ROM for the kick. Essential

Re-rank the swim bag for AOS:
Snorkel
Fins
Paddles
Buoy

tl;dr;

I think paddles have their place, but mostly for technique, and rest.

I often will do 5 x 500s, Swim, Pull w/Padles, Swim, Pull w/Padles, Swim

The 500s with paddles are faster and EASIER (lower HR).

I didn't say they do? But I guess an argument could be made regarding entry (at least for ppl struggling with crossing over), if they have the right paddles :)

I've use them. My conclusions are:
1) there is no correct way to enter the water (though there are incorrect ways). So I find it frustrating that they provide "false positives" by falling off on the entry.
2) but they help start the catch earlier so it is worth the frustration.

I think paddles have their place, but mostly for technique, and rest.

I often will do 5 x 500s, Swim, Pull w/Padles, Swim, Pull w/Padles, Swim

The 500s with paddles are faster and EASIER (lower HR).
So a few of you have insinuated that swimming with paddles is resting, or somehow easier. So what is it that is keeping you all in this camp from just swimming harder with paddles, so that you are working at the same HR and level you were just swimming?? I agree if you swim the same time pulling as swimming, it is easier, but what if you go 6 seconds a 100 faster? It really is perplexing me that when some of you put on paddles, you lose the ability to go hard, what is up with that?? Going hard is a function of your body, not the toys you choose to use. And guess what, I can kick with fins just as hard as I kick without them, just going a lot faster of course.
Its ok that some of you choose to go easy when you pull, but it is not the paddles or buoy's fault...

And to AJ, pulling makes you more streamlined because you are going faster. The faster you swim, the higher in the water you ride..

Not contradicting you at all Monty, and you are right, you can work just as hard with paddles/fins and just go faster. My point is more a counter to the "more resistance" theme. It's not like training with a weight vest, or even big gear work on the bike. It's more like big gear work, while going downhill. It feels harder, but you can go just as fast with less effort, or go faster with the same effort.

Not contradicting you at all Monty,//

Ok, but the way you say things, seems to insinuate that is how it is, for example:


The 500s with paddles are faster and EASIER (lower HR).


You should have added, the way "I" swim them. A lot of people in these threads are fairly new to swimming, and might get the wrong idea. I dont mean to be nit picky, but you are not the only one who says things like this, and I guess I just want people to know that you can actually do a very hard workout with whatever toys you choose. Virtually all of my pulling is done harder than I swim, so I could say," pulling is way harder than swimming with a high HR"(((for me)).


And that would be giving people the wrong idea about pulling, too...(-;

I hear you. I guess I tried, I did mention the set I was doing and that was the results for me, for that set.

The trick is to find a race that will let you use the paddles. WTC get rather sideways about it... or so I'm told anyway.

#rememberfinman

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Personally. Swimming is more about reducing drag then it is about pushing harder and faster for longer.

You can only go faster by adjusting one of three variables, the force per stroke is great but needs an additional endurance factor to it. Thus requiring massive training

Streamlining yourself and slowing the stroke down, can give more of a percentage gain in time than power.

I only ever use me and a pair of goggles. Toys tend to ruin stroke

Kickboards tend to give a bad practice for kicking at wrong times

Flippers give an unrealistic motion while swimming

Paddles dont let you feel the water and put strain on the shoulders

Swimming costumes ruin the freedom pf the stroke

3 things:
1) "The faster you swim, the higher in the water you ride.." What is this in reference too and what point are you trying to make?

2) "Would you council a swimmer taking 25 strokes per lap to increase their turnover to get faster?" I would advise anyone to gather their lowest hanging fruit to get faster and in most cases that means increasing turnover. I would think you agree on the first part (gather the lowest hanging fruit) and the second part is just an opinion.

3) Not for nothing but I use paddles extensively. I've gotten older and more frail and I feel like their effectiveness for me is waning. But the best usage of paddles I can recall was doing 2 sets of 100's on a really long reset interval performed at 200 pace. The first set was with paddles and the second set without. A couple of guys were swimming their 100's under 51 seconds. I wasn't one of them but I was close. When I swam with CW I saw Olympians throw down some really sick - like 21s from a push - paddle work. Perhaps I am misreading you but it seems you are talking to me as if my knowledge base on the subject is low.

Do you watch Cody Miller’s vlog? The other day he posted one where either Blake P or Ryan Held swam 20.3 with fins and paddles for 50 free LCM.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

"The faster you swim, the higher in the water you ride.." What is this in reference too and what point are you trying to make? //

I was answering this query that you had earlier;

Care to explain how paddles help decrease drag?!?!

I have found that the faster you swim the higher you ride, and the higher your legs will rise. To me, that is reducing drag, thus my comment.


And yes, I know your extensive credentials in swimming, and that is why I like to have these discussions with you, and the others here with a long history in swimming. Intelligent debates are not that common these days, among a wide range of topics. SO I cherish these threads and people that take part in the rare occurrences. (-;

I’m a big believer in using paddles/bouy. I pull 20% to 35% of my yardage over the course of a week. It builds and maintains strength, as I’d been away from swimming for ~30 years. Gradual build up to that level over last couple of years, being careful of shoulders. Really helps smooth out the catch and feeling water pressure on hands. I often pull a lot the day after a hard bike/run when legs are trashed. IMHO an essential part of swim training , especially for triathletes.

I always get a chuckle when these kind of threads pop up and I know Monty will chime in. Never forget the day about 15 years ago when Monty dropped into the Carlsbad Masters workout, swam lane 1 and did the whole workout wearing huge red paddles (like small frying pans).

Anyhow to respond to the OP, I think people are confusing two things here. The OP asked about doing drills with paddles which I don't necessarily think is a good idea unless that specific drill can be enhanced using paddles. But then proceeded to ask about doing the whole workout with paddles which is something completely different. I would think if you are swimming a lot, then doing a whole workout with paddles would be fine once in a while. Not exactly my preference but....

I was an AOS about 35 years ago and after all those years I am the fastest I have ever been right now. Most of that is due to having a really good swim group to swim with, part of it is just pure yardage and swimming more (workouts average anywhere from 4800 to 6k per workout LCM) and finally to actual workout make up. Our workouts usually contain a pull set in the middle of the workout that accounts for about 1/3 of our total yardage. Our pull sets are typically paddles, pull buoys and an 8"x4" deflated tube around the feet. Some parts of the pull set we may remove the paddles and keep everything else, or switch the tube out for a band or even do a short set of 50's with just a band (ugh!). Our little group aren't exactly hacks either, I'm the slowest and our lane has a handful of Ironman overall victories including Kona by some of the guys/gals in our lane.
BTW the one thing we never do is kick sets. I don't ask why I just show up and do the workout.
My point is, get a good group to swim with that pushes you, swim a lot and swim frequently and mix it up.

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Mike Plumb, TriPower MultiSports
Professional Running, Cycling and Multisport Coaching, F.I.S.T. Certified
http://www.tripower.org

Big fins help me the most while practicing the timing of a two beat kick. They stop the flutter and I'm more aware of the axis of the core. Usually after 200-400 of two beat swimming with fins, I'm good for quite awhile.

Would like to use paddles; but, would anyone recommend using them if your shoulder is sore?

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Depends on what you mean by "sore". If you mean just tired, they're fine. If you mean that there's pain, i.e. an injury, then generally no, its a bad idea to use paddles in those circumstances.

However, to make things a little less clear, if the shoulder pain is stemming from poor mechanics on the swim, and using (small) paddles helps to correct those mechanics, they can be a good thing. Just start with small paddles, barely bigger than your hand. and take off the wrist strap, you just want the strap over your middle finger.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

No kicking?!?!?! Blasphemy!!! Not even in warm-up??? So, does your squad swim all 4 strokes, do IM sets, etc??? Or is it all freestyle all the time???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I agree. Paddles are fine, but lose the wrist straps (or use the strapless Finis paddles).

I never do kicking sets. Free, breast, back and buoy. Maybe I'll try some small paddles if my left shoulder goes along with the idea.

For a two beat kicker while swimming, is learning to flutter kick a priority at all over other things that need improving?

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.