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P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!!
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Hey kids,

I'm de-lurking for a bit, before my annual winter hiatus, to get the feedback of the ST bike illuminati.

Going to finally break down and get a new roadie, to replace my beloved (and semi-retired) '99 Klein Quantum Pro, which has been sitting disassembled in the garage attic for the past 2+ years, and I think may be relegated to dedicated trainer mule moving forward.

I've mostly got my options narrowed down to 2, with 2 variants - so 4 total.
(but if there's something I'm glaringly missing, shout it out!)

1 - C'Dale SystemSix - either HiMod Ult Di2 $7.9k, or the 'budget' option w/ standard CF and DA mechanical $6.3k

2 - Specialized Venge Pro - either '19 Ult Di2 $8k, or the real "budget" deal - an '18 closeout w/ mechinical DA for $5.5k

So - part of me likes the idea of sticking w/ tried & true mechanical shifting, as I've personally witnessed at least 3x where people I've been with have had their electronic shifting crap out at the worst possible time.
Any my alien-blood acid sweat πŸ˜“ that eats away at everything + electronics ='s higher odds of that possibly happening.

But - am I making too much out of that? Will I regret not having Di2?
It's also a minor aero penalty, since the mechanical shift cable routing isn't nearly as clean, since it is not fully internal.

My goals/wants/needs: aero bike, deep wheels w/ modern, wide rims that allow for at LEAST 28c tires.
And yes - I want disc brakes on a road bike, so I can more 'safely' gun for downhill KOM's on Strava. πŸ’¨
Needs to be tubeless-ready rims, which rules out the new Cervelo S3's, in case you were wondering why that wasn't on my list.

1 - C'Dale - Pros: checks ALL of the boxes. Bonus - HiMod comes w/ PM built in, so $499 turns it on, and Bob's your uncle. That's not available on lower spec model.
Cons: Don't love the Volt color on the mechanical version.
Electronic sold out currently - Not available until late March at earliest, maybe April even.
Not a dealbreaker, but - there's something to be said for immediate gratification.

2 - Spesh - Pros: dead sexy bike, checks almost all of the boxes, and currently available.
The '19 has 50mm wheels, the '18 comes with 64mm.
'18 is "cheap", so more $ for upgrades/PM/bribe Mrs ML. πŸ˜‚
Will I even notice that the '18 model not the bleeding edge aero road bike tech?
It also has a tighter front fork, so maybe β€˜only’ can fit a 26c up front, with 28 rear.
Cons: no PM on either so that's an extra expense/complexity.

For both, the electronic shifting is cleanest and most aero, naturally.
But mo' money, and (potentially) mo' problems?

What say ye, ST bike gurus?


float , hammer , and jog

Last edited by: Murphy'sLaw: Oct 26, 18 4:03
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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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Early congrats !

I really think the Trek Madone should be in that list. Love mine. But can’t go wrong with any of the ones you mentioned. Make sure to get a fit beforehand to dial in the exact sizes and stems you want.

I have DI2 and etap as well as mechanical.
For a road bike, etap hands down! Put derailleur and shifters on and you’re done! No wires with complex internal routing to deal with. Have never had issues but I do charge my battery once a month religiously.
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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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Thx KM!

My 2 primary LBS' are both Spesh/C'Dale dealers, so I'm likely going with one of those options, so I can support one of the shops that's supported me for years and years.
(one of those also carries Cervelo and 3T, which were 2 other options I had been considering)

The closest Trek dealer, I know of them, but haven't really ever done any biz there - so I'm not going to walk in and drop $6-8k with guys I don't know well.

I think I'm talking myself into the '19 Venge Pro - since I like the looks better, and I can actually HAVE IT NOW!!!
Daddy!! I want an Oompa Loompa!!

But I'd still love some opinions/suggestions from the ST bike crew - let's hear it, guys and gals!


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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Murphy'sLaw wrote:
Hey kids,

...

So - part of me likes the idea of sticking w/ tried & true mechanical shifting, as I've personally witnessed at least 3x where people I've been with have had their electronic shifting crap out at the worst possible time.
Any my alien-blood acid sweat πŸ˜“ that eats away at everything + electronics ='s higher odds of that possibly happening.

But - am I making too much out of that? Will I regret not having Di2?
It's also a minor aero penalty, since the mechanical shift cable routing isn't nearly as clean, since it is not fully internal.

...

For both, the electronic shifting is cleanest and most aero, naturally.
But mo' money, and (potentially) mo' problems?

What say ye, ST bike gurus?

When you say their shifting crapped out on them, do mean it completely malfunction or they just forgot to charge and the battery died? The most recent Ultegra is probably closer than it's ever been to Dura Ace and I'd take the Ultegra Di2 over DA mechanical every time.

I'm riding this year's Tarmac Pro with Ultegra Di2 and I love it. If they put as much thought into the new Venge, you can't go wrong there.
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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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I can only speak for the 19 Venge Pro with Di2 and it’s an awesome bike! I got it 3 months ago and have only not ridden it once and that was because I had a race. I can’t see how any bike on your list could be better, as long as the money isn’t an issue.
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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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I have noting meaningful to add....

I just want to know what the "P=" is for? I get the "N+1"...
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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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After riding my 2019 Tarmac Pro I would never go back to rim brakes or mechanical shifting!
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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [KingMidas] [ In reply to ]
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KingMidas wrote:
Early congrats !

I really think the Trek Madone should be in that list. Love mine. But can’t go wrong with any of the ones you mentioned. Make sure to get a fit beforehand to dial in the exact sizes and stems you want.

I have DI2 and etap as well as mechanical.
For a road bike, etap hands down! Put derailleur and shifters on and you’re done! No wires with complex internal routing to deal with. Have never had issues but I do charge my battery once a month religiously.

This ^, I bought the Madone Disc myself.
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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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I saw the c'dale in the flesh for the first time last night. The volt paint looks great in person. The KNOT64 wheels are basically a rebadged HED Vanquish 6, which I also got to handle in the 4 depth last night. It is a pretty slick setup.

The specy bikes are nice, but I can't bring myself to walk into the local specy dealers.

And I still think the new S3 is going to be the bike to get.

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes
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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
I have noting meaningful to add....

I just want to know what the "P=" is for? I get the "N+1"...

This is the formula for the Perfect number of bikes to own.
Whereby P = the Perfect number to own, and N = the current Number of bikes owned.

The corollary to this is P = D - 1

P remains the same, but D = the number of bikes that would cause you to get a Divorce.

The trick is solving for N + 1 being </= to D - 1


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [cold turtle] [ In reply to ]
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cold turtle wrote:
Murphy'sLaw wrote:
Hey kids,

...

So - part of me likes the idea of sticking w/ tried & true mechanical shifting, as I've personally witnessed at least 3x where people I've been with have had their electronic shifting crap out at the worst possible time.
Any my alien-blood acid sweat πŸ˜“ that eats away at everything + electronics ='s higher odds of that possibly happening.

But - am I making too much out of that? Will I regret not having Di2?
It's also a minor aero penalty, since the mechanical shift cable routing isn't nearly as clean, since it is not fully internal.

...

For both, the electronic shifting is cleanest and most aero, naturally.
But mo' money, and (potentially) mo' problems?

What say ye, ST bike gurus?


When you say their shifting crapped out on them, do mean it completely malfunction or they just forgot to charge and the battery died? The most recent Ultegra is probably closer than it's ever been to Dura Ace and I'd take the Ultegra Di2 over DA mechanical every time.

I'm riding this year's Tarmac Pro with Ultegra Di2 and I love it. If they put as much thought into the new Venge, you can't go wrong there.

Crapped out - most recent example: ST'er rented a bike from one of my LBS's, on my rec. to use for SOS.
They set him up with a road bike w/ Di2, which worked great in the parking lot the night before the race.
Race am, he gets to start line, and R der is DEAD, and he's stuck with 2 gears for the entire race, since he can only shift the front der.

At EpicMan training event in LP a few years back, ST'er MTL's lovely bride had a pimped out P5 with Di2.
It died completely on her at pretty much the furthest point on the IMLP course from the village, with no easy way to get back, and no way to fix it on the road.

PS - it's pretty amazing to me that the new Tarmac is now more aero than the original Venge.
(and rides like 1,000x better, due to being an actual road bike that happens to be fairly aero, vs an aero bike that wants to be a road bike like the 1st Venge was)
Ride on!


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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Nothing to add on the bike choice as I have no personal experience with either. I started using Di2 back when it was first released.......I would NEVER switch back to mechanical shifting EVER! 99% of the problems you will see with Di2 will be from a forgotten to charge battery. Out of 3 bikes with Di2, I have only ever had one problem....and that was from the bike that has the original Di2 (I think it's from around 2010/2011). Just this past year the box finally went bad and had to be replaced.
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Re: P = N + 1. πŸ˜‰ Help me choose my new Aero road bike!!! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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Murphy'sLaw wrote:
Tom_hampton wrote:
I have noting meaningful to add....

I just want to know what the "P=" is for? I get the "N+1"...


This is the formula for the Perfect number of bikes to own.
Whereby P = the Perfect number to own, and N = the current Number of bikes owned.

The corollary to this is P = D - 1

P remains the same, but D = the number of bikes that would cause you to get a Divorce.

The trick is solving for N + 1 being </= to D - 1

Unless you want your spouse to go... then N+1 may be the simplest way...
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