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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [Danno] [ In reply to ]
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I have read Walsh's books and listened to tons of interviews and followed this like every other person here. I am no Lance apologist. But, Betsy Andreu very much comes off like a shrew and a woman who seeks the spotlight over and over and over and over. And telling the world what was said in privacy to a doctor by a friend is deplorable. Plead the 5th. It was not a grand jury. She got screwed, but her response to that was just as bad.

As far as LA, I can get past the doping, but his nasty, aggressive, mean behavior is unforgivable. Total A-hole. And I am not believing the entirety of his response - not doping past 2005, not getting out of the Tour de Suisse test. I want to like this guy, but I am having a hard time. The first time he was likened to Bernie Madoff, I brushed it aside, but I now realize he IS like him. He just wanted money/fame/success like Madoff and would screw anyone around him to get it.
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [sdmike] [ In reply to ]
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agreed.
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [lhpoulin] [ In reply to ]
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That private conversation was not private. In fact Betsy said it when questioned under oath. Its on public record in the deposition. So you perfer peaople lie under oath for Lancy...I see
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Kenney wrote:
That private conversation was not private. In fact Betsy said it when questioned under oath. Its on public record in the deposition. So you perfer peaople lie under oath for Lancy...I see


Not to mention she tried to excuse herself and Frankie and LA said "No, you guys can stay" and then rattled off his doping regimen. Hardly a "private" conversation.

edit to add: She couldn't take the 5th because there was no self-incrimination. She was asked, under oath, what she heard LA say. You don't get to take the 5th simply because you don't like the question or you want to protect someone.

Pesky details....

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Last edited by: Power13: Jan 18, 13 8:17
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [FJB] [ In reply to ]
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FJB wrote:
One thing that I do believe LA was truthful on was when he said that he "loves cycling," as an activity.


Who cares about that?

I know lots of people who love cycling as an activity and it's not that hard to be truthful about that.

Well, I did. :) That part just spoke to me, that, despite his behavior of lying and hurting others, the man does love to ride the bike, like many of us do. It will interesting to see how the non-cycling public will now view cycling and cyclists in light of LA's confession.
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [lhpoulin] [ In reply to ]
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Finally, people like you are amusing. Amusing because you're so mad that even on Lance's worst day of chemo he was faster than you. People tend to hate most the things that remind them of their own flaws. Your posts reek of that analysis.

Wow!

That might be the most inappropriate and misinformed post of the year, and we are only a few weeks into the new year!

Did you really write that?

What I find most fascinating about all this is not the did-he or didn't-he. There really was nothing dramatically new or revealing that came out last night. What is fascinating is the sides people take and the positions they take knowing what we know. Now that is interesting and revealing.

I've said this before, it's really hard to believe any of this. This is a man who lied under oath, and is conveniently, publically admitting to it now. The statute of limitations puts him beyond reach on this, but how can you now trust or respect someone like that, who seems to care so little about one of the most absolute and fundamental foundations of our justice and legal system.



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Jan 18, 13 8:40
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [Danno] [ In reply to ]
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Danno wrote:
lhpoulin wrote:
What happened to Andreu happens daily in the United States. Go dig up some dirt on your boss. Make him feel like your holding it over his head and see what happens. No one in this world is "clean."


Are you really this stupid? It's not that Lance just went after the Andreus and others . . . it's that he did it knowing they were telling the truth because the truth would hurt him. It's typical bully behavior magnified on an international level. Don't just deny their story, crush them and destroy them for daring to tell it. THAT is deplorable behavior. I get the reasoning for why he would do it, but that doesn't make Lance's actions right; nor does it make Betsy Andreu a "bitch" for standing up for the truth.

I would have a completely opposite opinion of Lance if the Andreus were blackmailing him with false information about his doping for their own benefit. Not only is there no evidence of this, however, the evidence that DOES exist proves the exact opposite.

lhpoulin wrote:
Furthermore, dragging a private conversation with a doc out into public on CNN is rather deplorable. She deserves no sympathy.


Explain, please. According to Betsy, Lance admitted to a doctor that he used PEDs. He then built his reputation and his empire on the false statement that he had never used PEDs. He then destroyed the Andreu's lives when they dared come forward to speak the truth. How exactly is it that Betsy's conduct is the "deplorable" conduct here?

Edited to add: If Lance wanted to preserve a medical privilege of his admissions to the doctor, he should have made Betsy and Frankie leave the room. The presence of third parties negates the privilege. I see nothing wrong with Betsy telling the world what was said in that conversation. If the doctor fudged Lance's records and is worried now that he might have his career damaged by having done so, then he should be. Assuming it happened, it was not a smart move on his part.

lhpoulin wrote:
Finally, people like you are amusing. Amusing because you're so mad that even on Lance's worst day of chemo he was faster than you. People tend to hate most the things that remind them of their own flaws. Your posts reek of that analysis.


Again, this is stupid rationalization and typical Lance fanboy "reasoning." Nobody is pissed that Lance is "faster" than them. They're pissed that this guy built his career on lies, deceit, cheating, and ruthless tactics to destroy anyone who knew the truth and dared to speak it. Does it happen a lot? Sure, but not so often on an international stage, and not so often with someone who becomes a national hero.

Get over yourself. You're taking the Lance apologist position to new heights of stupidity.

Perhaps why Lance felt slighted. Here were his best friends - Frankie and Besty. Lance has cancer. He thinks he is going to die. He trusts Frankie and Besty so much that while being treated to prevent his death, he allows them in the room while Lance tells the doctor everything he needs to so he can get the right treatment for his cancer. Betsy - who Lance thinks he can trust and who thinks is his friend - takes that information, breaches any sense of trust between "best" friends as Betsy herself claims they were - and stabs Lance in the back (and only once Lance has lots of money) by disclosing it to the public. I think most people would be pissed off and go on the attack in that type of situation. Not to mention this happened almost 20 years ago - in 1996. And more importantly - which she fails to mention - Frankie was doping before and independent of Lance. She's trying to turn in 15 minutes of playing victim into 20.
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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With how he believed it was necessary to dope for the 7 wins, there is no way he came out of retirement thinking he can beat Contrador in his prime while he himself road clean.
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Perhaps it has already been noted, but there was an eery similarity between his recorded responses of 8 years ago as he vehemently defended himself and his responses on the interview. Nothing changed except the words...his facial expressions, his posture, his inflection... all remained identical. The man has a poker face, I'll give him that.
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [masterslacker] [ In reply to ]
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masterslacker wrote:
I wonder if Oprah will ask tonight more about the non-failed drug tests. I mean seriously he was tested all during those tours and he said that he was doping during stages but yet not failing tests. Is it basically no test works? I mean he's taking EPO and they're testing for it and he's passing. No wonder he keeps saying it was just like air in the tires and water in the bottles and that he didn't think he was cheating.

.

They didn't take EPO during races that's why they never tested positive. They did blood boost during races and there still is no one off test for that either. The biological passport can show hints of doping but only with mulitple tests over a longer period of time (and the smart ones have probably already worked away around that).
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [Crazy Legs] [ In reply to ]
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Crazy Legs wrote:
I have read Walsh's books and listened to tons of interviews and followed this like every other person here. I am no Lance apologist. But, Betsy Andreu very much comes off like a shrew and a woman who seeks the spotlight over and over and over and over.

Interesting. I have a totally different take on it. To me, Betsy comes off like a cornered wolf. She may very well be seeking the spotlight, but from my perspective, it would appear that if this were true it's because she's motivated by the prospect of repairing the public damage Lance did to her and Frankie. It does not seem like she is doing it to further some other personal/financial gain. What would she really have to gain from that?

Crazy Legs wrote:
And telling the world what was said in privacy to a doctor by a friend is deplorable. Plead the 5th. It was not a grand jury. She got screwed, but her response to that was just as bad.

I don't get the "deplorable" nature telling the world what was said in privacy to a doctor. She was in a tough spot. She was under oath to say what happened. You'd rather she refuse to answer? I'm not sure that's how it works. I'll grant you that she squealed about what was said to saver her own and Frankie's skin, but I don't look at that as deplorable. Lance had already cast them aside. Why show loyalty to a guy like that?

Crazy Legs wrote:
As far as LA, I can get past the doping, but his nasty, aggressive, mean behavior is unforgivable. Total A-hole. And I am not believing the entirety of his response - not doping past 2005, not getting out of the Tour de Suisse test. I want to like this guy, but I am having a hard time. The first time he was likened to Bernie Madoff, I brushed it aside, but I now realize he IS like him. He just wanted money/fame/success like Madoff and would screw anyone around him to get it.

Totally agree.

''The enemy isn't conservatism. The enemy isn't liberalism. The enemy is bulls**t.''

—Lars-Erik Nelson
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [aerobike] [ In reply to ]
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You kidden? She just did not go and disclose. She was questioned under oath. Why lie? Guess the option of Lance telling the truth when trying to get 5 million is out of the question.
To the other poster about pleading the 5th...under what grounds.
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [Crazy Legs] [ In reply to ]
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Crazy Legs wrote:
I have read Walsh's books and listened to tons of interviews and followed this like every other person here. I am no Lance apologist. But, Betsy Andreu very much comes off like a shrew and a woman who seeks the spotlight over and over and over and over. And telling the world what was said in privacy to a doctor by a friend is deplorable. Plead the 5th. It was not a grand jury. She got screwed, but her response to that was just as bad.

As far as LA, I can get past the doping, but his nasty, aggressive, mean behavior is unforgivable. Total A-hole. And I am not believing the entirety of his response - not doping past 2005, not getting out of the Tour de Suisse test. I want to like this guy, but I am having a hard time. The first time he was likened to Bernie Madoff, I brushed it aside, but I now realize he IS like him. He just wanted money/fame/success like Madoff and would screw anyone around him to get it.

I'm going to restrain myself from using the choice words I really want to.

First of all, pleading the 5th only stops you from incriminating yourself with testimony. Betsy did nothing wrong and thus couldn't stay silent.

And even if she could have - why is it any better to lie for a cheat so he can profit in a lawsuit? You'd prefer if she also lied just so Lance could profit from one of his many suits intended to silence and profit?
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [trichappy] [ In reply to ]
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Perhaps it has already been noted, but there was an eery similarity between his recorded responses of 8 years ago as he vehemently defended himself and his responses on the interview. Nothing changed except the words...his facial expressions, his posture, his inflection... all remained identical. The man has a poker face, I'll give him that.

It's the thing that perhaps worked best in his favour. He's always been an extraordinarily gifted public speaker. No matter the situation, the pressure, the issue, he comes across, in a positive and plausible manner.

Look at those interviews with Floyd and Hamilton. They can barely string together a sentence!

I seem to recall, that he even offered to take a lie detector test, and be asked if he had taken PED's. He must have ice-water running through his veins.

Recall the exchange with Paul Kimmage at the Press Conference from the Tour of California during the comeback. That whole thing has rich irony to it now. Kimmage really put Armstrong on the spot, but Lance never missed a beat! Cut Kimmage down to size, and looked like a hero coming out of it.



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [sdmike] [ In reply to ]
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sdmike wrote:

They didn't take EPO during races that's why they never tested positive. They did blood boost during races and there still is no one off test for that either. The biological passport can show hints of doping but only with mulitple tests over a longer period of time (and the smart ones have probably already worked away around that).

Yeah that would make sense but it's hard to discern from what he's saying that they're disposing of syringes during the Tour but it was probably the 99 one. I just wish Oprah would ask more about how he got away with it especially with everyone on the planet it seems trying to prove it and watching 24/7. But he probably wouldn't answer since it involves talking about everyone who helped make sure they never got caught.

Plus like others have said she didn't press him on how he wasn't doped in 09/10 and yet they played the clip that it was impossible for him to have that blood profile at that time. I guess he's just denying that because it was so recent and it's not past the statue of limitations for various crimes.

Now that's it's really absolutely official, I wonder how this all plays out in a few years.
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
The statue of limitations puts him beyond reach on this...

Is that the opposite of the Statue of Liberty? ;)

-----
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
Which is probably why I was registering 59.67mi as I rolled into T2.

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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [FJB] [ In reply to ]
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FJB wrote:
Wow, just wow.

Lance pursued her for over 10 years. Her family lost jobs and financial compensation. She was personally insulted and vilified. She had the courage to stand up and tell the truth. Lance made her life a living hell for 10 years. And you think she wants 15 minutes of fame? Really? You should read up a little on what her and Frankie went through, and how they had to survive.


Comments like yours just make internet forums look like a huge mistake.



Thank you for your voice of reason. Some of the responses here are really hard to believe. The fact that there are people attacking Betsy and standing by Lance is just hard to fathom and goes to show you the power of celebrity.


I didn't see her immediate response on AC360 yet (and I don't think we need to call her a bitch regardless of how she responded), but I did hear both her and Frankie separately have interviews with Mike Greenberg & Colin Cowherd (ESPN guys together today) and WOW what a difference between how they handled it. Betsy starts out by saying "Hello, is this the Mike and Mike guys?" and then blasts into them. Blaming them. It was pretty inappropriate. Frankie was all class in his interview.
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [FJB] [ In reply to ]
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FJB wrote:
I never thought Lance wasn't doping, and I'm still waiting for the entire rest of the peleton to own up. A drop in the ocean, we've got juniors getting nailed, masters getting nailed. System is broken, and the rewards are too high.


But Lance could do something about the problem. He can go into details about how the system works, he could name names and talk about how the team was able to know when the out of competition testing occurred, how the doctors and trainers were involved etc.


If Lance really wanted to do what is right for the sport he could provide details now that he has retired. Anything else is just more self-serving crap designed to get Lance back into competition.

Completely true, but are you implying that this is what the Oprah interview should have included? Also not sure the UCI is interested in hearing any of this...

Anyone interested in my new categories for cycling - stock and modified?
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [Eppur si muove] [ In reply to ]
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Is that the opposite of the Statue of Liberty? ;)

Thank you. Noted and corrected.





Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Finally, people like you are amusing. Amusing because you're so mad that even on Lance's worst day of chemo he was faster than you. People tend to hate most the things that remind them of their own flaws. Your posts reek of that analysis.

Wow!

That might be the most inappropriate and misinformed post of the year, and we are only a few weeks into the new year!

Did you really write that?

What I find most fascinating about all this is not the did-he or didn't-he. There really was nothing dramatically new or revealing that came out last night. What is fascinating is the sides people take and the positions they take knowing what we know. Now that is interesting and revealing.

I've said this before, it's really hard to believe any of this. This is a man who lied under oath, and is conveniently, publically admitting to it now. The statue of limitations puts him beyond reach on this, but how can you now trust or respect someone like that, who seems to care so little about one of the most absolute and fundamental foundations of our justice and legal system.

Hardly. Unless you can somehow confirm with 100% accuracy that the person I'm replying to does not, in fact, feel that way you can hard say that my reply was "the most inappropriate and misinformed post of the year." I've never seen so many grown men beat their breasts so shamelessly in one place before.
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [dwesley] [ In reply to ]
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Ok. Let me re-phrase/back-pedal. Perhaps she couldn't have pleaded the 5th. What I am saying is that, after hearing all accounts, Betsy comes off poorly. To me, she seems to have gone out of her way to be in the spotlight. That is my perception. It is not better to lie, but it seems that she went out of her way to tell people that Lance doped. Maybe this is Lance's ruse getting the desired effect on cycling fans like me. But, the interviews I hear with Betsy make her sound hysterical at times.
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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So I have read a lot of the Lance threads and some of the transcripts of his Oprah interview, but still don't understand why he said if he had not come back then we would not be here today. What did his comeback have to do with all of this coming out instead of staying hidden? Does it have something to do with Floyd not being happy about his comeback?
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [lhpoulin] [ In reply to ]
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Hardly. Unless you can somehow confirm with 100% accuracy that the person I'm replying to does not, in fact, feel that way you can hard say that my reply was "the most inappropriate and misinformed post of the year." I've never seen so many grown men beat their breasts so shamelessly in one place before.

It's one thing to have a good debate and discussion, but demeaning and degrading other people's position and views is sort of like . . . :)



Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Official Oprah Lance interview live thread [J_R] [ In reply to ]
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"I didn't see her immediate response on AC360 yet (and I don't think we need to call her a bitch regardless of how she responded), but I did hear both her and Frankie separately have interviews with Mike Greenberg & Colin Cowherd (ESPN guys together today) and WOW what a difference between how they handled it. Betsy starts out by saying "Hello, is this the Mike and Mike guys?" and then blasts into them. Blaming them. It was pretty inappropriate. Frankie was all class in his interview."

This is what I'm talking about
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