I read Toms posts...And find them to be very informative because he knows his sh*t. He seems like a very smart business man.

I talked to him for a moment at Interbike...He is a very nice guy.

Pooks. I am all for posting sale items on the classifieds, that's where I posted all of my stuff. However, as I posted earlier I think it becomes extremely difficult to draw the line where something is "for sale" post versus an "infomative/descriptive" post. For example, as I wrote before, when Tom posted that the s-bends were in and he had 16 sets and they were moving fast I can understand how people would think ok put it on the classifieds. But when you take in context all of the people that had been asking when are the s-bends going to be available, on the main forum, I think (again just my opinion) that it is an appropriate place to respond. Thoughts?

WOW!

Nothing like throwing a little gas on the fire to get things going huh?

Dopey, there just isn't enough of an issue to bring to the table. Most everyone posting and reading here has the full realization that they control where they spend their time by virtue of which posts they open. You do too by the way. If you don't want to be left with the idea that someone is promoting a product or service, don't go there. Remember though, you may lose some knowledge along the way.

For you to open one of Tom's posts now would be like me reading the New York Times. I know full well what I will see long before I pick it up. I'm simply reaffirming what I knew would be there. Rarely agree, but I still take a look once in a while to make sure nothing has changed. Never hurts to look. I just don't spend much time there.

You might find greater acceptance to let this one go. And then, either don't open his posts, or go there accepting what you will find.

That's a pretty easy fix rather than trying the banishment route. Makes more friends too.

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Train hard...race well.
www.jimmishler.com
"Jim, I happen to agree with you" DougStern

It seems Slowman hasn't had a problem with Tom's many differant types of posts on HIS forum.

[quote]I have no objections to his posts. They are fine. It's just that many belong in a different forum. Period.

Let us know when YOUR forum is up and running so we can post over there following your rules and regs. Fair enough?

Jim

"I'm an average, ordinary, every day idiot--maybe. But not a complete idiot!"

Don't give up on yourself...

And great thread, btw. We're at 7 pages and counting, and with no scantily clad maidens to boost readership!!

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Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
Brought to you by the good folks at Metamucil and Geritol...

If you go to post number 1 in this thread dopey has a valid point- and I'm not agreeing for the sake of agreeing.

My posts are sometimes openly promotional/sales oriented. I do make an effort to preface those posts or write them in such a way that uninterested parties can just read another, non-sales post.

But like everybody does- including me- I think dopey just got sick of the commercials.

I do try to maintain a balance between salesmenship and participation on non-sales oriented threads and posts, not just for balance, but also because (as is obvious by someone who posts with the odd frequency I do) I enjoy being a part of it.

It was interesting that during this debate on this forum I was posting to another forum, Tibb's room next door, on Playboy centerfolds, the war in Iraq and my appearance in Penthouse magazine in May 2002. Not too many people were reading those threads.

So, the dopster has a point. At which point my commercial posts become obnoxious to the greater forumship I will either stop or move them- which would be tough for me since the bulk of my life has to with selling and fiddling with triathlon stuff.

For the record I guess, during the time I was hyping some products I was critical of others too. Anyway, this is a good thread and has certainly been nice to read. For all the people who have expressed appreciation of my posts- thank you. Obviously, I really enjoy doing it.

Have a good 'un!

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

You could have wrote this a lot earlier and saved Dopey a lot of grief. Do you enjoy people getting attacked at your expense?





(I'm just busting your balls Tom. I'm in a happy/agressive mood today so pay me no mind.)

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

I think Tom said it well. While he was hyping the Easton wheels he was slamming the Tufo tubular clinchers. And he is clearly a participant in this forum on many levels to a nearly addictive point. I don't always agree with what he says, but I find him interesting and worth reading.

I used to participate in another roadie forum which I found very interesting and valuable. Over time, the participants became obsessed with keeping anyone with any kind of commercial agenda out, and with keeping trolls out. Something needed to be done about the trolls, some nasty vicious attacks occurred, but in doing so the baby was thrown out with the bath water. Now the forum is blissfully free of anything even remotely resembling a troll or a commercial post. Unfortunately, the forum is so blissfully free of anything approaching debate or disagreement that it has become a boring social corner for a bunch of people that agree about everything and have the same perspective. This forum gets more posts in five minutes than the other one gets in a day.

The participation of people in the industry adds a huge amount to this forum. As long as they are honest in disclosure and a reasonable happy medium is kept between the overall tone of the forum and their business agenda, I'm all for their feedback and participation.

If this helps them make a buck, so what? Last I remembered, we were living in a capitalist country and pursuit of profit wasn't an evil thing.

And another thing.

That Tom's shameful charitable promotion for buying the 4 Kid's bikes.

(Just kidding Tom - hell it wasn't even your idea)

Let's see, how much did Tom get paid for putting the bikes together, etc. I bet it was a big fat Zero.

Well, I never said anything like that pooks ?! And I don´t think I miss the point when I suggest all salesrelated topics to be moved to the classifieds-forum. It´s just an opinion.



Regards



Martin

Dude! You were in Penthouse? Did it have anything to do with Mr. Tibbs?

Awesome.

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"How vain it is to sit down to write when you have not stood up to live."
-H.D.Thoreau

When I said that I get a lot of information from him, I didn't mean that I was posing a lot of questions for him or directly communicating with him. All I meant is that I have read many of his excellent posts which contain advice, new product pics, etc., and I generally enjoy them. And, no, I don't have another screen name. Just one. I haven't been a very frequent poster since I registered in February of this year.

To repeat myself for the umpteenth time, I have no objection to his posts. All I'm asking is that the truely commercial sales pitches (which Tom D. acknowledges doing) go to the classifieds forum, which is where should go.

As for the insults about my screen name (and all of the other insults and threats I've received in this thread), is that the best you can do? If you're going to insult me, you've got to dig deep and come up with something really nasty, something which gets under my skin and festers for a while. The insults you all have come up with are just embarrassing--for you, not for me.

Now go away and don't post again until you've come up with an insult that causes me to seek out psychotherapy.

Totally disagree. I think Tom's posts are great and he discloses his position in the industry.

We all benefit greatly from his posting on here. How about you exercise your ability to NOT read his posts?

How do we know you don't work for a competitor and are just trying to stifle his business?

I don't want to stifle his business. I hope his business has a banner year. I have nothing against him, and I don't work for a competitor. I just think that those of his sales pitches which are really classified ads belong in the classifieds forum.

As for "how do I know...," I don't know what to say there. I can't prove a negative. How do I know that you're not him, under another screen name? How do I know that you don't work for him, and are trying to help him get free advertising for his products? How do I know that the sun will come up tomorrow? You can see where that leads.

Democracy is mobocracy. Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds. We do not need or deserve petitions. We need and deserve a philosopher-king who can lay down the law with threat of force to back up her wise commands.... Have a Merry Kim Jong Il Day. :)

"Have a Merry Kim Jong Il Day"

I think this is actually a paid day off over the hill in Berkeley. It replaced the last Holliday for some terrrable "dead white guy".

Dave

NOW THAT IS AN INSULT!! Truly awesome. I was likened to the dictator of North Korea, with a picture and everything! That is going to stick with me for a LONG time. Well done!!

Other ST posters--take note. That's how you insult someone.

Many of you will be pleased to read this. I'm done with this thread. Now that I've received the insult of a lifetime, my work here is complete.

Last night I was drunk, and you all were ugly. But it's morning now, and I've sobered up, but you...well....

Yup, been in Penthouse, well, mentioned in it. May 2002, page 19. And let me tell you, Robin, the writer, is a total fox. I've met with her on four continents in the most unlikely places. She also writes for Soldier of Fortune.

She once invited me to spend the night with her in Dracula's castle, or the ruins of it, in what was Wallachia in what I think is now Romania. It was for a feature she did for Penthouse. Huge mistake. I had (have) a huge crush on Robin. She is a female Robert Capa, Robert Young Pelton type journalist. I admired her edgy writing and perspective and willingness to work for publications others wouldn't touch.

I haven't seen Robin since the Iraqi handshake incident in 2001 after 9/11 when she and I were in Jordan. We shared a Landrover for the rough, dark drive in the middle of the night out to the desert.

She was one of the reporters there to record the moment that Associated Press flashed around the world the following day.

I remember a party in Northern Africa, under a massive, luxurious tent in the Sahara guarded by men in dress uniforms mounted on huge camels. Dancers swirled to exotic music around a huge fire. We ate Middle Eastern delicacies from a huge plate. Robin appears at this party in this black evening gown- on the edge of the Sahara desert. It was long and plunging with little rhinestone spaghetti straps. She had this dramatic eye make-up on. In the desert, at night, around that fire under that huge tent with all that food, music, the smoke... I tell you, it was incredible.

I asked her, "How did you get that gon all the way across this desert My Dear?" She said, "No matter where I am Thomas, I am first a girl..."

Rumor was she smuggled it aboard the Jordanian Super Puma helicopter that flew air cover and reconnaisance for us.

I think I could have married her. She was incredible. She had no interest in me. If I recall correctly that night, she repaired to her enclave with a tall, dashing and swarthy Italian man, years my junior and much more handsome...... Ahhhhhh, Robin.

Thank you. I hadn't though of her in a while. I have photos somewhere. I'll find one and post it. but they don't convey her real beauty, appeal and allure. Not even close....

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

And you now you steal from Winston Churchill.

dopey dopey dopey.... 'Tis ironic indeed that the dialectical victor in this thread (assuming your foundational premises are correct) should commit at the last moment such a tyronic blunder. The thrust of my post, and its not-entirely mock frustration with the democratic ideal, was not directed towards you, but rather towards the lack of analytical vigor and democratic spirit evident in several posts contrary to your position... its like a logical fallacy convention in here... But as I have seen nothing particularly egregious in TD's conduct, or perhaps because I missed a blatant "buy stuff here" post by him, I suspect at any rate that your post was nothing but a well-primed and artfully-delivered troll with which to hone your polemical and dialectical prowess? (Similar to the so-called "Frank Day Grenade" (toss and duck)). I'd bet Tibbs's last dollar that you are a lawyer. (No barb intended there either... I am a lawyer, too.) Kool pic of the great leader though, no? Got it from http://www.economist.com/...cfm?story_id=3445136



good quote: Communism was “brought to its knees because nobody wants to wear Bulgarian shoes.” -- PJ O'Rourke.

Have you seen Team America yet? Kim was the funniest damn thing in a long time. Take it as a compliment.

I'm so ronree
So very ronree

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"I remember a party in Northern Africa, under a massive, luxurious tent in the Sahara guarded by men in dress uniforms mounted on huge camels. Dancers swirled to exotic music around a huge fire. We ate Middle Eastern delicacies from a huge plate. Robin appears at this party in this black evening gown- on the edge of the Sahara desert. It was long and plunging with little rhinestone spaghetti straps. She had this dramatic eye make-up on. In the desert, at night, around that fire under that huge tent with all that food, music, the smoke... I tell you, it was incredible."

WTF?!? Where did that come from?!? ... Is this fact or fiction??? Did her dress look anything like this...

Point well taken. Yes, I am a lawyer.

Your message, however, could easily be interpreted as I did. And yes, I agree that my opposition typically lacked a certain sophistication. Hence my post about wanting a real insult.

And now, I won't post to this thread anymore. It's served its purpose.

Kirk out.

Hear, Hear.

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"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

Tom may be an unapologetic promoter of his ideas and his products, but unless he's offering product X for price Y in this forum I don't think he's outside the lines. The Easton wheels thread was close, but is a new wheel thread more objectionable than a WOODY thread? Good grief....

I support Tom's right to post here. Let's not clutter up the classifieds with what are often new product announcements/discussions. I'd much rather have that stuff here.

Just my .00002 Rupees worth....

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank