I think it was Iris Murdoch's husband who, when told how nice a man he was, pointed out that being nice is easy, it's being good that is difficult...

If ye shall live by the sword, ye shall die by the sword!

Knowingly taking a banned substance to enhance ones performance in a field of competition because of "Enormous pressure to win," is not an explanation but an excuse. For anyone who commits to a lifestyle of fitness for monetary gain has their fans, peers and idolizers to answer to. The use of illegal or banned substances in some societies and cultures in this world are subjected to more severe penalties. To excuse or to take lightly that a "professional" athlete has used banned substances to win is wrongful. In order for the sport of Triathlon to have world wide legitimacy and validation, ALL National federations MUST be on the same page to eliminate performance enhancements.

Some will cry for lighter penalties, some will complain the penalties are not severe enough. Others will say, "Make an example!" In our sport their are rules and these rules are NOT made to be broken.

What other sport can an amatuer athlete participate in the same event with the world's best?

"How did YOU arrive at:
'Actually the score is now 3 positive, 1 negative (the Olympics test was initially ruled negative).'

Using other people's counting: Vuelta A - Positive, Vuelta B - Positive, Olympic A, first evaluation - Negative, Olympic A, second evaluation - Positive. So 3 positive, 1 negative.

From cyclingnews.com quoting the WADA report,"The sample, taken on August 19, was analysed at the Athens Doping Control Laboratory (DCL) and an analysis report signed by the lab director on August 22 registered the A sample as negative, but with an annotation stating that the sample was "suspicious for a blood transfusion."

Sehr interessante Debatte zwischen Francois und Crashing Girl! Ein Kampf erster Rang. Ich aber stimme Francois zu. Total logisch. Ich finde diese Affaere als nur Tragoedie, bestimmt fuer Nina Kraft, und unserer Sport auch. Aber fuer mich, als Triathlet, es aendert nichts. Naechste wochenend, ein 10K, dann ein paar woche erholungspause, dann faengt das Base wieder anneu an. Wie jedes Jahr. Und immer 110% jeder Dreikampf herausgeben. Und immer Clean.



Interesting debate between Francois and CG. I agree with Francois' logic however. Find this entire affare a tragody, especially for Nina Kraft, and the sport as a whole. Doesn't change anything for me though. Next week is a 10k, then a couple weeks off then start base again. Like every year. And always give 110% in every Triathlon. And always clean.

Heading out now for a 6.3 mile run, with 5 x 1/2 mile at 6:30 pace. Nothing has changed for me.

Conrad

http://www.xtri.com/article.asp?id=1331

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"You're guaranteed to miss 100% of the shots you never take" - Wayne Gretzky

Danke VT.

Und immer Clean. Ja genau! Gut Arbeit

on a purely pragmatic note:
from the Velonews article,
"One of the limitations of the test is that it can only detect the recent use of EPO. Three days after an injection, those differences can no longer be detected. That shortcoming generally makes it difficult for testers to detect the use of a drug that has benefits that last up to three weeks."

I suspect smarter EPO users than Nina aren't getting caught. With $100k and my reputation on the line, I think I'd do a bit more research before taking the drug.. and the test for EPO is well-known. 30 seconds on Google gets:
http://www.wada-ama.org/docs/web/research_science/epo/urine-EPO-report.pdf
Bizarre.

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"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview

OK, here it is, for the last time.

One positive test includes both postive A and B samples. Tyler's Vuelta sample was positive. Tyler's Olympic sample was inconclusive since the B test could not be read. By itself the A test means nothing and Tyler keeps his medal. However, it does further raise the index of suspicion and given a postive test at the Vuelta, I'm pretty convinced he's guilty.

Final score: 1 positive, 1 inconclusive.

Verdict: that's up to you

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Tyler also returned three positive tests before the Tour. The UCI wrote him a letter pointing out the "abnormal" characteristics of his blood. Apparently he kept doing it.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Nina is guilty of theft: She stole the rightful celebration of Badmann’s fifth Ironman Championship and our talk of that. Review all the posts to this thread… little or no mention of Badmann.



Nina has stole the lime light from Normann’s awesome race… instead of talking it up about “you can win – you can’t win” Kona on the bike, we are talking the morality of drugs in our sport.



Nina has stole the immense pride of a whole triathlon nation (Germany) held when they scored the world championship double. Remember one of the first persons to congratulate her at the end of her race was Ironman Germany’s race director Kurt Denk. Nina and Stefan Holtzner are the poster children for that race. Ask him how Nina’s positive test will impact him in securing a new title sponsor.



Nina has cheated her sponsors. She was afforded an opportunity to make a living because her sponsors. How quick are they to put up dollars/Euros the next pro phenom that comes around… she has cheated other pros.



Nina has bitten the hand that feeds her. The Ironman brand has afforded her and many other pro’s an opportunity to make a living… Love or hate them… the World Triathlon Corp has provided many of us a vehicle to achieve a dream… provided us with venue to play out that dream. In Nina’s case, the WTC has provided her with the brand recognition, nurtured over the years that has allowed her to play and make a good living… she has spit in their face.



I think Ironman history will prevail… The Mark’s, Dave’s, Scott’s, Greg’s, Paula’s, Peter’s, Natasha’s, Heather’s and Lori’s of our sport will be remembered long after a Nina.

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Shawn Skene

Sehr interessante Debatte zwischen Francois und Crashing Girl! Ein Kampf ersten Ranges. Ich stimme Francois aber zu. Total logisch. Ich empfinde diese Affaere als nur Tragoedie, bestimmt fuer Nina Kraft, und auch unseren Sport . Aber fuer mich, als Triathlet, aendert es nichts. Naechstes Wochenende, ein 10K, dann ein paar Wochen Erholungspause, dann faengt die Basis wieder neu an. Wie jedes Jahr. Und immer 110% bei jedem Dreikampf geben. Und immer Clean.


Not bad ! But it really needed some polish (as does my English). This lesson was free....hope you repay me some time.

I also disagree very strongly with your attitude. Our sport needs testing for Ironman athletes. Up to now, only ITU athletes are controlled in training by NADA (at least in Germany). Ironman athletes could do whatever they wanted. I know that Mr. Hellriegel and Mr. Sultan voluntarily get tested in training. The majority does not. This has to change, otherwise the public will despise professional Ironman athletes as cheaters and on the same level as professional cyclists. Do you really want to be placed in this category?

I do not race IM anymore (as I mentioned I aged quite a bit racing for a couple of years-maybe because I did not do "maintenance"), but I already know that it will taint the sport, all distances and all athletes (pro or not), if we don't get a handle on this.

VegasTrilete, if you race pro, I would urge you to campain for voluntary testing in training. Your attitude is exactly what is missing on the professional level: Responsibility and Initiative. Just pumping the chest and proclaiming "I race clean" does not really increase credibility, don't you agree?

It is also upon the athletes to bring this process forward.

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adrialin

(BOMK, racing drug and supplement free since 1985)

That takes away her personal responsibility. If she has admitted it, there's nothing else to look at. She may have been "assisted" but she made the final decision.

Unfortunately Mrs. Kraft seemed not to have "budgeted" the good sports-medicine "counceling", that is readily available around here

(as your post clearly demonstrates:-).

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adrialin

(BOMK, racing drug and supplement free since 1985)

Olaf got tested quite a few times out of competition, at zofingen, in DTU races, so I think this is done already...

the problem is that the WTC as a business is not doing any tests, USAT does them...

an other problem is that there is no harmonization of the testing protocols in Sport, and in different countries...

some countries give 1yr ban (germany until this year), others 3 (France) then it depends on the product etc....

She stole from every one of the female pros who raced that day. They had to race their entire day knowing how far out in front Nina was.

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A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes.
- Mark Twain

Thanks for correcting my german. I really mean that. German is not widely spoken here in Vegas so about the only practice I get is reading it on-line and as you saw, occasionally writing.

My point is that, whether testing becomes mandatory for pros or not, it doesn't change anything for me or for that matter, the vast majority of age-groupers who have been at it for awhile. The same thing would apply to the majority of amateur cyclists. We do the sport because we love the game.

No, I am not a pro. In fact, I only rank at around the 30 percentile in the USAT national rankings. Again, who cares. It's all about the game and after a race, to say to oneself, "I left it all out there."

Yes I hope that testing becomes mandatory for pros at all races. No one can logically argue against it. As far as age-groupers, it would be cost prohibitive for testing, yet it is there as well.

Years ago, I would take sodium phosphate (a legal substance) that Coach Friel in his book recommended. Only twice a year for IMs. Decided that violated the "code." Have seen evidence of PEDs at local races. This past September did the Kokopelli Half Iron. A hot and very tough hilly course. This one local girl, who has never been close to me in any race through the years, late in the run, runs down me and my training buddy, who is a good runner. During the bike, there was this bodybuilder riding a road bike with a backpack. Saw him for 2 of the 3 loops. Weighed around 250 lbs. yet riding up the grades like they were nothing. Had to go to red-line to hold him off on the third lap (just because). After the race, saw the girl with her boyfriend. You guessed it, the bodybuilder. Put two and two together. The backpack held supplies for the girlfriend. I don't doubt that they "rode" together too during part of the bike. Me and my buddy are convinced she juiced. Way too much improvement for her. The bodybuilder boyfriend is her "supplement advisor" I guess. It all may be coincidental and she just happened to get on a roll this year but like I said, it just seems to add up only one way.

Like I said, a hilly course; over 3000 feet climbing on the bike and a wicked climb times two for the run. Her swim was not good, like :45. But swimming is so technical, unless you're putting in the yards, no PED is going to help you there. But biking and running, yes.

my .02

Endless Pools better find a new pro to sponsor...She totally admits "trying" it.



http://msn.foxsports.com/story/3155500

I think most of her sponsors are pretty happy about it that she admitted to it.

This way they can cut her loose without any legal wrangling. That is also the reason why professional athletes who get caught normally heavily deny everything. It is not about that they are concerned about their reputation or good name.

It is all about the money....

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adrialin

(BOMK, racing drug and supplement free since 1985)

oh...now i get it. man it's a semantic world isn't it? my personal favourite is the double speak of 'non - negative'. thank you for clearing that up. all these arguments over the same series of facts under different labels.

some words of natascha (ger, please use online-translation): http://www.3athlon.de/...natascha_badmann.php

some words of National Anti Doping Agency (ger, please use online-translation): http://www.3athlon.de/..._roland_augustin.php

some comments some diff. aspects (ger, please use online-translation): http://www.3athlon.de/...gfall_dtu_wrapup.php

some words of german pros (not finshed yet, ger, please use online-translation): http://www.3athlon.de/...ahmen_der_profis.php

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kind regards
Kai Baumgartner

Badmann's interview is very interesting...i sure hope we never hear one day that she is on something...

Has Badmann officially recieved her 100k and 5th Ironman title?

There is another 6" x full width article on this in the Toronto Star today. Not a bad article really. Quotes Lisa Bentley, Barry Shepply and Lance Watson. Basically it says that while it's bad Nina did drugs, it's good she got caught. Lisa states that she has never undergone random testing outside of race venues and only a very few of them. They felt the World Anti Doping Agency did not have Triathlon on it's radar. She further states that she was pleased to see it was not covered up or swept under the rug to appease the television networks.

It's written by Randy Starkman, a staff sports writer who actually seems pretty knowlegable on the subject and the participants. Too bad the paper couldn't give coverage when it's good though. Having said that, they did cover the Caledon Tri this year when Whittfeild was there.

J

It difficult to decipher the translation, but did Badmann imply that Kraft's team was hostile towards herself and Tony?

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A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes.
- Mark Twain

Random is not at competitions. Frankly, seeing as the benefits of EPO and steroids is longterm it amazes me that anyone gets caught at events.



Styrrell