I opened this can of worms a few weeks ago. I received some really great advice. I've done just about every workout listed.

What did I learn? If I swim 01:05:00 and PR the race it will be better than swimming 59 minutes, and not getting the PR. It's the whole race for me, not just the swim. But that's just my opinion. Here's the URL:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...search_string;#98994

Joel

Last year at LP I was 1:01 at a very comfortable pace. I could have gone under 1 hour if I pushed it, but I had other goals.

One of my strongest workouts w/100 scy intervals was 24x100 on 1:30 (every eighth one was on 2:00) and I was hitting each one at 1:17-1:18.

Could someone please explain the scy acroynm. I haven't had time to dig back into Gordo's site to find it. Thanks.

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

short course yards

Ooh! Ooh! I can do that. Swim a short course, I mean. Unfortunately, not nearly so fast. My best currently is 20 x 200yd @ 3:30, turning the 200's in 3:08 to 3:12. I'm suspecting a 65 min swim with a wetsuit, and maybe a lit bit of a draft.

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

I did an hour at IMFL last year, and in the previous couple of months I did a long set of 20 x 200y on 2:45, another set of 30 x 100y on 1:25, thankfully on different days. I was comfortable with that, getting 6-8 seconds rest with the 100's and 10 with the 200's. My heartrate was pretty reasonable, staying aerobic, and I raced at the same heartrate too (for me it was 125bpm, which is about 15 beats below the same subjective level of effort for the run). Body position in swimming improves cardiac return, and hence output, so the lower heartrate results. (LCM was 20 x 200m @3:10, about the same rest as above) What I could hold for 10 x 100y, the best interval? I've done 1:10 during the preparation for the IM, but it was touch and go (literally and figuratively) and I was in a lane with 6 high school swimmers who would not let their coach pass them, so I had a great draft. The aerobic stuff I mentioned before seemed to help me the most. Good Luck.

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"Maybe you should just run faster..." TM

I swam the gft in 1:03: I got lost in the sun glare so I probably would have been under an hour. I did not push it since this was my first IM and I was saving for the rest of the race. I typically do 100 yd intervals around 1:20 with 20 sec rest. If I really pushed 100 yds--with a dive-- I probably could go close to 1 min. Hard to say though. I don't train to do just 100 yd anymore--so I don't just go all out on any 100.

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Jon Bergmann
http://jonbergmann.com

I guess I don't understand this. I couldn't come close to any of these splits you guys are talking about, but I turn 1:10 and change in the IM. 20 X 200 @ 4:00 would be a pretty tough workout for me. I don't think I would make it through 20. Maybe 10 on a good day.

I don't have many good days in the pool.

I'm with you Art. I do 20x200 @ 3:30 (recent 200 times are 3:08-3:12). An all out 100 for me is 1:25. But yesterday, I cruised 4225 yds in 71 minutes. Very aerobic, bilateral breathing with very consistent 1000 yd intervals at just under 17 minutes. I know from previous w/outs with my wetsuit that I save 7 seconds per 100 with the suit, which drops another 4:45 off (net ~ 66 minutes for 2.4 miles). I figure a good day drafting and I can save another 3 minutes, and I shouldn't even be breathing hard. I don't do flip turns so I don't think the pool gives many any major advantage other than reduced traffic and waves. The big caveat is I haven't done an Ironman swim. I have 60 plus other tris including 4 half-IMs, so I do have some experience in open water mass swims.

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

The wetsuit in fresh water saves me more like 15 minutes over an IM distance, and it is much easier to boot. Maybe the wetsuit is acting as an equalizer for me. It seems like you would beat me in the IM distance by more like 15 to 20 minutes, if you just look at pool times, instead of maybe 5 to 10 minutes when we both have wetsuits.

Aren't wetsuits wonderful? They help rocks like me a lot and fish like you just a little. Great equalizer. Now if I just had one for the bike and the run. Equalizer that is, not wetsuit.

i went 1:02 staying aerobic, and can do 100's @1:30 for an hour, a good masters coach took me from 1:12 IM to 1:02 in a year, masters the answer to better swim splits

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i think there, 4 am

I am a bit surprised...I thought I was the only one swimming much faster in the pool than open water with a wetsuit.
The sets that you have done suggest that you could go much faster than 1h for an IM swim.

my wife swam 64' last year and she is far from swimming these sets.

20x200yds on 2:45'' that's equivalent to roughly 1'30''/100m which gives a 57'30'' for IM.

I would agree. My swimming has improved quite a bit this year by working hard in masters groups. Previously I have recorded 1:06 and 1:07 IM swims fairly easy. By the way this is fast enough to qualify for hawaii in my age group so there isn't alot of incentive to get much faster. Also its fast enough to get you in front of the main pack of total thrashers that swim about 1:15, while furiously thrashing their arms and running into each other. My recommendation is try and get faster than a 1:10 to stay out of battle or swim slower than a 1:20, that seems to be the band that has the most anarchy in it.

I typically do a set of 6 to 8 X 100 on 1:30 during a workout, it would not be the main set but a warmup to the main set. When I recorded the IM times above I'm estimating I would have done a set of 10 100s on 1:45 in a similar part of an overall swim workout of about 3000. The interval times listed are for leaving not coming in on.

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I was, now I will tri again!
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Any time is a good time.
God Bless you my friend.

Actually my PR for the IM swim is a 55, but the hour after that swim was something I would rather avoid in the future. I am sure if I had toned it down, I would have easily made up any time later. I used to be pretty agressive in the first 500 meters or so, fighting for a draft and going a bit harder than I would like to, but I have gotten a little better at controlling my impulses. 25 years ago I was a mid 17 for the 1500m sc. I think that my turns and streamline make up alot of time, and perhaps that is why my pool times seem quick? Is that a reasonable hypothesis?

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"Maybe you should just run faster..." TM