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Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Kevin McCoy] [ In reply to ]
 
Bingo! BTW, that was about 12 min./mile pace. Just imagine that impact at 7:30 min./mile pace ;-)

Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Sparks] [ In reply to ]
 
Sparks wrote:
Richard Izzo wrote:
Like I replied to Paul, I race like all of you here and have been in the middle of inadvertent (and sometimes purposeful swim contact) which unfortunately happens from time to time but there is never an excuse for punching someone in the face for ANY reason, and at our race which focuses on safety and an uplifting experience it will never be tolerated.
To the credit of the athlete in question he did handed back his awards without any issues.

Richard Izzo TOUGHMAN Race Director, TOUGHKids Triathlon Series


When you say "punch", do you mean a closed fist punch? That's what I think of when I hear punch. And he actually punched her in the face? With a running start? Wow. It's surprising she wasn't seriously injured.

Not really surprised, he probably don't have a lot to leverage into the punch while running. As to whether it it was a punch or slap, I seem to remember a video clip from back in the day where a reporter called a wrestler for the "sport" being fake. Seem to recall the wrestler slapping the reporter a few times. Hard. As in reporter was more than a little surprised and shocked as to what was happening to him. So I guess what I'm saying is that it shouldn't really matter whether it was "a closed fist punch" or not.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
 
Fred D wrote:
kblahetka wrote:
AJHull wrote:
It's Sunday - race day. Can someone else punch a women or small child in the finishers shoot today please? This thread is getting old. New material needed.


I will grab a strangers baby and use it wipe the sweat from me. Everybody knows babies wick moisture.
. Awesomeness!


got that wrong...babies exude moisture and wick money .
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
devashish_paul wrote:
OK, Richard just sent me the video and asked me to post it so as the end the debates (or perhaps it will increase things). The problem is that i don't have a youtube account so if one of you guys who I personally know (as in, we met in person) sends me an email, I'll forward it to you to post on behalf of Richard.

I have my interpretation of what I see. I do see her randomly walking backwards into the field of play which as I articulated above, felt that her action sets up the entire incident. The video corroborates that (in my opinion). I do see him actively lift up his right arm to push/shove her out of his path so that he does not go into the oncoming lane. I can't tell if it is punch. It very well may be. What I see is that he "COULD" have swerved to his right to avoid her entirely, but stayed on his path towards the finish line.

Paul, from what I've seen during my race experiences, I'd argue that it would be pretty well expected -- in fact the norm -- that the chick, when hearing her fan club cheer her on, would beeline to the fan club and hug, smile, pose, walk a few steps backward, etc. Heck, this chick evidently stayed in her lane the whole time. Major props to her.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
Again just so that we all understand when you see the video, she is in the correct lane of outgoing traffic while he is across the double yellow line (running in the wrong direction).
If he stayed on the correct side of the run course there would never have been a collision. The finish line was about 20-30yrds further down the rd- so he was not IN the finishline, nor even close to finishing. He chose to take a line that was closest to the rt turn he was eventually going to make.

The bruise on her face (which I saw post race), the account of numerous witness', the photo, the video and the opinion of the head USAT official led to his DQ which we stand by.

I know that we have all grown to accept the "folklore" of a triathlon swim and the rough housing that goes on. But civility and sportsmanship are the things that we as RDs want our grass roots events to inspire.
Both Dev and I as well a lot of you have raced for >24 yrs and can remember when this never occurred or was tolerated.
And because it was not tolerated it did not happen.

Our focus is to provide that grass roots feel, family oriented experience but to make sure that all racers are safe and get the same challenge and accomplishment as the pros do. I thank Dev for recognizing the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes to make sure any race can go on, especially a long course one.

We do not do it for money but for the love of the sport.
So we will not tolerate unsportsmanlike behavior when it goes against the very foundation of what we stand for.

Every racer counts.

See all of you in IN, NY and our newest race in AZ!!! soon to be announced :)

Rich

http://www.TOUGHMANTri.com
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [JHand850] [ In reply to ]
 
I don't have an issue with people walking over to their family or fan club as long as they pay attention to the racing going on . She appears to have crossed into the "finishing lane" to meet her fan club and is now walking backwards across it back to the outbound lane. So she appears to be in the finishing lane when she's not even supposed to be there (yet). And even that is excusable, but walking backwards across traffic oblivious to other racers is the part that I think is not acceptable. What the guy did is not acceptable either. If one of you guys who I know sends me an email and you can post on youtube it would be helpful. Richard has done the right thing by having the guy DQ'd...it is irrelevant if it is punch, shove, push or nudge (and frankly it is hard to tell). No reason for initiating body contact, when you can choose to swerve around. You guys will see that in the video when it goes up.
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Sep 22, 13 13:10
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Richard Izzo] [ In reply to ]
 
Richard Izzo wrote:
Again just so that we all understand when you see the video, she is in the correct lane of outgoing traffic while he is across the double yellow line (running in the wrong direction).
If he stayed on the correct side of the run course there would never have been a collision. The finish line was about 20-30yrds further down the rd- so he was not IN the finishline, nor even close to finishing. He chose to take a line that was closest to the rt turn he was eventually going to make.

The bruise on her face (which I saw post race), the account of numerous witness', the photo, the video and the opinion of the head USAT official led to his DQ which we stand by.

I know that we have all grown to accept the "folklore" of a triathlon swim and the rough housing that goes on. But civility and sportsmanship are the things that we as RDs want our grass roots events to inspire.
Both Dev and I as well a lot of you have raced for >24 yrs and can remember when this never occurred or was tolerated.
And because it was not tolerated it did not happen.

Our focus is to provide that grass roots feel, family oriented experience but to make sure that all racers are safe and get the same challenge and accomplishment as the pros do. I thank Dev for recognizing the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes to make sure any race can go on, especially a long course one.

We do not do it for money but for the love of the sport.
So we will not tolerate unsportsmanlike behavior when it goes against the very foundation of what we stand for.

Every racer counts.

See all of you in IN, NY and our newest race in AZ!!! soon to be announced :)

Rich

Nice way to handle it, Rich. Thanks for being transparent and upstanding. Appreciated.



------------------

- I do all my own stunts
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
OK, I stand corrected. Richard clarified what went on. I thought it was the inverse (I thought he is in the correct lane, she in the wrong one). Richard, what side of the road are they supposed to be on...the side cars drive on, or the other?

I agree, we want all races to be favourable experience for all athletes....and being a race director is a low ROI time investment for sure and you are only doing it for the love of sport and to bring people into it, not turn them away.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Richard Izzo] [ In reply to ]
 
Richard

Thanks for clarifying the run route at that point on the course, for me it clears some things up as obviously the drawing on LetsRun is not accurate. I've read about this on some other forums, although not all of the threads, and have not read before of any marks or bruises on her face. That was new information and for me makes it much worse then the back of the shoulder. It kind of makes it more personal and egregious for me if he could see her face when he ran into her while he was on the wrong part of the course.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
Dev,

Are you still working on posting the video?

Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
 
The correct run course is LEFT directly OUT of T2 (into what would be the incoming car lane) with Finishers using the RT lane coming IN (what would be outgoing car lane).
Past T2 the run course makes a 90 degree RT turn into the finishline chute and goes another 100yrds.

This is designed so that there will be no Run/Run crossover. I think the reason for the confusion is that post collision she actually runs onto the wrong side of the rd. (which our volunteers corrected once they saw this)

Rich

http://www.TOUGHMANTri.com
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [meuf] [ In reply to ]
 
meuf wrote:
oceanlife wrote:
meuf wrote:
well I now have direct relevant experience that supports my view that this guy is a jackass.
Today I ran the 5th Avenue Mile
In the finish shoot, 20 feet from finish, I am sprinting, 5:50 pace per my garmin, and a guy to my right slightly ahead WITH NO WARNING bends down and stops directly in front of me to pick up a hat.
I managed to avoid him (losing a few seconds on the PR I was aiming for)

I did talk to him after and he apologized.

No reason to hit someone, or shove them


Congratulations? You managed to run a 1 mile race at a mediocre pace. How exactly is that relevant to a guy redlining at the end of a 4+ hour race?

regardless of your irrelevant opinion of my pace, I was redlining. I still managed to avoid another human being

apparently oceanlife is an acronym for bottom feeder

Now what would your direct relevant experience tell you if that guy had suddenly backed into you in the direction you were trying to swerve at the last minute?.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Richard Izzo] [ In reply to ]
 
Rich

Was she assessed any sort of penalty? (not stirring the pot here, objectively speaking, i just cant imagine she doesnt hold any blame because she clearly wasnt paying attention to what she was doing thereby potentially impeding other racers progress and creating a potentially unsafe situation)

Thanks
 
Post deleted by Richard Izzo [ In reply to ]
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [bingobong] [ In reply to ]
 
bingobong wrote:
meuf wrote:
oceanlife wrote:
meuf wrote:
well I now have direct relevant experience that supports my view that this guy is a jackass.
Today I ran the 5th Avenue Mile
In the finish shoot, 20 feet from finish, I am sprinting, 5:50 pace per my garmin, and a guy to my right slightly ahead WITH NO WARNING bends down and stops directly in front of me to pick up a hat.
I managed to avoid him (losing a few seconds on the PR I was aiming for)

I did talk to him after and he apologized.

No reason to hit someone, or shove them


Congratulations? You managed to run a 1 mile race at a mediocre pace. How exactly is that relevant to a guy redlining at the end of a 4+ hour race?


regardless of your irrelevant opinion of my pace, I was redlining. I still managed to avoid another human being

apparently oceanlife is an acronym for bottom feeder


Now what would your direct relevant experience tell you if that guy had suddenly backed into you in the direction you were trying to swerve at the last minute?.



he did. I avoided him
that is the point. slowed me down a few seconds
no hitting, no collision, he was oblivious until I talked to him post race.


Now we also have the RD reaffirming that the woman was on the correct side and the runner in question was on the wrong side of the course - he not only was in the wrong place, he poorly assessed the course conditions, did not correct and instead PUNCHED someone
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [meuf] [ In reply to ]
 
meuf wrote:
oceanlife pwned

pwned? like how you pwned that mile run?
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Rick in the D] [ In reply to ]
 
And for an AG-er, I find it incredible that he didn't stop. And find it even more incredible that the self-absorbed, race-fevered, PR-focused folks on this thread aren't more outraged, regardless of what happened to cause it, that he didn't stop. That's inexcusable.


And what is just as bad is the people here who defended him and continue to won't understand. The obsession with a PR at the expense of common decency is shameful.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [oceanlife] [ In reply to ]
 
oceanlife wrote:
meuf wrote:
oceanlife pwned


pwned? like how you pwned that mile run?


I am over 50, a woman, and started running 4 years ago so I am quite fine with my run yes.
this thread was not about athletic prowess - from your attitude I assume you are the overall winner every time you race? it is about doing the right thing which clearly you have no clue how to do

and even if you were the overall winner in every race you do it does not give you an excuse to be an ass. you continue to exude the self absorbed, obsessed obnoxiousness that turn many away from this sport.
Last edited by: meuf: Sep 22, 13 15:58
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Nick Mallett] [ In reply to ]
 
Nick Mallett wrote:
The interesting thing for me will be just how many of the people who spent so much effort in making up scenarios to defend this assholes actions will actually come back and admit they were wrong.This woman ,as silly as her actions may have been,was assaulted on course by a guy who didn't give a damn about what he did and who he hurt to get to that finish line.That is inexcusable behavior in any civil society but yet here on ST many people CHOSE to turn the whole thing around to defend him and dump on the victim.Why am I not surprised ST,why am I not surprised?


----

Probably about as many as the number of you guys who viciously condemned the guy because of your lemming-like belief in a biased blog and a photo. i.e., not definitive evidence.

I railed against such vicious condemnation and I still do. Nothing about his guilt or innocence changes the ridiculous witchhunt which has ensued due to the horrendous blogger and that woman's cringe-worthy actions post-incident.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Rick in the D] [ In reply to ]
 
Rick in the D wrote:
Not replying to Nick specifically...

But we just learned a few things, now didn't we?
- Blair was on the wrong side of the road.
- Blair punched someone. Punched.
- Blair didn't appeal the DQ. And sent his medal back.
- The Letsrun diagram was wrong.
- Oceanlife and Needmoreair are similar douches as Blair.
- 'Being Blaired' is the gloss for getting a forearm shiver or punch from some a-hole trying to AG PR. Age Group PR. Consider that.

And things we knew:
- Blair didn't slow down
- Blair didn't stop to see if she was OK.
- She was backing up. And doing something that wasn't ok. But not on the wrong side of the road (see Letsrun diagram, even though it's not accurate, in her favor).

I won't get into Chivalry, as it's not pertinent. The bedrock in the argument is 1) it's every racer's responsibility to be safe. At first, I thought it was evenly split (him sprinting, her backing up). Now that we know he was on the wrong side of the road, it's his fault. And don't give me the 'tunnel vision' argument. Tunnel vision places every other racer, volunteer, and himself at risk. That's worse. 2) When you see someone not in the right place, slow down. I ran today in Switzerland, where motorcycles and cars zip out all over the place, plus plenty of pedestrian traffic. When you see something that looks funny, slow down, assess options, and err on the side of not punching someone; 3) if you do run into someone (sometimes it happens), stop, and ask / help. It's a human thing.

And for an AG-er, I find it incredible that he didn't stop. And find it even more incredible that the self-absorbed, race-fevered, PR-focused folks on this thread aren't more outraged, regardless of what happened to cause it, that he didn't stop. That's inexcusable.

I just learned a lot about how the culture of triathlon, PR's, power, measurement really manifest itself in people, humans. Not sure I saw that before for what it is.


could not agree more
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Rick in the D] [ In reply to ]
 
Rick in the D wrote:
- Oceanlife and Needmoreair are similar douches as Blair.

I encourage you to pick apart everything I've written and then support your above assertion with said writings. Then we'll get back to your name-calling.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [meuf] [ In reply to ]
 
meuf wrote:


could not agree more

Being called names by people who can't think for themselves and buy into whatever flavorful story is making the rounds that day is really not that bad.

As I said early on, I'll take critical thinking over chivalry any day. Not much critical thinking by some posters.

Thanks for the continued examples.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [oceanlife] [ In reply to ]
 
If the boost in an AGers self esteem from gaining a PR exceeds the shame one should feel when punching fellow competitor to gain that PR, said person should not be competing in this sport.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [meuf] [ In reply to ]
 
meuf wrote:
oceanlife wrote:
meuf wrote:
oceanlife pwned


pwned? like how you pwned that mile run?


I am over 50, a woman, and started running 4 years ago so I am quite fine with my run yes.
this thread was not about athletic prowess - from your attitude I assume you are the overall winner every time you race? it is about doing the right thing which clearly you have no clue how to do

and even if you were the overall winner in every race you do it does not give you an excuse to be an ass. you continue to exude the self absorbed, obsessed obnoxiousness that turn many away from this sport.

If you can't handle a blunt comment I suggest you go to BT. You'll get plenty of hugs. After all, I wasn't the one name calling.
 
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Burnt Toast] [ In reply to ]
 
Burnt Toast wrote:

I don't really care if this guy got DQ'd or punished for "ünsportsmanlike conduct". I'm not defending his actions, I just find it interesting he's being accused of punching her when what little evidence the public has can be skewed by emotion and self righteousness. Punching her doesn't sound reasonable, putting your hand up to protect yourself from a collision (regardless if you are initiating the contact or reaction to it) does sound reasonable. IF you did put up your arm, its also reasonable that it could be moved backwards after the impact and look similar to the photo without a punching motion.

Saying he punched her could easily damage his reputation outside of any website, blog or chat room and have real world consequences to his life, family and business. I think its a bad move to accuse him of doing that at this point, especially from the RD.

MTA: You are demonizing and destroying his character with a clear and cold mindset, but for some reason you fail to see that also.[/quote]


Excellent post.

Now sit back and wait to be called "douche" by some of our more creative posters.
 

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