Your position looks pretty good to me. If I was going to do anything, I would scoot the saddle all the way forward, as I find a very steep seat angle really helps alleviate back pain and sciatica. If you feel a little too stretched out now, scooting the seat forward will shorten your top tube and bring it back within a more comfortable range. If you're using the QR carbon seatpost with the setback, you may want to consider a zero-setback Thomson.

I understand your reasoning. Thanks for the input.

I'm afraid of getting too far forward (it's already a bit twitchy with the 10cm stem - but maybe that's just because I barely went from an 11cm to a 10cm stem). I'm using a 0 set back seat post - the nose of my saddle is about .5" in front of the BB (~78 degrees). But since I sit a little forward of center on my seat, I guestimate that I'm at 80 degrees effective seat tube angle.

Naah. Your bike borders on the small side as it is (which is how mine fits me, but I like it that way).

You look great on that bike. If you are feeling stretched out and are getting fatigued after 3 hours, try moving the saddle another cm or so forward, while leaving the front end alone. I'm 5'11", and I finally got comfortable with the low-ish front end like you have once I got forward to the point that my knees are just missing my elbows with the pedals horizontal.

It's hard to tell your knee angle, but I would be tempted to go 1/2cm to 1cm lower on the seat height. That might help with the low back fatigue. The hamstrings can get to pulling against your low back muscles, which eventually start to fatigue. My back ache cleared right up with a small 1/2cm drop in saddle height.

But, you know...that whole "shave your head to get more aero" thing isn't popular anymore....

;-)

You need to drink a Starbuck's, put some tubulars on that thing and get an Ikea catalog.

Seriously though, I think your position looks pretty darn good.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I'm still on the fence about the size. I read Dan's fit article that's on the Cervelo site and he mentions that for proper triathlon-specific fit you should go with a top tube that's 2.5-3.0cm shorter than what you'd ride in a traditional road bike (I ride a 57.5cm TT on my road bike, so my Caliente's 55.5 TT is borderline using Dan's opinion. I've tried to offset this by using a bit shorter stem).

Thanks for the input.

Thanks, Tom. I studied your website extensively in getting myself squared-away. I truely appreciate the hard work you've put into it. I'm still trying to figure out what you're implying with the Ikea reference...

jason

You need some furniture, dude.

;-)

Bah. For what? I've got a fine place to sit right where you see me.

I have to differ with the others here, but your positon looks very low in front. I couldn't stay this low for over an hour, but then I am old, fat and inflexible.

If you have trouble staying in this position, that might be why.

That's funny - I thought he looked a bit high. I guess this is a good illustration that there is no true consensus on bike fit.

I would move that book under the front wheel forward a bit, looks like he is ready to drop off the edge and how about some artwork on the walls?

IMHO your saddle height is too high, the knee angle is too open. I think you should try shorter stems, a 8 and a 9 cm, and see how much more confortable you feel. After that is done, you should try to take one or two spacers, I think you still have them, right? Also what bars are those, Syntace? If they're adjustable lenght bars, you won't need the new stem.

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-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

He's an ectomorph. He will trend toward high IMO.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I'm in much the same boat with no good fitters anywhere near me, so this is as much for my benefit as yours - fitting experts please let me know what I get wrong.

I thought from Dan's articles that you should draw the line from the hip to the ankle and that angle should be 90. Just eyeballing it, the ankle-hip-shoulder angle looks greater than 90 indicating that you could drop the front a little lower. However, if you lower the front then your shoulder angle will increase requiring a shorter stem or moving the saddle forward.

I'm interested in the saddle too high causing lower back pain. I've been struggling with the same thing and wonder if this could be my problem, can anyone confirm that a saddle too high might cause lower back pain?

Are the lines on the picture actually at 90 degrees, or did you put them in freehand? Does anyone have a good, inexpensive program that can be used to put 90 degree angles on a picture?

Why would ectomorphs trend toward high? I figured that would be endomorphs.

I used Tom's website as my guide (he seeks to get the the upper-leg/torso angle to 90 degrees). I started out going from greater trochanter to bottom bracket, but it made my torso angle too acute. Having opened it up a bit, my back feels better (better, but not perfect, yet).

A saddle that's too high *can* cause lower back and hamstring pain (and other problems), especially if you're inflexible. I'm extremely flexible (I can put the palms of my hands flat on the ground with my knees locked), which led me to believe mine's a position problem rather than a flexibility problem.

I drew the lines in the picture based on anatomical points on my body. The goal is to get certain angles to 90 degrees. I think I'm pretty close, but again, I need some fine tuning to work out the remaining bugs.

I think the post about my front end being too low might have merit (all the riding around here is very hilly, so a more open, powerful position might be more desirable than a more aero position).

I'm particularly fond of the old-school college text book for a front wheel stand!

I'd drop the saddle a bit if I were you. I dunno if this is a problem for you, but if your arms/wrists/or shoulders hurt at all, you may want to tilt the aero extensions up a bit. Not much, just a tad. I'm sure some will rag on me for the suggestion as it might not be the most aero thing in the world to do, but I find that it can make a huge improvement in comfort. I'd rather be comfortable than just a tad more aero.

jhendric,

I like your Caliente. I am thinking of getting a QR Caliente or a Tiphoon. I think I would need a 57cm (55.5cmTT) like you ride. I am about 1 inch taller than you but am long in the legs. Do you know your inseam and torso so I can get an idea if the 57 would be close to the right size frame for me.

Thanks,

Tommy

From a roadie/time trialist perspective...Your saddle height seems very high. While your leg is almost straight, your heel is well above the pedal spindle. I like my heel to drop below the spindle with the pedal in the 6 position to enable pulling through the bottom of the stroke. I'm not a tri guy so I don't know if you guys do this on purpose or what. I do notice that many tri people ride this way. Typically when I see the high saddle, I also notice those riders hips rocking with each stroke which would be huge pressure on the lower back. Your back would be working constantly in an attempt to keep your hips over the saddle. Additionally, this will pull your crotch into the saddle which will pull you farther forward on the saddle and off the sweet spot of any saddle.

I TT on a Saber and that saddle is actually shorter to the crank center than on my road bike. This allows me to sit a bit forward and still pull through the bottom of the stroke while on a fairly steep ST angle.

There is my .02 worth and not worth anymore than that.

Hi Tommy -

I'm pretty proportional - my inseam is 33". I don't know my torso measurements, but when I was fitted a couple years ago with a Serrota Size Cycle, the fitter told me that my torso was a little longer than average, legs a little shorter than average, for my height. The 57cm Caliente/Tiphoon is made for someone 5'9" to 6', according to Tom D.'s website (www.bikesportmichigan.com). I would guess that you'd be good on a 57cm if your inseam measures an inch or two taller than mine.

It's a great bike.

Very interesting. Many people have made the same comment that you have about my seat being too high. I was riding about 5mm lower, but I was told by 2 *fitters* and numerous roadies (all of whom seem to be knowlegable) that my saddle should be a little higher. So I moved it up. I was more comfortable in the lower position, but I figured I'd listen to advice from the local fitters/riders who seem to know what they're talking about. Time to rethink that move in light of everyone's input.

What type of input were you looking for... From reading what you have posted in reply to people's comments, you disagree with all of them and give reasons why you have things set the way you do. None of my business really, just an observation.

----->Trent

I's like to see the tops of your ears below the highest point on your back. So, I think you can go lower in front...especially since you don't have a gut to lay upon. As you drop in front, you might be able to drop your seat the diameter of a frog's hair for better comfort, and, maybe more power. To get more power, though, you might have to drop two frog-hairs. As you drop that front, you may find your slightly too long stem becomes just right.

NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO.....make sure you test the position with running afterward...assuming you do triathlons. The very best position on the bike may not be suitable for your run...however, because you are rather thin, I'd say you'll probably be fine on the run at a lower front end positon than you currently have.

PS, I have no formal training in a FIST clinic or any other fitting system other than direct observation of people I've tried to help, and professionals that have helped me, so take that into consideration when reading any of this advice.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)