bitch need to get out da way...............
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Re: Punching a woman during a race? [NAB777]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [needmoreair]
[ In reply to ]
needmoreair wrote:
andreasjs wrote:
No way I can tell from that picture but to me there is no way he is to blame by default. The starting point is that Wonder Woman is in the freaking wrong place and doing things she should not and until further evidence has been presented she is to me more guilty than the guy
Excellent post.
This thread has taken a turn for the better over the last few pages.
But, going on 22,000 page views, we still haven't heard from the players and we still don't have that video.
I ran a 10k on Long Island yesterday. As I exited the finish, people started handing me flyers for other races and there were several more under my wiper blade. I went through them all, to see which ones allowed strollers on the course and put them in the recycling first.
Last edited by:
Nasrettin Hoca: Sep 22, 13 5:11
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [needmoreair]
[ In reply to ]
needmoreair wrote:
andreasjs wrote:
No way I can tell from that picture but to me there is no way he is to blame by default. The starting point is that Wonder Woman is in the freaking wrong place and doing things she should not and until further evidence has been presented she is to me more guilty than the guy
Excellent post.
This thread has taken a turn for the better over the last few pages.
x3
Now, whether the guy is guilty or not of unreasonably contact, we need video or a USAT official onsite. I don't believe that the race organizers can even DQ an athlete at a USAT race, it should be the official. Richard Izzo, can you corroborate?
What I find ironic about this entire discussion is when I talk about civility in mass swim starts and actively work with WTC to try to make them more civil and safe, I get people saying, "contact, punching, pushing" is all "part of the sport". Last time I checked, it should not be part of the swim or part of the run (and certainly not part of the bike), but if someone backs right into the path of a racer, literally perpendicular to his line, then it appears she is the one impeding his progress and actually the one initiating the contact with him.
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [devashish_paul]
[ In reply to ]
The most astounding thing about this whole story is that ST has apparently given a hall pass to the lady running across the finish line with her two kids and 6 friends! She finished the day with what is normally considered here to be the biggest cardinal sin of all :)
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [mv2005]
[ In reply to ]
mv2005 wrote:
The most astounding thing about this whole story is that ST has apparently given a hall pass to the lady running across the finish line with her two kids and 6 friends! She finished the day with what is normally considered here to be the biggest cardinal sin of all :)Hey let's get the numbers right;) Quoted here directly from her blog.
"My favorite moment of the day was perhaps one of the greatest moments of my life.
As I ran towards the finish line, I saw 10 children waiting for me. They included my three kids and the children of my closest friends. As I approached them, I started to sob as I saw them holding up posters, cheering and jumping for joy. They turned and ran the last tenth of a mile with me, elated, feeling the energy of the crowd and they were (as many of them told me later) formulating their own dreams for running in a race one day. I could not have dreamed of a better way to complete my experience."
Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [AJHull]
[ In reply to ]
AJHull wrote:
I would think if he was off balance, he would either be looking down to see where he might be falling or looking towards what caused him to become off balance. Instead he is looking forward towards the finish line. Still pictures do not always do justice to the actual situation but this one looks pure bad.Or option C, he's looking towards the runners that are coming towards him in the opposite direction, that others have claimed were present. Because ultimately that is the biggest hazard to anyone off balance. Looking at the ground is the next option but only if one is falling. Looking back comes in last, and only if there really was no balance issue.
To me his left hand looks extended outwards, which is what I would think would occur if you were moving to that side somewhat off balance.
I'm on the team for not crucifying based on a photo. I don't know what actions the lady was taking, but if I had someone who was prancing for photos and then backed into me at full flight and we collided, I wouldn't be looking back to say sorry. I'd be cursing their stupidity for nearly causing me injury. On the flip side if she had been standing still and he was trying to make a point then that's another story.
There is nowhere near enough evidence here to make a call one way or the other.
PS - This is the 21st century when gender equality is all the rage. Which is it to be?
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [sciguy]
[ In reply to ]
There must be rabbits in those genes. I could have sworn those numbers swelled since I read the link.
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [mv2005]
[ In reply to ]
Over 270 posts of judging without all the facts. Pretty impressive slowtwitch!
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [racin_rusty]
[ In reply to ]
racin_rusty wrote:
Over 270 posts of judging without all the facts. Pretty impressive slowtwitch!Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [racin_rusty]
[ In reply to ]
racin_rusty wrote:
Over 270 posts of judging without all the facts. Pretty impressive slowtwitch!-----
I know, there are enough fictional scenarios in this thread to keep Jessica Fletcher busy solving crimes in Cabot Cove for another two seasons.
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Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Nick Mallett]
[ In reply to ]
racin_rusty wrote:
Over 270 posts of judging without all the facts. Pretty impressive slowtwitch!The RD, USAT, an official, and admin. Someone has to be an ST regular with access to that video. Unless the lady is going to use it as evidence for a suit, there's no reason to not have this publicly available.
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [oceanlife]
[ In reply to ]
oceanlife wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
Over 270 posts of judging without all the facts. Pretty impressive slowtwitch!The RD, USAT, an official, and admin. Someone has to be an ST regular with access to that video. Unless the lady is going to use it as evidence for a suit, there's no reason to not have this publicly available.
Unless it doesn't support the initial scenario she propogated. She will look worse than him if all he did was try to miss her and didn't actually punch her intentionally.
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [oceanlife]
[ In reply to ]
It's Sunday - race day. Can someone else punch a women or small child in the finishers shoot today please? This thread is getting old. New material needed.
________________
Adrian in Vancouver
________________
Adrian in Vancouver
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Sanuk]
[ In reply to ]
Sanuk wrote:
I think I'll make a sweeping generalization if I want to based on my experiences and I'll share that wherever I deem it pertinent. I'm not really sure how your personal opinions on Thailand are pertinent to this thread but you are entitled to your opinion.
That's funny, because based on the evidence presented (or lack thereof) I don't know how a guy punching a woman is pertinent to this thread too, but there seems to be plenty of opinions about that.
Now where is that video?.
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [AJHull]
[ In reply to ]
AJHull wrote:
It's Sunday - race day. Can someone else punch a women or small child in the finishers shoot today please? This thread is getting old. New material needed.Sorry, all I have is a 90 minute z2 run, I'll do my darnedest to find a poodle, baby or an old lady to bowl over during a photography session but I don't like my chances, I'll be running back roads for all but 1km. Would killing bambi work? Might try that this evening...
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [AJHull]
[ In reply to ]
AJHull wrote:
It's Sunday - race day. Can someone else punch a women or small child in the finishers shoot today please? This thread is getting old. New material needed.I will grab a strangers baby and use it wipe the sweat from me. Everybody knows babies wick moisture.
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [kblahetka]
[ In reply to ]
kblahetka wrote:
AJHull wrote:
It's Sunday - race day. Can someone else punch a women or small child in the finishers shoot today please? This thread is getting old. New material needed.I will grab a strangers baby and use it wipe the sweat from me. Everybody knows babies wick moisture.
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [AJHull]
[ In reply to ]
well I now have direct relevant experience that supports my view that this guy is a jackass.
Today I ran the 5th Avenue Mile
In the finish shoot, 20 feet from finish, I am sprinting, 5:50 pace per my garmin, and a guy to my right slightly ahead WITH NO WARNING bends down and stops directly in front of me to pick up a hat.
I managed to avoid him (losing a few seconds on the PR I was aiming for)
I did talk to him after and he apologized.
No reason to hit someone, or shove them
Today I ran the 5th Avenue Mile
In the finish shoot, 20 feet from finish, I am sprinting, 5:50 pace per my garmin, and a guy to my right slightly ahead WITH NO WARNING bends down and stops directly in front of me to pick up a hat.
I managed to avoid him (losing a few seconds on the PR I was aiming for)
I did talk to him after and he apologized.
No reason to hit someone, or shove them
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [meuf]
[ In reply to ]
I ran that race as well.Semi strong crosswind. I made a point to NOT wear a hat. Looks like a good call.
Last edited by:
Nasrettin Hoca: Sep 22, 13 9:39
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [kblahetka]
[ In reply to ]
kblahetka wrote:
AJHull wrote:
It's Sunday - race day. Can someone else punch a women or small child in the finishers shoot today please? This thread is getting old. New material needed.I will grab a strangers baby and use it wipe the sweat from me. Everybody knows babies wick moisture.
If you could also punch the baby before you toss it aside ... That would be great ...
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [meuf]
[ In reply to ]
meuf wrote:
well I now have direct relevant experience that supports my view that this guy is a jackass. Today I ran the 5th Avenue Mile
In the finish shoot, 20 feet from finish, I am sprinting, 5:50 pace per my garmin, and a guy to my right slightly ahead WITH NO WARNING bends down and stops directly in front of me to pick up a hat.
I managed to avoid him (losing a few seconds on the PR I was aiming for)
I did talk to him after and he apologized.
No reason to hit someone, or shove them
Congratulations? You managed to run a 1 mile race at a mediocre pace. How exactly is that relevant to a guy redlining at the end of a 4+ hour race?
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [Nasrettin Hoca]
[ In reply to ]
Nasrettin Hoca wrote:
I ran that race as well.Semi strong crosswind. I made a point to NOT wear a hat. Looks like a good call.this was not this guys' hat!!!
it was already on the ground!
I did wear one and it stayed on my head just fine.
I let the guy know that I barely avoided plowing into him, stopping in the finish shoot and blocking someone a bad idea, and that I was aiming for a PR and getting training numbers - I think he got it.
Mixed group of serious and just participating - as usual at NYRR
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [oceanlife]
[ In reply to ]
oceanlife wrote:
meuf wrote:
well I now have direct relevant experience that supports my view that this guy is a jackass. Today I ran the 5th Avenue Mile
In the finish shoot, 20 feet from finish, I am sprinting, 5:50 pace per my garmin, and a guy to my right slightly ahead WITH NO WARNING bends down and stops directly in front of me to pick up a hat.
I managed to avoid him (losing a few seconds on the PR I was aiming for)
I did talk to him after and he apologized.
No reason to hit someone, or shove them
Congratulations? You managed to run a 1 mile race at a mediocre pace. How exactly is that relevant to a guy redlining at the end of a 4+ hour race?
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How do you know the guy was redlining? How do you know meuf wasn't redlining?What has the length of the event got to do with being a decent human?
I am beginning to think that peoples differing opinions are a direct reflection of what they deem acceptable and what they would have done in the same situation...Quite interesting actually.
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Nick Mallett: Sep 22, 13 9:54
Re: Punching a woman during a race? [oceanlife]
[ In reply to ]
oceanlife wrote:
meuf wrote:
well I now have direct relevant experience that supports my view that this guy is a jackass. Today I ran the 5th Avenue Mile
In the finish shoot, 20 feet from finish, I am sprinting, 5:50 pace per my garmin, and a guy to my right slightly ahead WITH NO WARNING bends down and stops directly in front of me to pick up a hat.
I managed to avoid him (losing a few seconds on the PR I was aiming for)
I did talk to him after and he apologized.
No reason to hit someone, or shove them
Congratulations? You managed to run a 1 mile race at a mediocre pace. How exactly is that relevant to a guy redlining at the end of a 4+ hour race?
regardless of your irrelevant opinion of my pace, I was redlining. I still managed to avoid another human being
apparently oceanlife is an acronym for bottom feeder
Nick Mallett wrote:
MegRuns wrote:
needmoreair wrote:
motoguy128 wrote:
I still have only see visual evidence of a collision, not a "punch" or someone actively "hitting" another person. I'm seeing poor judgement by 2 individuals. One clearly very fatigued at the end of the race and another not paying much attention after a long but relatively leisurely swim and ride based on her descriptions. How's that for a summary?
So we're saying here that he should have somehow came to a stop, jumped over her, swerved into... potentially... on coming runner on the other side of the roadway, or . I'm not saying this dude is a really nice guy, but he was thrown into a very bad situation that he didn't create and made some attempt to avoid by moving all the way across the lane.
Until there's a video, not much else can be concluded.
Nobody thinks this guy had a right be be a little upset that he was disqualified because another competitor stepped in front of him and blocked his way?
Sounds like a good summary of the event.
Doesn't take into account the blog and the woman's account later on, which I think is the real issue and the driving force behind this entire episode.
This guy should 100% be upset he was DQed. If nothing else, he should push for her DQ as well. She should be upset for getting knocked down if she wants. That's never fun either.
Until there's definitive proof of malice, I 100% believe this incident should have never left the course. No DQs for the man, no DQs for the woman. Next time don't walk backwards onto race courses.
In the event there is definitive proof of malice, then let the governing bodies have their way. But no one who has seen nothing but a picture and bought into some rhetoric can say with any conviction whatsoever that malice did take place. Such an assumption is merely the result of blindly buying into some viral "marketing". And as I keep repeating, THAT is the real issue.
YES, THIS^ ... a reasonable opinion!
I'm a female runner (yes, a visitor from the dreaded Letsrun.com) so, I realize that I'm an outsider to triathlon and to this forum, but having skimmed through both this thread and the one on Letsrun.com, I'm honestly kind of surprised at the amount of vitriol on this forum directed towards the guy in this incident.
Yes, I can agree that in the grand scheme of things, it probably wouldn't have killed the guy to slow down drastically or do whatever he had to do to completely avoid this woman - but, really, are this many of you so "relaxed" about racing that if it were your PR on the line, you wouldn't have made a similar decision/error in that moment?Why is there so much sympathy for a woman who is 1) chatting with spectators during a race(!) the clock is ticking, isn't it??? 2) obliviously in someone's way who is actually racing, ie. cares about finish time/place 3) cries about being knocked down.
Do we really live in a world now where it is "narcissistic" to participate in athletic endeavors and care a lot about your performance? What happened to dedication, passion and hard work to push your limits, regardless of your level of talent? Do we not respect "giving a crap" anymore? I think it's sort of douchey to imply that because he was only going 7:30 pace, this somehow makes it "less okay" for him to care about his results. Conversely, if he had been the overall race winner, it wouldn't have made the fact that he ran into the woman any better or worse. He's just some guy (slower than some of you, faster than others) who really really wanted to do well in this race, and made a somewhat poor decision as a result. It's not as if the guy was doing EPO... evidence for the fact that he intentionally hurt this woman is circumstantial, AT BEST.
I sort of wonder if people's reactions to this incident reflect the fact that we are becoming, not the "slowest" generation (per WSJ article), but just the weakest generation. There's the prevailing mindset now that people participate in races to feel good about themselves, that we can only be bothered to complete marathons if it's "for cancer" or "to be inspiring". Hey, if you get tired, take a walking break, it's cool! How dare bad things happen, like collisions, falls or bike crashes. Those things happen all of the time to elites and sub-elites, and even though those people may depend on the sport for their well-being, they actually do NOT cry and freak out and assess blame. They get up and finish the race, why can't we do the same?
The world is a tough place. For people who think that getting knocked down (in a race where you clearly didn't care all that much about your finish time, and in an incident that was partially your own fault) is SUCH a moral outrage, how do you make it through the day???
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So you think it is okay to just push people out of the way or knock them down during races? Aren't you a special kind of bitch!
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Nick Mallett, you may not like my opinion, but I didn't say that it was "okay". I said that I didn't think that there was sufficient evidence for the fact that he maliciously or intentionally shoved her out of the way, and given that, it just didn't seem like such a tremendous outrage to me. Do you really think this guy thought to himself "Heyyy, should I rudely shove this woman out of my way and knock her down? Or should I go around?" This doesn't even make any sense! If he is so PB obsessed, then deliberately shoving someone en route is not the logical choice to make. The loss of balance and momentum that would occur is probably worse for his finish time than going slightly around. Unless there is significant evidence to the contrary, he probably just miscalculated how much of a berth he had to give her, given her erratic movement backwards. It is unfortunate that this occurred, and yes, he is partially to blame. So, some people are rude and time-obsessed. Just as others are rude and completely unaware of their surroundings.
All I'm saying is that, come on, if you want to participate in sports, it may help to grow a thicker skin. So you got knocked down in a race and you think its the other person's fault. That sucks, but get up, buck up and move on (vs. cry and write a self righteous blog post about it). Run a PR. Maybe it will toughen you up a little! If that makes me a bitch, fine - duly noted, thanks.