$125 for a new unproven event?!? I'm glad someone is running a new event in Philly, but I'm afraid they may be overestimating their market at this price. For comparison, the top notch, national caliber Columbia Triathlon is $85.

I forsee a problem with the swim ... eeeew. Is it possible to test that water enough??? Instead of transition bags, they'll have puke bags.

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

no kidding - $125??!!! Call me when you get serious. Not even Escape from Fort Delaware is that high, unless Neil raised the price again.

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The bike seems to be the same as the old Fairmount Triathlon (early 80s - there was an Olympic and Half-Iron on this course). The race was part of the Penn-Jersey series and had no problems finding a full field. There were relatively few issues, if I remember correctly. Transportation to the race start (there weren't enough buses to take all the racers across the river to the Temple boat house, where the race started). The water was concerning - and it will be an issue if there is a storm 48 hours prior to the race. But all in all, it was a well run, well attended race. I wish them luck.

Agree. I'd love to do it but $125 for an olympic distance, not a chance.

Well, I haven't made up my mind one way or another about it, but I wouldn't have to pay hotel fees since I'm close enough to drive there the morning of the race. That's not true for some of the Delaware races, where I have to factor cost of a hotel room into the price of the race.

Either way, I'm glad to see the race happening and hope it's a huge success.

Seems like there's a whole corporation set up to promote this event...Guess they want to make some $$...Maybe they should make it ITU type rules with drafting...I did that race when it was the Fairmount Park Classic, and there won't be much chance of avoiding the draft if they keep the same mulit-loop course.

I'll chime in also on the fee - $125 is very steep for a first-time event. Part of me says that I would like to support a new race, but these are experienced people and I think they know they are pushing the monetary limits and why should I help them at all? There are several good 1/2 irons that are close to the cost of this race, and it will take a good, long swallow before I plunk down my $125 for a new oly. Nevertheless, 52 people have already signed up, so the demand is there, I guess.

I do hope it works for them, I really do. They say its been tested and they have the permits for the river from the city, so I guess the Schuykill is OK.

Who is the race director? Lin-Mark usually just does the timing and makes it seem if they are the race directors. So is it the Toretsky's or is it another group?

$125? That's a reason I'm getting out. NY got that and more and this year the word is a lot of popular Oly's will be going up to that also. At those prices, the race had better be perfect. I just really think we are going to price ourselves out of existance.

I'm just curious about why 52 people thought they had to sign up in October 2004 for a June 2005 first time race?

 The phillytri.com site lists "Our Team" to include Alan Morrison and Jon Reichlin, "successful local businessmen and avid traithletes", "local Ironman distance triathlete" Lars Beck, who will be the RD, and Steve Schiff of Schiff Marketing Concepts, who will be the Event Producer. They also cite an Advisory Board of area triathletes of all levels who assisted in "critiquing the course and will continue to provide valuable feedback on many race details". Finally, they state that even their attorney is an Ironman distance triathlete.

I, too, hope it works for them.....but not if it is going to add to the trend to raise race fees to the heavens. And on this note, I just noticed that Vineman 1/2 next year will cost $190 between now and Jan. 31, $200 from Feb. 1 to April 30, $210 from May 1 to July 15, and $225 from July 16 to July 30 -- even though most spots are gone by April (I think). This year's Mighty Man was $200, which was also hefty for a first-time race. Eagleman is, I believe, $185 for '05, and like Vineman 1/2 it is a qualifier. Yeah, I know that $185 is almost $200, or $210, but where does this slippery slope end?

"At those prices, the race had better be perfect. I just really think we are going to price ourselves out of existance. "

I added up what I was going to spend on Columbia, Eagleman, and Lake Placid next year. It really made me think about this sport in terms of money. I dropped out of all three races because I just can't justify the cost any more. I know I'll take a hit with partial refunds but with food, gas, hotel, and race fees, it's priced me out of the sport for a while at least. It's definitely becoming a sport for the rich.

Swimming in the Schuylkill will be nasty.

Dave from VA

<<I'm just curious about why 52 people thought they had to sign up in October 2004 for a June 2005 first time race? >>

I have a feeling it was members of their triathlete advisory board. They had a big breakfast for heads of local tri clubs and what not - I'm sure those are the people who signed up.

I was really looking forward to the race, but I can do one sprint and two olympic distance races for $25 more. I'll probably watch the race.

Matt

I actually hope this one backfires. I think $125 is an out rageous price to ask for a first time event. Also, with a possibility of runoff, one never knows what the water quality will be like. Can anyone say expensive duathlon? I do this for fun an fitness, not to see if I can spend the most money. Longspur, what was the Musselman? $55? I had a great time in Geneva last summer, I probably would have skipped it if it was $125.

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Just sent them an email with regard to the price. I'll post their response if I get one.

MC

Did everybody see the new Jersey Devil 1/2 and Sprint on May 15, 2005?

I've done a number of rowing races on the schuylkill (note I said on, not in), and I for one wouldn't want to swim in it. But, it could be a very fast swim depending on the current and the direction of the swim course. Having said that, $125 is a complete rip off for an olympic distance race. I can see a half being that much and a bit more...but an olympic distance race...no way. That's a great way to keep new people from coming into the sport, and getting rid of people already in the sport.

Here's a reply to an e-mail regarding price - He said it was OK to fwd it:



Matt:

I know.

Philly is an expensive venue to put on a race when compared to places
like Cambridge, MD (Columbia) ; Bethany Beach, DE (Make-a-Wish);
Delaware City (Escape from Ft. Delaware) and other "non-big city"
locations. The big difference is the substantial costs for police
overtime, permits, etc. We don't have the option of using volunteers to
direct traffic, close streets, etc. Uniformed police are required for
this.

FYI, its about or exactly the same registration fee as the NYC Tri, the
Chicago, City of LA, etc. To be exact the 2005 NYC race is $125; in
2004 Chicago was $105; and LA is $150 in 2005.

Feel free to pass this along.

Thanks. Hope to see you.

Alan Morrison

Those are established races he is referring too. Why not move the race a little west of the city and have a better swim venue? $125 is outrageous. We are hungry for local tris in the central PA area, but I won't be paying $125.

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Andy

'You'd be surprised how many people violate this simple principle every day of their lives and try to fit square pegs into round holes, ignoring the clear reality that Thinsg Are As They Are.'

that's a good point. While it would be nice to race near the Art Museum, if you go out past King of Prussia/Valley Forge, there are trails and paths near Oaks and the river is much nicer.

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$115 for the 1/2, $75 for the sprint. That's a lot of money for what I see as providing a "middle of nowhere" race venue and race support, especially for the sprint. As a contrast, the local sprint triathlon in Monmouth County (Monmouth Park Sprint Triathlon) is only $25-30.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I love when race directors respond quickly to emails. It says a lot about them and about their races.

However, while other large cities charge that amount, this race will not close too many roads. (West River Drive is closed every weekend in the summer, Kelly Drive is closed often with rowing, cycling, picnics, festivals, and other events).

I guess I would just have a tough time paying $125 when I'm told that the high price is because of the city - and then realizing that the city in question is Philadelphia (can you say corrupt? I knew you could).

PS - The Philadelphia marathon is in about 10 days. More roads are closed for that race - and the entry price is very low for a marathon.

Now there's a real rip for you. Since we did a race in jersey just minutes from where their race is and they are trying to cash in on all of our work (sounds like Perryville), I'll tell you for a fact, that the police do not charge for their time and the park system in that area only charges a pavilion rental fee. So $75 for a sprint (plus don't forget USAT fees) is asking you to bend over and smile.

Let's apply some actual math to this problem. I'll use conservative estimates - please criticize my numbers because then we can get somewhere with this.

The most expensive olympic distance around here (upstate NY) is $80, and people complain about that one as well. So that leaves $55 per person to cover the police detail, which according to the organizers is the reason for the steep entry fee.

They are capping the race at 1,000 people. Let's be conservative and say this first-year race gets 600 people. That's $33,000 in the coffers for traffic control. At $50 an hour for your working cop, that amounts to 660 man-hours. If we're nice and allow people to do the bike and run in 4 hours, that's enough bread to pay 165 of Philadelphia's finest.

A quick aside: the Philly Tri is USAT-sanctioned, and USAT-sanctioned events are required to use traffic professionals for all "controlled" intersections (those with stop signs or stop lights). The assertion that other races in non-urban locales do not have to do this is incorrect if those races are sanctioned by USAT and abiding by the terms of their sanction.

So anyways, if you're willing to accept that 165 paid traffic professionals are necessary for 20k of real estate on the bike (it's a two-loop course) and 5k of real estate on the run (it's an out-and-back), then pay your money and have a blast.

If you're not, ask the hard questions. This sport will continue to be the dominion of the haves if we keep forking over every entry fee that comes down the pike.

Jeff

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Co-Race Director: The Seneca7 (seneca7.com)
FLX Challenge (flxchallenge.com)
formerly: Musselman Triathlon
formerly: City of Portland Triathlon
formerly: Fly by Night Duathlon

OMFG! - they want you to swim in the Schuykill?!?! I used to live in Philly and walked or biked over the Schuykill almost everyday. I don't think I'd swim in there if they were paying me $125. Just to be clear, I used to take my bike over a bridge, but I'm not sure that was necessary. I think you can probably bike across some sections of that "river" without one.

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What a drag it is getting old. -- Stones