Also really curious about location and dates, I think the announcement said October is when details would be available. Someone correct me if I'm wrong there.

You are correct.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I did the PTO race in Edmonton last year. I had fun. Swag was good (t-shirt/backpack/bottles)

You are correct that they contract out the race organization. Edmonton was the same group that has done the ITU races in the past - so they knew what they were doing.

It was super cool to see all the pros up close.

Pairing us open with national champs seemed like a success and guarentee for spectators. I would hope they do something similar in the future if dates allow it.
E.g. europe open together with europe tri champs etc

One of my major complaints on this website is people make posts about announcements from somewhere and they don't link them...so can you link that because I don't see any announcement.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Geeezzz dude, read the front page once in awhile here.. (-;

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...nship_Tour_8762.html

Thanks. Ok I remember that but I was definitely confused by the OP, because there's really very little about to change with how they run their events. They just got World Triathlon to give them a world title...which they didn't need the ITU to give them. Not really sure it helps them much as they won't carry the same cache as Ironman World Champion, Ironman portion has significant value.

But on the amateur events, also nothing will really change. They won't promote their own events, they will continue to rely on a partner to subsidize their costs. That's been a huge part of their business model even though the entire business model of triathlon is reliant on registrations, not broadcast.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

You can also listen to the Triathlon Hour podcast with Sam Renouf, CEO of the PTO: https://howtheytrain.podbean.com/...ast-with-sam-renouf/

Really curious about the announcement in October and locations indeed. I assume they may try to do an even split between Americas, EMEA and Asia (?). Singapore seems to be already confirmed to come back. Probably Townsville in Australia alongside the multisport championship. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the races is in the Middle East. Definitely at least a couple in North America and Europe (On a French podcast (the highly recommended Tri Chaud), they also implied that one of the races will be in France. TBD). Not sure if they will go to Latin America (maybe Mexico? fairly deep tri culture there) and Africa for their first year but hopefully soon.

All suppositions. Can't wait to find out. I know the PTO comes with a lot of uncertainty and questions around the future of IM, lower-tier/up and coming pros, etc. but overall the developments seem very positive for the sport and it's healthy to have some competition.

I think as long as they partner up with another big race event like they did for US Open and Euro Open they'll be fine. Those types of events get the same AG experience as basically IM event experience. I think they have likely learned a lot over the last few years on what has worked and what their limitations on the "RD" side of it; so I think they'll more or less partner with bigger events and let them do the heavy lifting iwthin the race production side of it.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Also, I think the cachet will come... in my view it's actually already there thanks to the media lights on the pro events. The 3 PTO races were the strongest fields (and I thought the most exciting races) this year while IM was self sabotaging.
The combo of advertising/media brought by the PTO pro races (which was the major weakness of WT/local events) and support of local federations will probably attract much stronger amateur fields going forward. Not a representative sample but the few front of the pack triathletes I know definitely seem attracted by the new challenge; I'm not FoP and the format doesn't suit me that well but really leaning towards giving this a shot over IM next year (and I'll gladly save the extra $).
Really curious what amateurs on ST are thinking.

If there’s a PTO AG race in Southern California I’ll sign up instantly.

I’m looking forward to the announcement and, if there is a race which is logistically easy, I’ll be doing that next year for sure. I only hope the price doesn’t match Ironman’s current structure, as that is the main thing which has driven me away from them in recent years.

Have any of the PTO events offered amateur racing over 100km?...that would be a pretty big change.

-Scott

100KM has been the only distance of the amateur events, but the PTO hasn't "run" them. Dallas was USAT. Edmonton was the company that puts on WTCS Edmonton. Collins cup piggy backed off of Samorin. Slightly similar to a licensed Ironman but there are differences. Was there even an Amateur race in Singapore?

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

According to the PTO, Singapore had ~6000 racers among their various events. That includes an open water swim only and maybe some running events but still, one of the biggest triathlon events of the year probably.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

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Singapore this year had a 100k Triathlon,a short duathlon,a long duathlon and a night fun run.
The PTO races in Singapore are run by a local race company called MetaSport and the PTO race weekend in 2024 is on April 12th-14th
PTO Asian Open 2024 – Experienced Amateur Race | PTO (protriathletes.org)

MetaSport Singapore are a quality outfit that has hosted hundreds of events in it's history including Ironman 70.3 Bintan, MetaMan Iron Distance,Super League events,ITU events,cycle races,funs runs,etc,etc.You name it they have hosted it.

They have a coaching/club system in place for developing triathletes with their head coaches being 4 x ironman winner and Ultraman World Champ Kate Bevilaqua and her husband ex-pro Guy Crawford.

I think PTO/WT have an opportunity to create an AG middle distance world champs that AG-ers believe is the premier event, surpassing the IM 70.3 world champs. I think it would be great to pull on tri kit in my country colours and feel like I was really at an AG world champs. They need to get the marketing and athlete experience right, of course. Country federations have a role in that too. It helps them all that the IM brand has taken a few hits recently.

I raced in Ibiza this year at the WT long course world champs. It seems clear now that was a bit of a trial run for the PTO/WT partnership. I think few amateurs believe the WT long course world champs is the premier race of its type (albeit the pointy-end of AG racing is still pretty pointy at this race) - and won’t ever be compared to Kona/Nice. But it was a great event & experience, with the PTO euro open the day before it felt like a really big deal. So, offer me that package for a middle distance race that WT is calling world champs and for which the field is limited by proper qualifying criteria (which for me doesn’t need to be super-strict, just some clear boundaries) … yes please, where do I sign up!

What would be the world champions criteria?
WIll there be some qualifying races and then a grand finale? Or do you become world champ by getting points at different races?
If the second one, it is basically who pays more is the champ

IMO, 70.3 Worlds will still be the target for top AGers. I have to say I really enjoyed Lahti experience this year, despite having to stay 1 hour driving away from the location and that my bike is not back yet

And also, longer swim, shorter bike and shorter run. For me, no thanks

My understanding is that the PTO/WT AG world champs will be a one-off race that athletes qualify for via rules set out by their home country governing body. That you didn’t know this shows that PTO have much to do with the marketing of their AG event. It’s early days I guess but they really need to get it right with the Oct announcement they’ve said is coming. If they aren’t able to announce their 2024 pro race series with dates/venues and say race ‘X’ will have the AG world champs alongside then they will have missed a key moment to try to catch AG-ers attention as they start to plan their 2024 seasons.

I’m expecting qualification to work pretty much as it does currently for other WT AG group middle/long distance races. In the case of GB, you submit a race result from a qualifying race of your choice (various criteria for what counts as a valid qualifying race, but think IM 70.3 or other reasonably competitive event). A finishing time within 115% of the AG winner time is required for your application to be considered. British Triathlon then picks up to 20 athletes in each AG (mostly this is in order of the lowest % times vs the winner in their qualifying race, once ‘pre-qualified’ athletes have been picked (those who finished strongly in the same championship event the previous year + the national champion).

I think the criteria for other nations is different from GB. But regardless, I expect PTO/WT will just leave this with the various governing bodies to operate their own criteria. So, it seems like the PTO/WT world champs for AG will be similar to IM 70.3 world champs, just with a different way to qualify (and likely more like 1500-2000 athletes competing vs 6000 in Lahti).

If PTO/WT are smart, they will keep race fees similar to the current WT AG races, which are quite a bit cheaper than IM. I know some good athletes who do WT AG euro/world champs, but not IM world champs due to the very high IM race fees. I don’t disagree with you that currently top AG-ers target IM 70.3, but I also think some miss it due to the high cost. Not sure if PTO/WT can/will keep the costs low enough to attract these athletes.

You may well be right about IM 70.3 world champs, there’s a good deal of history/brand there, Lahti looked great and reports from my team mates were very positive (I was supposed to be there but tested +ve for covid the day I was supposed to travel … very 2021!). I’m just saying the Ibiza experience was strong enough that I think there’s a chance the landscape shifts towards the PTO/WT race, especially if at the pro level the PTO series consistently draws the best athletes vs 70.3 races (some evidence of that already this year).

Time will tell!

Interested in more info too.

Idk that they would continue to pair with existing AG events since they'll be offering an AG race. I doubt USAT would want them to offer a 100k AG race that would take away from AG Nats.

If someone from PTO is reading this, I do have concerns about what is going to happen to pro racing outside of the very best athletes (top-30 in the world types). I can totally see IM cutting back pro races/prize money. Would like PTO to have a pro start (for those outside of the top-30) at the front of the age group races with small prize purses (think IM $25k races). They could do the same thing IM does and have a small dues structure that would allow pros to race at any of those races. I think it would help second tier pros survive, race the same course as the top-30 to see where they stack up, & attract sponsors since there will be eyes on these races.

I also much prefer a longer bike and run (and relatively shorter swim) but it's still relatively close to a 70.3.

Based on Sam Renouf's interview, the qualification will be handled by the federations and, in my view, qualifying that way is more legit and selective than the IM roll down process and charging $ through the nose for the "world championships" events (even if it depends on your federation and level of competitiveness of your country). I think it's also pretty cool to race as a country team.
They will also have an open race for everyone else.
He was pretty clear that they will keep the prices down.

I've never looked at qualifying to a worlds event through AG nats, but I had assumed it was exactly a roll down process based on AG placement and not only that but then made it incumbent on the racer to buy expensive kit to race at the world event?

But still? Ben, come on dude.. What are the actual numbers of those events? If you look at the results page..


100K Triathlon 711
Standard Duathlon 735
Long Duathlon 266


Total registered being 1,712

Largest triathlon of the year still? :)


I could see the "Music Run" which was Saturday night being popular but then again those used to get like 15-20K people to those things.

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E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

Ha. Fair for pulling up actual numbers. I was just reciting what Sam Renouf had told the PTN guys. Should have figured they'd be generous with their stats.

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors