Isn't the "unwritten rule" specifically in regards to attacking the malliot jaune when he is down?

You can't expect them to hold up every time someone goes down or has problems.

If Lance had waited for Zuelle in '98 he wouldn't have won his first Tour...

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Lance didn't race the Tour in '98

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The respect goes to the MJ. A GC contender going down in the middle of the race is while not wearing the yellow is fair game.

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The Cuban Comet
(Comets are unbelievably slow over Cuba)

Cannot agree with you Redemann on this one. The Cobble Stones were approaching and the Team had to make a move. Plus, Mayo not in yellow. This was more of a team decision/tactic rather than an individual taking advantage over another individual. However, don't expect Mayo to give any favors should the time arise.

Yeah...tough for Mayo...but, he was not in yellow...they cant wait for everyone.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

You and I know that I meant '99

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

Blame Mayo's team, only 4 dropped back to help him and they were pretty pathetic in organizing a chase. Compare that to Heras' team who looked like they immediately dropped back and had all their riders helping him bridge back up.

And since he beat Zulle in every time trial, and all but one of the mountain top finishes, I doubt it made that big a difference. Still would've won by about two minutes. But, I agree, Zulle has come closest to beating an in-form Armstrong, and it would've been fun to see.

Absolutely nothing wrong with how the stage was raced today. It was predicted, and everyone was aware of the dangers. More of a problem with EE than any other team. This has already been covered ad nauseum.

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Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Wrong analysis. The Blue Train was pushing the pace hard before Mayo fell. The tactical decision was to be in front when getting to the cobbles, and avoid crashes and dust. After the first section, they stayed in front to prepare for the second section. They didn't suddenly take off when Mayo fell.

Besides, Mayo's team didn't pull him back. Some others in that second group made it up (Heras was one), but Mayo just sat back there feeling sorry for himself. Mayo could at least have gone with Heras, but he didn't even bother trying. If his tour is over, then we know what he's really made of.

If Lance had fell, we would have seen two things: The pack would have kept on rolling, with Telekom in front. And -- 8 Postal guys would have ridden their guts out pulling Lance back up, with Lance doing most of the hard pulling!

So if Hushovd crashed, Team Postal would have waited?

Dave from VA

Yes, I think if Thor was down all teams would have refrained from attacking. Nobody is going to stop and wait for him, but they will give his team an opportunity to regroup and bring him back to the peleton. Now if another team were to attack, then they have to respond.

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The Cuban Comet
(Comets are unbelievably slow over Cuba)

I think this "unwritten rule" thing is getting blown out of proportion. I can only think of two times in the last five years when it really came up, and they were both very specific incidents. First when Jan went off the cliff, Lance decided to wait. Then last year when Lance crashed, Tyler kind of tried to slow the group down. Two times when really bizarre things happened to the two people directly competing for the yellow jersey. I think that was the point, Lance wanted to beat Jan head to head, not because of an accident. Last year, I think Jan would have ridden off if Tyler hadn't flagged everyone down. I don't think anyone expects the whole peleton to wait just because someone who might haven an outside chance of winning goes down. That's just racing. If there's someone out there with some experience as a pro in Europe, I'd be interested in hearing more about this.

Chris

One thing missed in this review is that there was a breakaway going away when Mayo went down. The pacemaking by Postal was after the break. Mayo falling is not even a factor.

The smart team went to the cobbles flying and pushed the pace to split the bunch, that bike racing tactics is best.

Perfect tactics by the best teams in the race. Too bad for Mayo. But he was only an outside shot to win in the first place. Too bad for Moreau as well. He was racing well this year.

Yup, this is exactly why you always see Lance near the front of the race. Very impressive work by Postal today, it's kind of weird watching the race split like that on a flat stage.

Its not wierd at all. Challenging conditions often cause splits like this. Put a 30mph crosswind out there and you'd have the same result. The strong teams would push the pace and folks would be spit out the back. Drop off the peloton in those conditions and you're toast.

You're right. I guess I didn't really mean weird, more like exciting... sure makes it fun to watch.

>Besides, Mayo's team didn't pull him back.<

Yeah, that was really surprising and what the ex-pro guys I'm with immediately noted. And you know that Eki and George were just amped to get to that pave' first. We rode the first section yesterday and man, that is one tough ride. We also rode the Arrenberg Forest and I cannot imagine riding it in the rain.

Pave' clm now

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the rule is that if a potential winner crashes then the bunch waits, but the rule has never been that if a potential winner is not smart enough to stay at the front when there is a huge risk of crash, and stays at the back and gets slowed down by a crash then they shouldn't attack.

the move was legitimate in my opinion. You could see in the last couple of days, Jan and Lance having their teammates protecting them, and riding near or at the front to prevent being ruled out of the tour in the very first days.

the positions would have been reversed, and Mayo would have had his boys ride hard at the front...

smart, strong teams going fast into the pave, a break up the road, mayo crashes on pave, EE team unprepared for pave and not organized, thor in yellow not a real contender...go fast and keep on going.

Agreed.

It seems the chosen and best tactic for a number of the key contenders( hamilton, Ullrich and Armstrong) was to be at or near the front with their teams on the cobbles - Mayo it appears, either chose not to do this or tactically lost out on the battle to get to the front. He ran a huge risk doing this and he has paid for it.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

[reply]I wonder why Lance gave the order to his team to attack after Mayo crashed. It seems he clearly broke the unwritten rule not to attack when an opponent is down. This will put Mayo out of contention.[/reply]


Redemann,

jkatsoudas reponded to this "criticism" on the "Wouldn't it be nice to see this in April" thread. I found his analysis much more accurate and insightful than the accusatory speculations that many have advanced. FWIW

" Gerard, I'm watching the tape of today's stage and I gotta say that I'm confused by your comments. Postal was pressing the pace with over 90 miles to go- far before the first section of pave (presumably to be at the head of the peloton when hitting the pave). They didn't suddenly pick up the pace when Mayo crashed. When he did crash they were already in the first section of pave. There was also a 2 man break that had a 3 minute lead that the peloton was trying to chase down. Mayo could have regained contact with the main group had his teammates dropped back and helped him, but they didn't even realize that he had crashed for some time. So I'm not clear on what USPS did wrong. They didn't suddenly pick up the pace to attack Mayo. How much time do you give someone to rejoin the race when their own teammates won't even drop back to help them? Were they supposed to suddenly sit up and let the break open up 7, 8, 10 minutes on the peloton? Also, by most people's accounts, Mayo is a longshot at best for a podium spot. Sure, he had a good day on Mt Ventoux, but this doesn't make him a TdF GC contender in my book. He has a weak team and he's a weak all-arounder. So, who do you decide to wait for? Just because he's someone's dark horse contender, is the peloton obligated to wait for him? What about Levi? Christophe Moreou (sp)? You get my point- where do you draw the line? I'd argue that Lance wasn't afraid of him, if anything he had dismissed him as a real GC contender."

As for slowing on Pavé, that is a recipe for disaster. The most successful way to ride Pavé is to ride over it as fast as possible. This affords the greatest measure of bicycle control. One "floats" over the cobbles more so than bouncing over them at slower speeds. This is why there was such an urgency to get to the Pavé sections first and to ride them fast.

The Postal team has a number of experienced Classics riders who understand this very well.

As I offered in another thread, if you are so concerned about a rider on a weaker team being out of contention, maybe the TTT rule limiting time lost on a stage should be applied to all stages. Then strong teams and strong riders on strong teams could be "weakened" so that the strongest riders and teams would not have such and advantage and maybe weaker riders and teams could win even though their overall actual time was not the lowest!

So much for identifying limiting riders and skills and training to improve the limiters and riders as well as building a strong team. Just change the rules. Hey, I wonder if the same logic is involved with doping in cycling? Why train so hard? Just do drugs!

Hey, maybe they should change the TDF rules to permit drug use. Then all the cyclists who have been ruled ineligible would be able to compete for stage wins, jerseys, and GC. Isn't it similarly unfair to these riders to exclude them from the tour?

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Ben Cline


Better to aspire to Greatness and fail, than to not challenge one's self at all, and succeed.

thought that rule applied to the yellow jersey wearing rider only..not to attack when he is down? Who is wearing the yellow jersey now..getting sketchy information at the moment. thanks

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