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Overlooked demographic?
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I am not a market researcher. I am not smart. I have zero scientific basis for what I am about to say. Again thinking is hard for me. So just flow with it...

In the process of finding a way to organize and grow the cult of Secondhand I have been getting some damn good emails. People have opened up about not only what they want to change about the sport but what they love aobut it. I have been analyzing the best I could into the info I am recieving and have come to a conclusion. There is a huge demographic in the sport being missed.

There are a lot of things that make me see a great unwashed amongst us. I will talk bikes as a way to get what I am trying to say out. I am limiting what information I know and leave the whole thing opened end for your ideas. This is a new idea. Use your great brain power to see if I am going somewhere.

I was looking at the Cervelo One at the store and on the website. Like all Cervelo products it is a well designed, high quality bike with my lusty drool all over it. What stood out to me is the way it was packaged for the less exprienced. Slack seat angle, STI, drop bars, etc. I was wonder how long it would take a person to "out grow" this set up. I was also wondering what the proper rider set up would be on it geometery. Great bike but confused on what it is exactly.

Emails have poured in an Secondhand Racing all talking about the price of the sport. The two big areas of concesron are race fees and bikes. I have asked people what he problem with the bike is and they all say the same thing. All the cheap beginners bikes are not what they want after a couple off races. When moving into a lower position the bikes that get them there can be a little pricy. They buy them but are still not happy about the dollars spent.

It's like there is a group who are not bike nut enought to see the C40 as a great buy (I do! The C40 is pure sex on wheels. Oh yeah.) but know that some coin is going to have to be laid down for good fit and performance.

Is there a group of not new newbies who are stuck between newbies and old salted dogs?

I know this is confusing so PLEASE post back. Just throw out what you think and lets talk through this. This issue is very very important to me and I would be thankful if you could play a long. The more posts the more I will learn.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure what can be done abut race fees, as the market has shown what price an RD can get away with charging. As for the bikes however, aren't the Cervelo Dual, Hwy Nineteen Richter Comp, and the QR Tequilo aimed directly at that market? All are bikes that could win an IM (given a suitable engine), but also within reach of a "normal person".


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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Khai] [ In reply to ]
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Let's also not forget about the second hand market. That's where you can get the real deals. I know a guy who is building up a second hand tri bike. The QR Kilo frame cost him $100. on ebay and every other component is also second hand. The only exception is the CH Aero disc covers for $59.95 new. He'll have a near state of the art bike for around $700.

After all, it is called Second Hand Racing.
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Man, there are many places this thread can go. On the manufacturing side, some costs just can't be ignored. There is a reason for the price difference between a $200.00 bike and a $2000.00 bike on the manufacturing side as well as the retail side. I could go on for hours alone, having worked both sides.

There are other market factors at work such as supply elasticity and demand elasticity. Basically, take a product that is difficult to produce well (such as an iron-distance race) and you have what is called and inelastic supply. A 5k running race is much easier to produce (I know, there is still a ton of work involved). Perhaps not the best example. Demand inelasticity would be like me & coffee. I can't function without it, so I'll pay what ever the asking price is.

At the risk of opening up a can of worms: The cost of triathlon is high if you want it to be, but in reallity, SONY sells a lot more HDTV's at $1500.00 a pop than all the bike makers put together. So, really what you have is what kind of value does the individual place on tri/multisport. It doesn't have to be expensive unless one feels that they "have to" do an M-dot race, or ride XXX bike. I race a standard road bike, sans clip-ons, 32 spoke wheels, 105 group and still have fun. My swimming doen't justify a high-zoot bike. Maybe one day in the future. Some people have to wear Tommy Hilfiger clothing or they just don't feel good about themselves.

HTH,

Brett
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [timberwolf] [ In reply to ]
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"My swimming doen't justify a high-zoot bike"

Niether does mine, but my running does - it's sloooowwww. That's exactly why I need a decent bike, to try and put some distance on the fast runners in the AG.
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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I think the thing that is missing from the triathlon market is the bike that is aimed at the cheap bastard, but who has plenty of experience and wants something that will provide a good, versatile, aggressively aero position. Maybe this is a challenge for the bunnyman institute.

What about an inexpensive, aluminium round tubed frame (under $600) with the same geometry as a P2K, a 76.5 degree seat angle and a reversible seatpost (essentially what the P2K is). Sell the complete bike for $1200 or less with lower end, serviceable components, or offer it as a framekit with a variety of build options. Oh yeah, give it 2 water bottle mounts, which is my biggest beef with Cervelo, and some others.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Missed a market ! How about the people who don't know what to buy because people in the sport will call them names "poser", refuse to ride with them, Never take the time to teach them and say things like "Sorry this lane is for REAL swimmers".
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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I think people make it out to be more than it is – from how much money they spend and how much money they need to spend.

I've spent a bit of money on gear so I think I understand what you are saying. But in an attempt to put in perspective I'm trying to think of what other sports cost. For me, to truly compare sports I need to compare the length of time the sport can be done for (I like to occupy my time with things besides TV and sports is my chosen way) and the sport has to be something that doesn’t depend on others.



Golf – Clubs, shoes, bag, glove, drinks, lunch and fees

Rock climbing – Usually dependant on others but you can go solo. Rope, harness, shoes, chalk bag, carabineers, cams, nuts, hexes, etc…

Skiing/snowboarding – Boots, socks, thermals, jacket, gloves, goggles, glasses, hat, skis/board, bindings, poles, pack, lift ticket or season pass, lodging

X-country skiing - Boots, socks, thermals, jacket, gloves, goggles, glasses, hat, skis, bindings, poles, pack, parking fees, lodging

Bowling – Ball, shoes, bag, glove, lane fees

Inline skating – Skates, pads, helmet, wrist guards, medical bills :P



I’ll stop here because my point should be coming across. I don’t know if you’ve done any of the above sports but the only one you can get into and participate in for a year for under $1000-2000 is inline skating.



My main two points are:
  • There isn't a lot of sports that you can do solo
  • There aren’t many inexpensive sports


You could argue that the above sports can be done inexpensively but the same argument can be made for triathlon.



"your horse is too high" - tigerchik
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [jasonk] [ In reply to ]
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Hot damn! I knew someone would start figuring out my vibe.

Here it goes. Is there a group in our port who are more furgal than cheap? Look at bikes. Ok you have two choices. Agressivly angled bikes with all the extra wizz bang side orders or "multisport bikes" with inbetween geometery. Wouldn't people buy a bike with solid geometery and no frills? Round tubes, good quality metals, steep seat, short top and head tube, comfortable ride with out the buttery texture and oaky under tones? Why can't this bike be made?

Components. I was looking at a pair of Syntance the other day. Great stuff. Couldn't simulair design be made cheaper? You move into the realm of cheap components and you get not only bad production but fucked up designs. Look at the bars on KHS new newbie bike. What the hell?

Lets keep going. Is there a class here is more woried aboutthe sport and not the doodads? I am no tmakeing a staement I'm trying to figure it out. There is a huge disconnect I am picking up. I am getting eamails and phone calls from people who kinda confide in me about where they are in the sport. I am the dumbass over at Secondhand that bums gear. This makes people open up to me a little more and while that rave about the great things they aren't too happy with where they are in the sport. They don't hate the sport but the feel kinda lost. You want good you pay and get called a poser. You buy to your ability and you get shit.

Come on people work with me! I am not looking for right or wrong here. Just wing it off you feelings. What does this sport need? Not just kit but other things too? Just throw something out.

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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This is LONG and my thoughts are pretty unorganized but...

I might be going off in an odd direction, but that is not unusual...

Yes this sport is expensive to get into and stay in, but many sports are.

I think the issue that compounds the cost problem is the informational problem. There are a number of dimensions to the information problem, and ultimately they wreak havoc on affordability. Let me try to explain with an example.

I am no huge tri expert, been in the sport a bit of time and do have a pretty extensive swimming/swim coaching experience. I was asked by a friend who has no real competitive athletic background but wants to do a tri to help him out a bit. Here is what I have experienced with him regarding information, cost and their compounding effects.

First information hurdle is the training. Ya - to some degree it should start off as simple as - get your fat ass off the couch and work out 3 to 5 times a week - or more graciously get your self swimming 3 times a week for a total of 1 hour, run a total of 10 miles a week and bike 3 times a week for a couple of hours. Don't kill your self, if it hurts slow down, make sure you have a rest day or two in your week. In 6 to 8 weeks check back in for more training info and program refinement. This is a simple plan, but for someone who is just starting out it needs to be this simple.

But no - we crush people from the start with 16 to 24 week training programs, talking about HR monitoring, lactate thresholds, bla, bla, bla. True example, my friend (very bright lawyer) who did some research on starting his training was about to NOT go after his tri goal because he felt he simply could not understand everything and/or implement the wealth of, but overbearing and far too technical, information he was reading on starting a tri training program. I know people will argue that there are simple plans out there, but they are not easily accessible. No the easy to access training info is the most complex info, and that scares people.

Logical solution if you are my lawyer friend who does not know someone like me is to hire a coach. Coaches cost some pretty serious $$. See the connection between information and cost?

Second information hurdle is regarding all the 'stuff' you need to do a tri. Any newbie who picks up a tri rage has to have info overload looking at all the gadgets, gizmos, and must have things portrayed in the mag. Then they go to the web for info. I know sites and their creators need to make some cash, but the advertising is incredible!!! More stuff than you can pack into a 2 car garage appears to be needed to do your first sprint tri. Now we move the newbie onto price and smoke comes out of their head! This stuff anit cheep, but unlike golf equipment that can be bought at K-mart or second hand sports shops, tri stuff at least appears to only be gotten at specialty shops that charge full frate. To be honest, to the newbie this stuff seems exotic and to quote my lawyer friend, does he really want to buy something he has never even seen in person (ex. wet suit) off E-bay? 'No.' Could he spend a ton of time searching the web for deals and close outs, actually no he is too busy trying to figure out a training regiment, and again he is not to confident buying some stuff he has never even touched.

OK - so now I am establishing the second connection between information and cost - getting the stuff to do a tri. I know some are going to argue that all you really need are sneakers, Speedo, any type of bike, and a t-shirt. Frankly that BS. What you need at a minimum to get started training and racing = Speedo - $30, running shoes - $45, bike - really cheep - $200, goggles - $5, 2 pair running shorts - $40, 2 pair socks that don't f-up your feet - $10, 3 running shirts/singlets - $45, access to a pool - $30 a month, helmet - $50, USAT 1 day - $9, race entry $40,

Thus he goes into the one or two tri specific stores in his area (we live in a second level city - thus we even have a tri specific store within 50 mile radius, pity the poor bastards who are in small markets because they are trying to shop wet suits at the boat and RV store or Wall-Mart) to try and get some info from a breathing persona and possibly pick up some essentials.

Third information hurdle appears, dealing with the store sales person. OK - I know this topic has been beaten dead on this forum recently, but let’s be frank - it is quite likely that the newbie will not be working with the seasoned, professional who owns the shop. Rather first encounter is more than likely with the young staffer who is far more interested in their own racing (thus the reason they are working in a tri shop at 24 yrs of age rather than humping it in corporate America) than serving a newbie client. The encounter too often is more like a tired, bothered, hungry wolf meeting a new born rabbit. Can you say - I smell blood, let get rid of this 40 year old clown w/cash posing as a want-to-be triathlete? Arrogance unabashed (hay you gotta be to make it to semi-elite level 24 year old triathlete working in the tri shop gathering just enough scratch to live on working as few hours as possible to accommodate your training schedule) v. old guy (40) with said cash and about 25 extra pounds wanting to out fit him self adequately to do the local sprint. The discussion grows ugly as the two warriors have no ability to communicate with one another. The buyer wants some good advice and information and to not have his wallet raped. The sales-athlete wants to ride him self of the annoying old fart, but also pull some moula out of said wallet waiting to be bent over the cash register and violated vigorously. Bottom line – the newbie’s, my friend, head explodes for information inadequacies and the feeling that he is completely stupid. Won’t even go into the rudeness factor or the notion that his very limited amount of confidence in being able to undertake and successfully complete is first tri have been shaken.

What occurs is that because of the information divide, the gap in product knowledge being disseminated widens in a way that a new person cannot make some reasonable product purchase decision. People either don’t buy or buy incorrectly, and quite possibly get hosed.

My lawyer friend and I had such an encounter at a LBS shop this past weekend. This is a great shop, the owner is top notch. The prices are fair, though not cheap. We go in to do some bike shopping. My friend and I talk in the car about bikes and actually had been at another shop two week before. He did some internet research. Unfortunately the owner was out, and I do not know him well enough to get any preferential attention. We meet the sales person and tell him we are looking for an entry tri bike – you know the conversation. This kid was actually remotely OK – I could see he smelled blood, but he was more seasoned at hiding it than some sales people I have encountered. I drop a few names and the fact that I am a paid member of the small, some what selective tri club the store partially sponsored. Also nicely mention/chit chat about a few other items in an effort to not impress the sales-athlete (self admitted that he is more interested in his bike racing than working) but to let him know there is a good, store loyal customer along for my friend’s buying ride. The discussion turns to buying a bike, and I back off in differential respect for all parties involved and in admission that I only have limited knowledge base about tri bikes. Lot of questions from my friend pours forth, standard sales pitch ensues, back and forth. What happens during all of this is that my friend keeps turning back to me when the sales guy is not around with a look of complete bewilderment and sticker shock.

Fourth information hurdle comes a few weeks into training. The newbie has gotten him self going. Feels good about training. Now he begins to meet the tri community. Hopefully the first few encounters are positive. People really wanting to help people type thing. But unfortunately this is not always the case. First off a lot of us (me included) are quite arrogant and intimidating, even when we are not trying to be. Real example, my wife has told me I scare people at the gym because of my training intensity and seriousness. Hay I am the nicest guy, willing to help anyone wanting to get into tris, willing to give my time, limited knowledge and effort to anyone free. I get super stoked talking to newbie about tris, what they can do and what the sport has done for me. But the truth is, even those of us in the sport even a limited amount of time do some serious shit in our training, and we do it seriously. That scares people. At least that is the view I have heard from some non-tri people. But this training is stuff that most folks really could do if they commit and try, but with out help they don’t see that potential in them selves. Unfortunate part is that the image projected by triathlete, which converts into mental information to the newbie, is one of unatainability.

Second point about the tri community, go on line and there is a lot of good, helpful, well caring and basic info. But it does come across pretty strong. I know we can not start all our posts with disclaimers like, “when I started run training I could only go 1 mile at 12 min. pace, but kept at it and now run a 48 min 10K – so stick with if new folks”. And heaven forbid a newbie enter a discussion group like Slowtwitch as one of their first forays on the web. I LOVE Slowtwitch, but we are very scary. I had some good tri experience under my belt when I first entered the forum, but the sarcasm and slashing remarks (which fit my personality well) kept me a bit at bay. A new person has no chance. True remark, my lawyer friend was checking out Slowtwitch and mentioned to me that not just the forum but also epic camp, bike reviews, et. al. info was eye opening and a lot to take in. This coming from a trial lawyer who could cut you to pieces.

Third remark on this topic deals with tri clubs. They are great, but like any ‘club’ they are inherently clickish. This is a sport that welcomes all in the door, but due to high testosterone levels (chicks included figuratively) you don’t often get a seat at the table until you prove your self. Now I know this is not unique to triathlons, but it is also not quite like the sewing circle either. True fact, the members in my tri club were all nice and cordial when I joined, but no one seemed real approachable or willing to ‘share the secrets’ until I smoked them all in the pool at a race. Once I did that I was in like flyn. Lucky I have the swimming back ground to do this early in my tri career. The real newbie with no prior athletic background stays on the fringe of the community for a long time.

The information to cost connection in this area relates to simply trying to get into the community. You can spend time, energy and money working to be part of the group that is supposed to give you, particularly the newbie, guidance, help and support. This takes a lot of resources how ever you define resources. But bottom line is that ultimately, in some way your resources are directly connected to money.

OK - I have really rambled on about this and could go further. There is sooo much more swimming in my messed up head!!!! But I hope, Tibbs, in some marginally intelligible way I have hit on some of your topics/questions. More than anything I think your notion that there is lost group of folks out there, and out there to me means both currently participating triathletes (most specifically the newbie sector, but none of us a immune from my rant) and those that want to get into our sport but see it as wholly un-doable, does hold merit.


http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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People who give back !
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Foolish Tri Guy] [ In reply to ]
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I love you. I just had to touch myself when I was reading your post. perfect. Can you have your frined email at customerjon@hotmail.com? I have some questions. If he is ok with it.

I want to respond so badly but I can't. I need more people to post. What did you think of what the beautiful fool said? What about what else has been posted? Go to the "retail" thread and read and post there too. Please peope open up. Please!

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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If one manufactures such a bike (i.e. round tubes, no frills but aggressive (steep) geometry) can it be cheap? The problem I see is simply related to economies of scale. The market for it will be extremely small, that is, triathlets who know what they want but can’t afford (financially or mentally) spending too much?

The demographic of triathlon is such that a high number of participants have too much disposable income as well as obsession with the sport and performance. Therefore, the demand to high end bikes is higher. This reduce such a market further. But then am I wrong? Is it that many of them don’t have a choice as a steep angled bike at a more basic level simply does not exist? I do agree with your observation regarding multisport bikes – what the hell is it for?

Pluto



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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Pluto] [ In reply to ]
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"Is it that many of them don’t have a choice as a steep angled bike at a more basic level simply does not exist? I do agree with your observation regarding multisport bikes – what the hell is it for?"

Perfect! Yes that is my point! People what do you thinkof Plutos post?

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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It sounds like you're looking for a round tubed aluminum frame with decent build quality that will fit you and have your desired seat angle for around $200. That bike is out there, no matter what size you are (within reason, 5'3-6'4") and no matter what geometry you want (again within reason, 73.5-78). If you are willing to spend some time looking around, you can find a new frame like that and if you want something now, now, now you can probably find something used today that can be at your door next week.

All you have to do is give up on the new models, pretty paint, exotic materials and expensive tubeshapes/designs. Check out house brands. Yeah, some of them are shit but some are good. Check out closeouts. There are plenty of retaillers/wholesalers with a couple of bare frames from three years ago that they will take whatever they can get for just to clear out the space. My tri bike is a Tequillo that I paid $125 for frame and fork. It was brand new, as in it had never been built up, but it was a '99 model.

Most triathletes want something new, cool and pretty in one neat package that they can drool on in the shop and take home and ride that day. Those are the bikes that cost bucks.



________________________________________________

Anyone who tells you they're as fast now as they were when they were 18...
sure wasn't very fast when they were 18.
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Pluto] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:

The demographic of triathlon is such that a high number of participants have too much disposable income


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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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I cannot speak for the masses, but I can speak for myself. I have owned many bikes over the years, and have probably come full circle. I started off getting a basic road bike, then a better one, etc. For tris, I started on a lovely purple steel road bike, eventually progressed through a couple of Cannondale R700's, and eventually got a Cervelo P2. Now I'm on an undersized Klein, and would happily be riding the exact bike I described, if only it existed. Over the years I've come to realise that it really isn't about the bike. I'm sure that there are plenty of others who think the same way that I do.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Rich] [ In reply to ]
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To Rich's point http://www.chucksbikes.com/store/fr041.htm



"your horse is too high" - tigerchik
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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just a quick comment reponding to your original post without having read all of the masses of replies. Your post mentions a perceived gap in the market between the Cervelo One and the C40 (or to stay with Cervelo we could use P3). You say "It's like there is a group who are not bike nut enought to see the C40 as a great buy ... but know that some coin is going to have to be laid down for good fit and performance." Well the short answer, is it not, is that between the One and C40 or P3 is the P2K! Its the 105-Ultegra-DA bike-buyer paradigm we see over and over again in posts like "should I buy P2k or P3?" and "Is it worth it to upgrade to DA?". The ultegra-equipped P2K is a fine bike priced between One and P3. It fills the market gap you talk about. Unfortunately it does nothing to quench the bike-envy of P2K owners or change the fact that, because of bike and other equipment costs and race entry fees and travel fees, triathlon is and likely will remain a high-cost sport.
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Foolish Tri Guy is right on the money. Triathlon is intimidating. Slowtwitch is intimidating. Bike shops are intimidating. Training information is intimidating. Goodness, I've been on Slowtwitch for two years now and I'm still intimidated. There is a huge communication gap out there. I've often thought about this, and I've used my own experience upon which to base my conclusions. I'm in my fourth season of multisport. I'm on my fourth bike. Part of that is due to much ambiguous information. I started out on an entry level road bike, then went to an entry level tri bike. The tri bike didn't fit, so I got another semi-entry level road bike. Then I thought I needed a steep seat angle, so I got a mid-level tri bike. I've read training plans, I've been to bike shops, I've talked to serious trigeeks, roadies, surfed the web, the whole bit. What did I finally do? I threw my hands up in and said, "Screw it." I finally sat down and figured out what I needed to do to enjoy the sport. Just the basics: a bike, shoes, couple changes of cycling/triathlon/running attire, and helmet. I have a HRM from when I was mainly a runner, and I did splurge on a nice trainer so I can ride when it's nasty outside. My tribike fits me well, and is equipped with 105. I would love to have Ultegra, Dura Ace, or better yet, Chorus. But I don't need that stuff. I probably don't need 105, but it seems to be a nice compromise in terms of quality v. price.

Training -- don't get me started there. I've read training plans that are labeled as beginner plans that I couldn't decipher with the help of special forces translators. It's crazy.

It seems like nothing is simple in this sport. I have simplified it for my own needs, but it has taken me nearly four years to figure out how to do that. I don't need one piece carbon aero bars. I don't need super duper stiff soled cycling/tri shoes. I don't need a $1200 set of 404's. I don't need aero drink systems, a wetsuit (sold mine last year), one piece tri suits, or any of that extra stuff.

What I need to do is train more. Just take the existing equipment I have and use it more.

I don't know if I'm going in the right direction with this. It's sort of turned into my own personal rant. I've had some negative experiences as far as buying gear goes, and much of the information out there (particularly in terms of training info) is ambiguous, confusing, and often times expensive. You can figure all this out on your own, but only after spending lots of money in the process. These lessons can be very costly. It's probably cost me around $4000 to come to these conclusions.

So much of our sport is marketing hype. Newbies can easily get caught up in all that hype, and they think they need all the aero doodads. I guess what is needed is concise, straightforward information for newbies and for those of us that are cheap. Can a tribike be had for well under $1000? Yes, but you've got to hunt for it. Someone has already mentioned Chuck's. Last year, he had a Wheeler tri bike, 105 through and through (except for the cranks), steep angle, the whole bit, for around $600 or $700. That's about as cheap as you can get in a complete tri bike. Several people on this forum bought these bikes and have raved about them. But many people wouldn't buy them because of the brand. Again, it comes down to marketing hype.

Triathlon needn't be complicated, but most newbies don't know this. You only find out when you've been in the sport for a long time.

I don't know if I've answered the question. I don't know if I'm in the ballpark. I'm not sure I know much of anything. Except that ours is a complicated sport only because we make it that way. Unfortunately, it takes a while to learn that lesson.

RP
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Blame the media, Blame the media!!! Oh wait thats what were supposed to do about our fear of crime. (AH!!!!! I'm actually picking things up from school)

If you think about it, it is market driven. Triathlon is a small market, like it or not, USAT has what 40,000 members? So for kicks lets say there are 250,000 triathletes in the US. Compare that to the number of cyclists, I can't even guess how many. Triathletes are niche market within a niche market. To make matter worse, the local tri club on their website claims that their median member income is $90k per year, I heard once that the average income for a triathlete is $60k per year. Basically people have too much $$ to spend, so it makes for sense for companies to market high end gear.

Now to rant of a different subject. I'm going to try to justify not having an entry level steep tri bike now. I'm sure everyone knows someone that has done just a couple tris and gotten out of it, or done more than a few and is riding a slack angle bike. Part of the problem is that triathletes as a whole haven't defined what they want, you have slowman preaching steep angles, Cobb pitching the "slam" (slacker than road angles), and then you have people riding road bikes. How many people do you think want to ride steep? I ride steep, 80+ degrees when hammering, I don't know many triathletes but of the ones I know, all of them ride shallow. So steep riders are a niche inside of niche inside of a niche group. Just because most of the people here are well accomplished triathletes preaching riding steep don't think that everyone or even 1/2 want to ride steep. I would venture to guess that 66% of triathletes ride at less that 76.5 degrees, so if their marketing in the right place I would say it is.

Do we need a cheap steep angled bike? Sure we do. Is there a real large scale market for it? Probably not. Your probably only taking 15,000 people in the US (~ 33% of 40,000 annual members) that want to ride steep, then consider atleast 1/2 make 60k a year, that leave 7,500 in the entire country, not exactly a large market. Then consider that probably less than 1/4 buy a buy every year, so now where only talkin 1800 people. Not exactly a market you can make $$ in by selling volume (the way you make $$ selling cheap).

Ok thats enough ranting and speculation for now.

On final thing maybe it just shows that those in the know think newbies should be on road bikes. KIDDING!!!!!!!!!! (please don't kill me, please)
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Mr. Tibbs] [ In reply to ]
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Is it really an issue of an overlooked demographic or the tendency to super size?



"your horse is too high" - tigerchik
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Pluto] [ In reply to ]
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Pluto

Don't inherently disagree with your theory, but as is often the problem with demorgaphicly drawn infrences you can never be sure if the behavior drove the market or the market dictated the behavior.

I look at this issue a bit differently. If you suffered through my previous post you might pick up my theory that triathlon is a small, fringe sport because of the pressure points caused by lack of information (or appropriate information differentiated by consumer group) and price/cost.

*** I admit there are many other reasons for the current nature of triathlon as a sport but don't intend to go into that here***

Thus only affluent folks are drawn into the sport. Admittedly this is a huge presumption and does not fit everyone, but the demographics of the average triathlete do point to higher than normal income.

Thus my notion that it is not the consumer and their ability to pay that drives up product costs, but rather it is the high product cost that drives only affluent people into triathlon.

Because the market for tri related products (bikes and wet suites for example) is relatively small from BOTH the producer and CONSUMER end I believe that the producer has the upper hand in this business relationship. Not untill some manufacture can under-cut their competitors so significantly so as to gain a huge share of the currently small market pie, or the market pie grows significantly larger, does the overall CPI basket of triathlon goods drop in price. If this can't occur we may not see the growth in the sport that I do believe there is the potential for.

I realize I am throwing a chicken and egg conundrum into the debate. But I do believe that until we are able to grow the participant base significantly, there will persist inherent dilemas related to the producer v. consumer issues in triathlon.

Anyone what to back/partner with me on starting a revolution in growing participation rates in triathlon AND establish a product producing company to meet these consumers needs???


http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Hid] [ In reply to ]
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>>Is it really an issue of an overlooked demographic or the tendency to super size?<<

HAHAHAHAHAHA

What the hell was the original question?

FWIW, I raced on the same bike for 13 years. Lot's of people I know did the same.

clm

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Overlooked demographic? [Hid] [ In reply to ]
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Ok 1 more post.

I agree with Hid. If you look around there are really not many cheap sports you can do yourself. I've done most of the sports Hid talked about and a couple more, all expensive.

All said and done, I've spent about as much on triathlons (minus the road bike, I would have bought anyways) as I have on other sports, skiing, ice hockey (considerable more here), paintballing, or cycling (road and mountain). When you compare the costs vs time for a sport. Tris aren't that expensive for the amount of time spent.

Ok, I'm done now, I swear I am.
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