I think we really need to worry about more pressing public health issues. Like arsenic in the drinking water. A half dozen or more people might die of this over the next 20 years. Also, mercury in salmon will probably wipe out another dozen in the same period of time.

There is no reason to worry about obesity, which is shortening the lives of millions since there is no deep pocket to sue like the tobacco companies. Oh, wait, I forgot about McDonalds. Maybe our lawyers will save us again.

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

hid that is too funny. the euro babe needs a cigarette, tho. :)

have ya'll seen ' the trilets of belleville" yet. best cycling related movie ever bar none, and great fat-american commentary/imagery. go see it.

This is actually an epidemic IMO. One out of every ten deaths this year will be linked to obesity related health problems (diabetes, heart disease, etc.)

With the baby boomers getting older there will be tremendous strains on the health care system. I'm a baby boomer myself (b. 1951) and am flatly disgusted with how many people of my generation have let themselves go like that. Many of my old high school chums are now if not obese, most of them are over weight and don't exercise other than the occassional round of golf.

What's even of more concern that the boomers is their kids. In some areas 40% of teenagers are over weight or obese. A recent study reported that American teenagers are the fattest on the planet. At least when us boomers were teenagers only about 10% were over weight. So what will the future generation be like by the time they hit middle age.

The reason for this dramatic increase is because of a sendentary lifestyle and high fat junk food. The average person only needs about 2000 calories a day to function normally. That's as much as is in one McDonald's burger, fries and milkshake meal.

This problem of obesity would be easy to fix - exercise more and eat less. It's that simple.

You can't force people to exercise more, but fast food manufacturers could be forced to produce healthier fast food. Some people may disagree, but I'm all in favor of legislation forcing the fast food industry to clean up their act because they are harming society. If an individual is harmful to society, he goes to jail. In the case of the fast food industry they should be forced to follow certain guidelines IMO.

"Oblivious" is the right word. I was talking to my mom the other day, who is 5' 1" and weighs 130-135. Granted, she has already lost 10-15 lbs. in the last two years, but I told her she still had a ways to go if she really wanted to be healthy. She insisted that she'd be "skin and bones" if she went much lower. I didn't have the nerve to tell her that the Stillman Scale recommends a weight of 105 lbs. for a 5' 1" female (100 lbs. for the first 5 feet, 5 lbs. for each additional inch. Men get 110 lbs. for the first 5 feet and 5.5 lbs. for each additional inch. These are for NON-ACTIVE people, too.) At least her doctor has recommended she get down to 125, but she thinks that's impossible.

I don't know what the answer is. My wife and I try to instill in our daughters the concepts of good nutrition and consistent exercise, but there is so much contradictory marketing out there ("Super Size" this-and-that) that I hope our message sticks.

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Dave in WI
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"What you once were isn't what you want to be anymore" - Wilco

Hid,

That is just too funny. Unfortunately, it's also just too true.

"contradictory marketing out there ("Super Size" this-and-that)"

I saw a thing on TV the other night how clothes manufacturers are now changing their sizes so that American women "don't feel bad about themselves". They're changing sizes so that for example a former size 9 is now a size 6, etc.

Now that's one way of addressing the obesity problem.

"What would you folks do to fix this problem?"

Nothing. Nothing can be done. People will be fat.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Bravo Hid! Great picture.

Should people who meet whatever definition we pick for "obese" pay significantly higher life, health, or Medicare premiums?

Even though i think most fast food is disgusting, and watch every oz. of food that goes into my body obsessively, i still dont think that forcing McDonalds to make healthier food is the correct course of action. While you can educate people about health, you cant force them to make good decisions, the freedom to choose, even if you make the wrong choice IMO, is a freedom that needs to be protected. I wonder how far this trend of protecting people from themselves will go. People smoke, blame tabacoo industry, people are fat, blame McD's, blame anybody but yourself. I used to be fat and out of shape. three years ago i couldnt run a mile, not that i ever would, but even if my life depended on it, i dont think i could have. Now a half-marathon doesnt even phase me, i do that or more every weekend. My bodyfat has gone from 30% to <7%. I can blame everyone in the world for my previous condition. I knew McD's was fattening, i knew not exercising was bad, but i was lazy, i blame myself. I dont think it was big businesses fault, or the governments responsibility to get me into shape, its my body, its my problem, its my choice. Some argue that since the govt. pays the medicare bills, that it should be able to force people to live healthy lives (ex. tabacco), but i dont think the govt. ever has that right. I do think that the government should encourage exercise and a balanced diet, but i think it should be through incentive programs, such as tax breaks for people who run or bike to work, or exercise (through keeping track of hours at the gym, i have no idea how to track people who exercise outside), or tax breaks on equipment designed for exercise (ex. that new P3 would be tax deductable). These are just my thoughts on the matter. Why are americans fat? because they are lazy. Wanna change that? encourage change in the culture, dont force it.

"Should people who meet whatever definition we pick for "obese" pay significantly higher life, health, or Medicare premiums?"

What will that do? Won't stop people from being fat. They'll just drop thier coverage.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

OK, so maybe the Europeans do have something to teach Americans after all.

oh yeah, if this makes any difference, I'm part of that younger generation, Gen Y, that everyone seems to think is doomed. I had the childhood weight problem, and in my late teens, early 20s (now 21), i decided to get in rediculous shape. Just because bad decisions were made in the past doesnt mean they cant be changed.

I have photoagraphic evidence from Mardi Gras that disputes your findings. There are plenty of hot chicks out there, having more fatass guys around only helps your chances.

With any luck most of the obese will dip into an even unhealthier diet, and die sooner.

i completely agree with everything you said, except that the government should try to change cultue. i think the government should stay out of it. people choose to eat what they will, and the government can't tell anyone what to put in their mouth. but, we should not have to pay for the medical expenses of some lazy fatass, which we would indirectly be doing if universal healthcare is approved. if one feels charitable, and sympathetic to the cause of the fatass, then pay the bill for his endless supply of pills, surgeries, and doctor visits, but i am not sympathetic. so i should not pay. down with government intervention in the obesity crisis.
bob

Man, don't I know it! I have t-shirts from high school, size Large, that are smaller than some of the Mediums I buy now. I also work in the Promotional Products industry, dealing with a lot of clothing vendors, and everything is ENORMOUS! They like to use clever catch-phrases like "generous cut" or "oversized for freedom of movement", but what they're really saying is "we know you've always worn a Large, so here's a shirt two sizes bigger that we're calling a Large so you don't feel fat".

The problem, IMHO, is the culture of making everyone feel good about themselves, not hurting feelings. I'm not saying we should be rude or mean, but if someone is obese, it doesn't do that person any good to be told "Oh, you look fine. You're just big boned."

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Dave in WI
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"What you once were isn't what you want to be anymore" - Wilco

Probably not.

A recent scientific report stated that for the last hundred years life expectancy was going up. Now, with all the smokers, fat (young) people and sedentary lifestyle the general life expectancy is going down. So, if we (triahletes wtih a healthy lifestyle ) will all stay for 100 years on this planet some fat smokers will have to die very young !?!

Frank

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I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.

People already pay more for life insurance if they are overweight. Most people don't realize it but most companies have a premium rate for people that fit into a certain height/weight ratio.

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"which is like watching one of your buddies announce that he's quitting booze and cigarettes, switching to a Vegan diet and training for triathalons ... but he's going to keep snorting heroin." Bill Simmons, ESPN

here's the problem though. You say the gov't shouldn't pay for problems stemming from obesity because it is a problem caused by your own actions. But that is true for everything. Everything is bad for you, and can cause medical bills, which under universal healthcare, the government has to pay for. Cycling, because it is no-impact, can lead to severe osteoporosis. So should the gov't not pay for the treatment of that because it is self-induced. Same for the string of overtraining injuries ive been plagued with. Life is hazardous, its survival rate is zero. If the gov't is going to pay for healthcare, it is going to pay for a lot of things caused by people's actions. It has 3 choices: it can force people to live healthy, it can do nothing, or it can educate the population and encourage and teach them how to care for themselves. I dont think it has the right to tell people what to do, but I do think that a proactive course of action would be the best, given that education can people make better decisions, but allow them free will to make whatever decision they want, even if its bad. Tabacco is a great example. Smoking is bad for you. The tabacco companies were spending millions to encourage a culture that smoked. In the tabacco settlements, a lot of the money went towards educating people on the dangers of smoking, and the benefits of quitting. Now people are educated enough to make an informed decision, and the culture has changed such that smoking is not a "cool" thing to do, and thus less people choose to do it. Such education on the effects of eeating right, and how to eat right could encourage people to make good decisions, which would lead to better lives, but still allow them the freedom to choose to eat unhealthily.

I'd like to know who stillman is and how he came up with that scale. According to those calculations I should be 181 pounds for my height, which is laughable considering my weight is generally 205 and my body fat is pretty damn low. Maybe he's talking about people who have never stepped foot in a gym to lift weights?

I don't know where you got the statistics of life expectancy going down. In America and Western Europe, this is simply not the case. Life expectancy continues to go up, and go up rapidly. It would be going up even more but for obesity. All the other health scare panics we read about in the press are insignificant scare stories perpetuated by people with an agenda.

Life expectancy, and just about every other measure of prosperity is in a never ending trend upward. For a fabulous book on this subject read The Progress Paradox by Easterbrook.

The paradox he refers to, of course, is that people are unhappy and think things are getting worse in the face of undreamed of prosperity. Great book.

Regulating food, etc is just throwing a band-aid on the issue. You have to find out why people eat themselves fat, and then try and treat the cause. Treating the symptoms never cures the disease. If you regulate one type of food, people will just gourge on another.

We are the country of excess and no restraint. Start there.

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-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

"i think the government should stay out of it."

Seems to me that the situation in the USA is different from that of other western democracies in as much as that you're the only country with private based health coverage. I'm in Canada and like most other countries other than the USA, our health care is primarily government provided - funded of course by the tax payers.

When the health care system is government provided and funded by tax payers there is a stronger reason IMO for the government to step in and legislate the fast food industry, etc to clean up. A counter arguement could be made that unfit, unhealthy tax payers should be taxed an extra premium since they are more likey to cost the rest of the tax payers more money thru the health care system. AFAIK neither of these things have yet been done in Canada, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it happen in some of the European countries first.

Also seems to me that as part of the culture Americans are more willing to allow big business/corporate sector to get away with more crap in the name of "freedom of choice" than most other democracies are willing to do.

I'm still in favor of regulating the fast food industry as one of the solutions.

no, he is right, its the projected life expectancy for the generation that is growing up (adolesents today) for which the life expectancy is going down. This is merely a guess on what will happen, but is extrapolated from recent obesity trends and environmental pollutants set against the rate of medical breakthroughs. Its a pretty widely accepted veiwpoint, and is one of the foundations of behavioral medicine.