Isn't it interesting that those who make the commitment to the cranks keep reporting results like this and those that don't, don't. Keep it up and we will have you really rocking by IM FL again.

BTW, for you triathletes out there, the absolute best chance of winning a pair, like Steve did, is by participating in the Janus Charity Challenge at the IM NA events.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I did the Sunrise Run-Bike-Run (3mi/16mi/3mi) last week, and never using PCs really made me faster. There was a killer headwind returning on the bike (~17min out, ~25 back); no way was I gonna go as fast as I did by turning big gears, and still be able to run. I was 9th off the first run, and 7th off the bike; I held that position to the finish. Last year, the overall winner beat me by 3:30; this year he was just ahead of me by only :24!

My second run was only :15/mile slower than the first; I attribute my freshness on the second run to training exclusively without PCs. At age 46 (today's the birthday!), I need every advantage I can get to continue getting faster (and I am getting faster!), and not using PCs really fits the bill. Add this to my other duathlon this year, where I gained between 1 and 2 minutes on the bike split compared to those I raced against at a race last year, and that includes two pros (one of whom beat Spencer Smith at the race in April)! If I could only use the PCs less than never, I'd be even faster.

So there.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

My comment was strictly in relationship to PC users and those users who use them "correctly" and those users who don't (at least according to me). It was not meant to say that people who don't use PC's can't improve or, even, do well.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

I read your race report on another site. You commented that you alternated between spinning about 90 and 75-80 I think. How much time for each? You've only been on PC's since this March? What cadence do you ride your PC's (can you ride PC's like you raced - 90 cadence?)?

Thanks

Did I read this right?? He saw that kind of improvement after using the PCs for 1 month?? I must be missing something.

Nevermind, I found it..."Some of the increase was clearly due to bike volume". IMO all of the increase was due to bike volume.

Andabeer wrote: Did I read this right?? He saw that kind of improvement after using the PCs for 1 month?? I must be missing something. Nevermind, I found it..."Some of the increase was clearly due to bike volume". IMO all of the increase was due to bike volume.

What do you base your opinion on? Have you trained on PC's? Have you ridden on them for a even one minute? Do you know what kind of pedal stroke he had before training on PC's? I don't think I improved my biking speeds the first month I trained on PC's, that doesn't mean this fellow couldn't. I'm certainly in no position to evaluate exactly what to credit for his improvement, maybe it was all due to bike volume, maybe it was partially due to better pedalling mechanics, maybe it was the lower rpm work that was being forced to be done because of PC adaptation, maybe he had a tailwind most of the ride. I don't know...and I suspect you haven't trained on PC's, so you know even less than I about his situation...but, you do have a right to your opinion; whether it was formed from similar experiences or just out of thin air.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I would have to agree with AndABeer, IMO there is no way your going to see huge cycling gains in a month by using PCs. I have been using them for 3 months, but after only a month of using them I was far from seeing huge gains. In fact my cycling probably suffered a bit compared to others who were not using them during the same month period. I just couldn't get the miles and/or saddle time in that others were able to do with regular cranks. The main reason for this was because my hip flexors just couldn't handle the truth. :) Actually they just didn't have the aerobic capacity to bike very far before they said stop. IMO it takes at least 3 months before things really start to click and you start seeing improvements. I am talking 3 months of exclusive use. For me it really wasn't until 2 1/2 months of using them that things really started to change. The hip flexor's don't become aerobic over night, it takes time.

I think you are right, too. However, if he was like me, and found that an ultra-smooth spin was due to a really bad pedalling technique (I fought a powerful downstroke by actually resisting with the rising foot), one month of PC training could be a contributor to his improvement. But, my point was, there are those that have NO experience, but just seem quick to snipe.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Hi Dave,

In the race, I tried to push the bigger gear as much as possible, since that's when I was going faster. Every once in a while, I would struggle, and I would see my cadence and speed drop off quickly. When that happened, I downshifted 2 gears, spun up to 100 or so and got back into the bigger gear. Also, when the pavement got particularly bad, I found it easier to spin than to push.

On the PCs, I started with a cadence of about 60 and gradually built it up to about 80 by really focusing on pedaling circles. I don't think I could stay in synch with the PCs spinning at 90+.

Your right that some of us comment with no experience on PC's but that is partially because almost every thread on this site turns to PC usuage...like it's it the only thing that will improve your cycling and running. What about doing isolated leg work on your trainer to hit the HF's...hmmm, that might work. Then to improve pedal efficiency you could do long rides in the hills or mountains...gee, that might work to.

There are more ways than this product to improve so don't get so testy when others get a little tired of hearing about the PC's all the time. I'm sure they are great and will work for those people that can and will invest the time to use them correctly. But some of the claims are getting a little large to say the least.

beer,

All i know is that prior to riding the PC's, I was a 95+ spinner that could go for many hours at 20 mph, but couldn't go 22 for more than 10 minutes. The PCs forced me to get comfortable turning the bigger gear, since it was easier to stay in synch at 60 cadence than 100. Comfort, strength, technique, who knows?

Prior to Gulf Coast, I was probably not going to put the PCs back on, cause they just make riding feel like work instead of fun. However, riding 2.5 hours and only being passed by 1 person was also really fun, so the PCs are going back on next week.

  I read your race report on the other site and I congratulate you on a great improvement on the bike. But how can you advocate a product like that when you biked so fast and then ran so slow. It seems that anybodyd can hammer a bike and then run slow. Maybe you had a bad day out there, but to highlight the bike when you almost matched that time on the run? I thought the object of a triathlon was to swim, bike, and RUN fast.

Jimmy S.

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Jimmy S.

Now THAT is funny!

Run was also a 30 minute improvement from last year. Run time of 2:09 was within the goal range of 2:00 - 2:10. Run time was also in top half of my AG, whereas I usually am in the bottom 1/3. Would I like to have gone faster, sure. My stand alone 1/2 mary pr is 1:53 at 50 degrees, and at Gulf Coast it was also 90+ degrees with zero shade on the run.

My original post was merely to say that before PCs I was a "slow" spinner (and a slow runner...) and that the PCs merely openned my eyes to the benefits of turning circles on a bigger gear.

I have always read the various PC flame sessions with amusement. I am no PC salesman, I have no interest in other people buying/using them. Just a comment from a user.

The problem with AndABeer's evaluation and opinion, which you touched on but didn't realize it, is: How many people do you know who increase their mileage when changing over to PC's? If this person increased his mileage then it says something about his transition and if he increased his mileage on PC's then such an improvement is possibly due "almost entirely" to the PC's. It is laughable (from a PC'er perspective) for him to opine that the improvement is "entirely" due to the increased mileage. Doesn't the opinion of the person who experienced the improvement count for anything?

There is clearly a wide variation in how people adapt and when people start to see improvement. I think your experience is more normal but it doesn't mean that others can't see big improvement sooner.

Frank

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Frank,
An original Ironman and the Inventor of PowerCranks

T2 wrote:...don't get so testy...

You're exactly right. I'm sidelined with bronchitis/pneumonia and am in a really bad mood as a result. Sorry.

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Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

IronStevie,

You will find that if you ride the PCs for another month or two that riding with them will become more comfortable. Initially (Usually the 1st 2 months), riding with PCs is pretty tough. Your constantly thinking about what your doing (pulling up) and your butt is pushed down in the seat more than with normal cranks. It just isn't very fun. After a while though, you stop thinking about pulling up (It becomes automatic) and you become lighter in the seat, so the comfort factor becomes much better.



Anyone who has done isolated leg leg drills on the bike knows it isn't exactly fun. I mean your almost always on the trainer clipping in and out alternating legs. With PCs your basically doing the same thing without having to clip in and out. Also your able to ride outside on the road rather than a trainer. IMO all the positives with none of the negatives.

Another extremely benefitial aspect to PCs is the fact that your working both legs out rather than favoring one leg over the other. It is like swimming where instead of always breathing to one side, your alternating your breathing. First on the right and then on the left.

Sure you can do long rides in the hills/mountains with regular cranks, but do them on PCs and you will get even stronger. In the beginning though you will be slower for sure on PCs, but given time your going to climb like you never have, at least that is my experience thus far.

[reply]beer,
All i know is that prior to riding the PC's, I was a 95+ spinner that could go for many hours at 20 mph, but couldn't go 22 for more than 10 minutes. The PCs forced me to get comfortable turning the bigger gear, since it was easier to stay in synch at 60 cadence than 100. Comfort, strength, technique, who knows?
[/reply]

Doing low RPM (60-70) will definitely help your spinning ability through strength and improvement in technique. At lower RPMs it is more obvious when your legs are fighting each other or you aren't pedaling in circles. By concentrating on pedaling slow I was able to increase my average 20 mile route speed by about 1.2mph in 1 month. I was comfortable riding 95-105, but I wasn't nearly efficient enough.
Oh, and I increased my bike speed from 18.1mph to 21.2mph since last year's race, and where I was struggling last time I cruised this time, most of the time spinning at 22-23mph and 100RPM. I would wager that if you had done a lot of low RPM drills you would have also seen some dramatic improvements.

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Yaq - No worries at all and I meant nothing personal either. Sorry to hear that you are sidelined right now.

I just want us to keep some perspective on all of this. IMO if you apply yourself to any quality training method or device long enough it will have positive effects. I'm sure that PC's can have a beneficial effect when used properly and consistently. You and many other are proof of that.

That said, it has seemed of late (to me and a few others at least) that many are claiming every gain they have made in the sport is related to PC's. I'm not saying this thread in particular but many threads lately...it seems like a little to much hype. Obviously many people swear by them and that's great, but many of us have made huge improvements as well and never used them.

  IronStevie,

I apologize if I offended you. Good job on race execution then, since you were within your run goal and you had a smashing bike.

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Jimmy S.

no worries. trust me, it sucks to be a slow runner but I will/am getting better.

Ironstevie, First of all, you and everyone else that finished that race Sat. are all tough as it was HOT as crap on Sat. ( I know, cause I was fishing 2 counties over from PC) I thought about everyone suffering in the heat and I was glad I wasn't one of them!

When you say you were a "slow" spinner do you mean that you were riding "slow" with a fast cadence? Does the bigger gear work (in your case w/ PC's) impair (impair is the wrong word,) I mean lessen your ability or desire to spin? and or do you feel that you can "spin" a bigger gear? Ex. 53:15 +/-

Reason I ask is my riding sounds similar to your old style, I can spin 100-115 20-21mph with no problems but the bigger gears at a lower cadence blow up my legs fast!! However, I have been able to put together some good runs off the bike after spinning. I am curious if I could slow down my spinning and push a bigger gear (allowing my bike split to improve!!) without adversely effecting my run????

RB,

"slow" spinner for me means that I was riding 20 or so in my 39 at 95+ cadence. In the 2 years I've been biking, I think I probably spent less than 10% of my time in my big ring. When I did hit the 53, I would absolutely run out of leg strength after only a few minutes. Ask my training partners. They would hear me move into the 53 and I'd be gone off the front. Then 10 minutes later, they would ride up to me while I was spinning my brains out trying to get back to 20-21.

I split 5:53 at IMFL last year spinning my 39 and one of the middle gears, but never going below 90 cadence. Actually, my bike computer registered 5:37, cause I spent 15 minutes alongside the road un-hydrating. At a 12 hour bike race in Feb, I was able to average about 18 (210 miles total) by spinning the 39. At that race, my knees hurt after about 7 hours if I got below 100 cadence, so I spun about 105 for the remaining time. Again, not really "slow", but not 23 mph either.

I'm not sure about the difference in running off spinning versus running of mashing, but I'll experiment a bunch this summer. Later

Carbo, I know the feelin' I've been off the program 16days with pneumonia and doc says I can't get back in the game for 10 more days, I'm climbing the walls!! I will probably need swim lessons with the kids to figure out how to swim when I get back!! Think positive :)