...only if it is a relay

a bit the same as with 10km run; i bet sprinetrs speed would help at the end of the race; but by then sprinters are already after shower eating their lunch

Sounds logical, but at what cost, for what gains. At the start of a mass start 10k sprinting might logically seem to help, Would you incorporate sprint traing? In a mass start swim, that may help for the first 30 seconds to one minute, but what does that matter if yoy are swimming 35+ or a half? Seeding yourself properly would help more than a sprint. If you are sprinting to get out in front, and have the ability to stay out in front, then this is a moot point

Still not a argument for or against, but a 10K runner would incorporate sprint training. Plus sprint training would still be run training and not weight training. But back to swimming.


Not for a Oly or a Half or long distance swim, but for mass start sprint distance tri swims, wouldn't the ability to be able to surge at given moments be an asset? Yes, in an ideal world, everyone seeds themselves in the right way. But every race I have been at starts with some fast people out front, as well as many fast but uncontrollable swimmers and even slow swimmers that you need to swerve around, fight off or who frankly just suck and fade in seconds. Our local races only have 60 -100 people entered, so they aren't seeded in any special way. The closest we have is men versus women.

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Ian

Actually you are wrong. Yep, you're that guy...

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The Triathlon Squad

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Yes so weight train and practice sprinting
..You may need the speed when swimming 2minutes per hundred to get by the 2:10 per hundred guys. So weight train.

Seriously dude, chill. I was just asking a question. I am sorry. I will refrain from making you slum it with idiots in the future.

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Ian

Dude, I am an idiot to.......There are scenerios for everything., I don;t know. It is good being able to sprint hard (anaerobic) at times. Was it really a question? For a sprint, well its a sprint..Why would you not be going all out in the first place. Sorry if it came out wrong. My apologies. ....................My whole point in the thread is weights will not make you faster if you ar an avg triathlete swimmer. The time would be better spent in the pool than weight room. Some disagree. Fine...Sorry again

Fair enough. Just covering bases as the OP never really indicated what scenarios he was looking at and ST seems to automatically assume everyone does IM's it seems. some of us stick to sprints, and while I would love to say that I could go all out from start to finish, well I suck at starts. While more swimming is definitely something I will be doing to get better, those of us late to swimming in life sometimes just can't deal with the all out insanity of a sprint (or any) start and have to play a lot of catch up in the water.


I personally don't do a lot of strength training. I do yoga though and manage to fit it into my training schedule without affecting the rest of things too much. Again, though, I training for sprints and duathlons for the most part. I just wanted to make sure this thread actually covered as much as possible (other than the bickering) so that when people yell to use the search function, something decent comes up.

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Ian

Thanks for your courtesy. My personal beliefs. Even if just doing sprints, I believe time in the pool trumps weight as far as speed. Injury prevention is anothere topic. Most triathletes (myself included) suck compare an average swim team swimmer. Then as far as time spent, diminshing returns becomes a consideration..............As mentioned by others, once fast enough where your limiter is strength not endurance, then you should look to other stuff. Have a great weekend

I think this posts makes a huge amount of sense:David in NY

Oct 20, 11 12:22

Post #88 of 159 (486 views)
Re: Pull-ups - do anything at all for swimming? [klehner] [In reply to] Quote | Reply

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For what it's worth, I was a former swimmer (U.S. Olympic trials '88, 100m and 200m backstroke). I did a little masters swimming in the 90s and then in 2003 took up triathlon. Somewhere along the line, I lost my "swimming strength". Sure I can coast along and do :53s and :54s in an IM, but I should be faster and I feel strength limited especially in shorter triathlon events. Maybe it's age, maybe it's a new focus on biking and running where upper body strength is a detraction. But, in any event, this fall I have decided to rebuild my swimming strength and pull ups and lat pull downs are a big part of it.

So for me, who already has a good stroke and has done quite a few miles in his day, my expectation is that strength training will make a difference for me. ......Look at when He feels strength limited. at IM times of 53, or holding for 53 minutes a 1:15 per hundred pace. So my guess he feels strength limited in a sprint avg a 1:05 (?) per hundred pace. How many people on this board are there yet?

absolutely....pair them with dips and you will find that the finish of your stroke will be more balanced!

Are you doing an ITU race as a professional? Why are you sprinting the first 100 meters? I still do not get this logic.

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John Kenny, Pro Triathlete, USAT Certified Coach - http://www.frenchcreekracing.com
Philly Masters and Open Water
Swim and Multisport Events

To add an additional hour of swimming per week is going to take about two hours when you count drive time to and from the pool, changing, showering, etc. But you can do a quick dry land routine in 20 minutes at home. Is it better than swimming? No. Will it help your swimming? Maybe.

Or with that 20 minutes, you can spin on the trainer, or go for a quick run. Seems better to replace a "maybe" with something more definite.

Also, an additional one hour a week swimming doesn't necessarily mean an extra trip to the pool.

Wow I thought we beat this to death. Thanks for bringing it back up. Did you bother to read the rest of the responses? And yes, I am the best ITU racer in the world. I come here for training tips.

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Ian

Macca is coming for you!! HE wants to be the best!!

Macca will pull out on the bike with a bad cramp. My pull ups will protect me. Plus I have my teammates do pull ups to beat the other guys down on the swim. oops, am I British? I have said too much.

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Ian

Don't give away your gameplan!! Just smile at Macca on the startline really big. Throw something out there like "The oldtimers race is tomorrow". Use his own mental game against him. lol

what I find really funny about this thread is the inevitable arguments that you'd be better off swimming, biking, or running with that time...as if it is such a time suck to do some pull-ups.

I was routinely doing pull-ups 3-4 days a week while I was getting my kids ready for the bus. This is time that I couldn't possibly swim, bike or run. It's not like it takes very long...what...maybe 3 minutes of actual pull-up time to do 30-40 pullups? I would argue that this in no way effects my total training time. in fact, I don't even consider it "training"...it's just something I do. I can't say it actually helps me swim faster...but it helped take care of a couple issue's I was having and made me feel stronger...neither of which is a bad thing. pull-ups are a great exercise. I honestly can't believe such a simple question would stir up such a debate. amazing.

I'm 100% convinced that those who say "nay" are doing so to justify there laziness in doing strength training. Anyone wanting overall better fitness should absolutely strength train. Not to mention the injury prevention it helps with.

I find find myself wondering which is a bigger stretch...you being able to do 40 pull ups in 3 minutes or speedy not being a total douche

The real value in doing things like pull ups and push ups is not to improve race times but so that you can beat people in bar bets...everyone knows that

I totally suck at swimming, but I do pull ups. But only because I look better in my t-shirts after doing them.
If I stopped doing them - I ‘d still suck at swimming … but if I swam a lot more (with a coach) … I might not suck so bad …

 I'll be sure and pass along your sentiments to Mark Allen and let him know his coaching sucks because strength training is worthless. What does he know anyway??

Do you smart off and name call in person or only behind a computer because you can't even lift your own body weight?

I have a tendency to tell people I think are douches that theyy are douches both on line and in person. In your case, when you appeared here and started posting a bunch of lance love nonsense I thought you were a total douche. After reading about how you were wounded and now seeking to get fast, change your life, whatever, I dedided that maybe you should be given thebenefit of the doubt. Now some time later you continue to post inanne drivel and appear to be such a douche that you do not even understand why you are a douche or why your "arguments" tend to be laughable. If you were to read the stuff posted by DD or Ken in this thread alone [not to mention thousands of other posts] you might just learn something. Maybe not.

How is the getting super fast thing going? I have not seen any RR's from you? With all strength training I would think that you would be getting ultra fast and be pretty much injury proof, right?

But then maybe you are not a total douche in person and just seem that way here. Again, I would be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on that. Next time we race together I promise to wait around at the finish line and buy you a beer no matter how long it takes for you to get there. I may even do some push ups if I get bored.

I could NOT do 30-40 pullups straight...that's for sure. But...the total pull-upping time (not including the time in between sets when I'm telling the kids to get dressed, eat their breakfast, get their shoes one, etc) to do 4x10 is probably less than 3-4 minutes.

oh...and beach muscles (to a certain extent) are not a bad thing...nor is being able to compete bar bets...particularly the yoda-tossing events.

Agreed on all accounts. I think it would be awesome if push ups and pull ups helped with swimming. I can do both pretty well and, as you are well aware, can't swim for crap.