camera perspective has a lot to do with these shots...



that could easily be the 7m b/w each rider.

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

no camera perspective here... I was there, it was unreal.. I saw the pack of pros coming the other way, the were ALL together. The worst thing about it is that the motorcycles were right next to them and didn't do anything about it. I did see them pull one guy off the rode up queen K. an age grouper.

oh...nm then



irony is that it wasn't even that windy...

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

LOL!!!

Yes, it could be the photo, but that looks pretty bad.....

Makes Faris's victory even more impressive!

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Are all of the motorcycles drafting officials? Maybe one was a camera for NBC. Either way having 3-4 officials not able to enforce the rules any better than that is a travesty and as Rappstar said it makes Faris' victory all the more impressive.

Like I have often repeated, noone likes to spoil someone else day so alot of rules get bypassed for the AG's, pisses me off, if there is a rule uphold it or I will bring my fins to the next race.
As a side issue I have been thinking of cheating deliberately in a race , but posting how I will do it on here weeks in advance, I meen really cheating, fins, drafting partners and also a run buddy and ipod and caffine. now if I dont get banned or DQ'd I think it would stands a a realy good view of the crappy state of our sport today?

Looks like a legal group. It's not a "no drafting" race -- it's a "no following closer than two and a half bike lengths" race. If you're in an M-dot race and you don't move up to be about 12-15 feet behind the wheel of the bike in front of you, you are conceding a huge advantage to your competitors.

You can be a pollyanna, or you can follow the same rules that everyone else does. It's smarter to race smart, rather than complain about everyone else. Especially if they're not even in your bracket.

If you cheat then you are the one that has to live with yourself each day...rules or no rules people will still cheat.

That is the reality these days.

At mile 90, I caught up to a pack of 30 cyclists all drafting like crazy.. I put a sprint on to pass them all in one shot, and then at about mile 95 I caught up to a pack of about 20... all were blatantly drafting. In the first 30miles it was impossible not to draft with the congestion, but after that there wasn't really an excuse.

I need to learn to swim.

Trev

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Trev Williams
http://www.thedoctrine.ca

I was there last year when it was really windy and even more benefit could be gained. Whenever a train like that came by, I just rolled over to the nice wide paved shoulder and let them do their thing. I race for myself and against others but would regret the day immensely if any success that I had came from jumping on the tail of a pack and cheating. Some people obviously have the win at all costs/everyone else is doing it attitude but since I'll never be in the running to take $110 000 from Faris, I'd rather finish 18th in M35-39 like I did last year knowing I raced it clean and fair then maybe move up to 12th or so due to blatant cheating. Last year was my first time in Kona and I was told by a couple of friends that had done it that I had to decide early on if I was going to cheat and draft like many do or get off to the side of the road and let them pass .... to me the decision was a no-brainer.

Marisol, while you were in Kona, "your were not there". You cannot possibly judge the difference in spacing between riders when going the other way with a 75 kph speed differential. No friggin way. You gotta be going the same way as them and then be moving with them for at least 15 seconds as you are actually allowed to enter and leave the draft zone which the guys are allowed to do.

In theory, these guys could be 7 m apart and riding a paceline, with the front guy rolling off the front after his 10 second "pull" and roll to the back, shielding the oncoming riders from the wind as he pulls back. This would be totally legal. In fact, I am surprised, they don't actually plan it out better :-)

[reply]camera perspective has a lot to do with these shots...
that could easily be the 7m b/w each rider.[/reply]

The distance between the shadows on the ground removes the parallax effect and many of those riders are well within 7m of each other.

Again, it is amazing how some want to second guess the rules. If the rules say X distance behind, I would attempt to stay X behind. If one really wants to be a man on the race, why be a wimp and use aero bars? Or a carbon frame. Why do so many find it so easy to judge others? They would probably be better off spending effort trying to lead by example, since none of us have empty closets!!



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I don't have any problem with a pace line forming where everyone stays x meters apart according to the rules and as Dev said, I'm surprised that more people don't try to do this. It has nothing to do with throwing away the aero bars but everything to do with obeying the rules as they are set out in the sport. However, last year I was passed by a number of people that were riding about 1m off the back wheel of the rider in front of them. That is not keeping within the rules and leads to more cheating as this line goes by someone and they decide to hop onto the back (and go 1m rather than 10m) rather than lose ground to the cheaters.

Allan, I totally agree if folks are not following the rules, and 1 meter is wrong, and yes, I see drafters in races all the time. My comment was to folks who say the existing rules are cheating.



Dave

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Perspective is always a very difficult thing to calculate from a photo, but if you extrapalate a line from the front 2 shadows to the broken lines in the middle of the road you can see that the distance between the shadows is closely equivalent to the length of the line plus the space before the start of the next line, so if someone knows the length of the white line plus the gap then you can tell the distance between the front 2 cyclists.

From memory I think here in Aus, the white lines are 3m long with a 3m gap so the 2 are roughly 6m apart



Aus_Tinman

And the rule is 7m from front wheel of the front rider to front wheel of the 2nd. So if your bike is only 1 m long you only have to maintane 3m.

Thats correct. Everyone seems to think they should be seeing 7m from the back of one bike to the front of the next but thats completely wrong. Those riders look to be riding within the rules (~3-3.5m from back of one bike to front of the next).

ot

When I was going out on the bike, these guys were heading back....I couldn't wait to see someone heading in the other direction and when they did, they didn't look like they were drafting from my perspective where I was anyways!!



http://www.ironm4n.blogspot.com

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http://www.konashelley.blogspot.com

Huh?

My bike measures about 1.6 meters, so that means the bike behind me needs to be 7 - 1.6, or back 5.4 meters. (Are you thinking the distance between bikes needs to be about 3 - 3.5 bike lengths?)

Great Race Trev, me and Danno were checking you out and i seen u finish.................

Trevor

So, I assume that this is happening at SOMA? Your the one on the P3 with the Javilin jersey, right? ;)



Hope your season has been going well since Vineman. See you in two weeks.



Jeromy

"you are conceding a huge advantage to your competitors"

That is such a typical excuse you hear from you guys all the time.

But you despise drafting, right?

Hypocrites!!!!

But that how it works for most of you, I guess. Sleep well!

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adrialin

(BOMK, racing drug and supplement free since 1985)