Mountain bike test rides

Sep 10, 20 9:15

Post #1 of 26 (2675 views)

This might be a better topic for PB than slowtwitch, but I find this group more analytical so we will give it a go.

I am in the market for a new XC mountain bike and while at a shop, I asked about bike demo days (these were a thing a few years ago for the big brands) While I did not expect one in 2020 given the world, I was surprised to hear the shop owner, as well as the MFR rep for a very large bike company say "I don't think those will be something that comes back"

I get that most road, gravel and tri bikes can be sold based on some solid fit time on a trainer, and some time in the parking lot. I have bought my last gravel and road bikes without even that much (bought as framesets from LBS) if you know the stack, reach, and use case for your bike, (endurance, aero, GC, gravel, cross) it really is hard to not get a great bike these days.

But when it comes to mountain bikes, the geometry is (with the exception of tri bikes) far more complex. The fit is likely more general, but things like head tube angle, seat tube, fork offset, chain stay length have a massive effect on how a bike will ride on the trail.

So how does one pick a mountain bike? Seems crazy to spend 6k+ on a bike after riding it around the parking lot. My Thought goes to D2C brands which often allow return windows. Any other ideas out there?

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 10, 20 9:27

Post #2 of 26 (2661 views)

When I was test riding mountain bikes:

I rode on pavement zig-zaging to see how the steering dropped from side to side. After getting that feel, I did it on grass/dirt to get that feeling.
I then rode on the trail to see how the bike was balanced front/back and how aggressive it was.

I tried pulling wheelies to see how much effort it was to lift the front end. It's really more related to chainstay length than front/center.

Suspension, tires and saddle are all things that can be changed easily so I didn't dwell on them much.

Maybe those few things could help you feel what you like.

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 10, 20 9:27

Post #3 of 26 (2661 views)

My local (OKC) mtb community has a facebook group. If i was looking for a specific bike, i'd hit up that group to see if anyone has one i could test ride. I know that if somebody was looking for a Top Fuel or HT SS, I'd let them borrow one of my bikes in a heartbeat.

Some shops rent bikes. You could try to rent whatever you are looking at.

I also look to see what pros are riding. I know that it's more driven by sponsorship, but if it's capable enough for them to place well in a world cup race, it's going to be good enough for me.

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 10, 20 9:46

Post #4 of 26 (2646 views)

Eroc43 wrote:

This might be a better topic for PB than slowtwitch, but I find this group more analytical so we will give it a go.

I am in the market for a new XC mountain bike and while at a shop, I asked about bike demo days (these were a thing a few years ago for the big brands) While I did not expect one in 2020 given the world, I was surprised to hear the shop owner, as well as the MFR rep for a very large bike company say "I don't think those will be something that comes back"

I get that most road, gravel and tri bikes can be sold based on some solid fit time on a trainer, and some time in the parking lot. I have bought my last gravel and road bikes without even that much (bought as framesets from LBS) if you know the stack, reach, and use case for your bike, (endurance, aero, GC, gravel, cross) it really is hard to not get a great bike these days.

But when it comes to mountain bikes, the geometry is (with the exception of tri bikes) far more complex. The fit is likely more general, but things like head tube angle, seat tube, fork offset, chain stay length have a massive effect on how a bike will ride on the trail.

So how does one pick a mountain bike? Seems crazy to spend 6k+ on a bike after riding it around the parking lot. My Thought goes to D2C brands which often allow return windows. Any other ideas out there?

A shop near me still has demo bikes even in these times. They primarily sell Santa Cruz so maybe try a different shop?

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 10, 20 11:17

Post #5 of 26 (2601 views)

Locally (Northern Colorado) verrrrrrrrrrry few shops are offering demos but most of the vendors are still doing so from their places. Spot & Commencal in Golden and Revel/Why in Carbondale are good examples of this

https://rent.commencal.com/usa/

https://spotbikes.com/collections/demo-fleet

https://www.revelbikes.com/demo/

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 10, 20 12:52

Post #6 of 26 (2565 views)

Eroc43 wrote:

This might be a better topic for PB than slowtwitch, but I find this group more analytical so we will give it a go.

I am in the market for a new XC mountain bike and while at a shop, I asked about bike demo days (these were a thing a few years ago for the big brands) While I did not expect one in 2020 given the world, I was surprised to hear the shop owner, as well as the MFR rep for a very large bike company say "I don't think those will be something that comes back"

I get that most road, gravel and tri bikes can be sold based on some solid fit time on a trainer, and some time in the parking lot. I have bought my last gravel and road bikes without even that much (bought as framesets from LBS) if you know the stack, reach, and use case for your bike, (endurance, aero, GC, gravel, cross) it really is hard to not get a great bike these days.

But when it comes to mountain bikes, the geometry is (with the exception of tri bikes) far more complex. The fit is likely more general, but things like head tube angle, seat tube, fork offset, chain stay length have a massive effect on how a bike will ride on the trail.

So how does one pick a mountain bike? Seems crazy to spend 6k+ on a bike after riding it around the parking lot. My Thought goes to D2C brands which often allow return windows. Any other ideas out there?

Here is the link to the shop by me. Demo has a fee but its put towards a purchase.

https://www.kirklandbikes.com/articles/demo-bikes-pg67.htm

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Uncle Arqyle] [ In reply to ]

Sep 10, 20 13:16

Post #7 of 26 (2543 views)

I am actually in South King county, so might have to check out the shop in Kirkland. Looks like most of their bikes are a bit more on the enduro/ trail side of things, thanks for the suggestion!

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 10, 20 13:33

Post #8 of 26 (2530 views)

Eroc43 wrote:

I am actually in South King county, so might have to check out the shop in Kirkland. Looks like most of their bikes are a bit more on the enduro/ trail side of things, thanks for the suggestion!

Well lookie there. What a coincidence. You should give them a call. I was in there last week and a lady was taking one of the demo bikes out. A buddy of mine bought a bike from the MTB shop in Roslyn. Not sure if they do demos but checking into some of the shops in smaller towns might be wise once you get to a point of knowing what you want.

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Uncle Arqyle] [ In reply to ]

Sep 10, 20 19:31

Post #9 of 26 (2475 views)

I am on the East coast so I can't help you locally, but the really good MTB shop in my area that had a huge demo fleet pre covid, did shut the demos down from march through the beginning of the summer, but they are back up and running the full demo fleet, so just using this as an example.
I would never buy a Mountain bike without demoing it on real trails.
I'd say find yourself another shop, it doesn't sound like they know what they are talking about

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 10, 20 19:48

Post #10 of 26 (2469 views)

You already have good advice above. I bought my first XC bike last year, a Santa Cruz Blur in CC X01 trim that weighs 22.X pounds before pedals. I’ve only raced it twice in cross country XC races due to COVID, but it’s been tremendous fun and the bike handles well except for the choppy stuff.

I added a SRAM AXS dropper post, which is a wireless post. The wireless made install a breeze and it actually works better than any hydraulic dropper I’ve used. I also installed the AXS XX1 wireless shifter. That upgrade falls more into the nice but not necessary category. The main benefit to the wireless shifting is that it does a better job shifting under load, when climbing.

Also, if you don’t have a gravel bike, an XC bike is a great substitute if you want to do any gravel riding.

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 10, 20 20:22

Post #11 of 26 (2456 views)

Some good advice in here thus far. I'd just like to chime in that I'd never buy a MTB without riding it first for the reasons you pointed out. As an example, year before last I went to Sedona. I rode two bikes with nearly identical geometries and travels (A Fezzari and a Canyon) but because they had different linkages and the way those linkages worked I sat lower in the Canyon at 30% sag (which so many manufacturers seem to suggest for initial setup). This was just enough for me to pedal strike *way* more often on the Canyon. Would never have known that if I hadn't ridden it.

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 11, 20 5:49

Post #12 of 26 (2399 views)

This is why I've owned a Specialized Epic since they were introduced in 2003 (?). It fit perfectly. I've had six Epics now. I just know it will fit and it's fast. Good luck with your purchase. It is difficult. You need a bike that will give you confidence. This will allow you to go so much faster. Granted tires also play a huge factor into it as well.

_________________________________
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Re: Mountain bike test rides [Economist] [ In reply to ]

Sep 11, 20 8:00

Post #13 of 26 (2366 views)

I am on a 2014 Epic WC now, my thought is to get the 2021, however the difference between my epic and the new epic might as well be a different bike, mine is a 71 head tube and the new one is like 67.
I have always noticed the "twitchiness" of my bike on long fast downhills, but kind of thought that was just because I was going faster. On the flip side, I have never been on a bike that handles uphill switchbacks like this one. Sounds like I have to find some places to rent some bikes!

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 11, 20 8:23

Post #14 of 26 (2360 views)

Eroc43 wrote:

I am on a 2014 Epic WC now, my thought is to get the 2021, however the difference between my epic and the new epic might as well be a different bike, mine is a 71 head tube and the new one is like 67.
I have always noticed the "twitchiness" of my bike on long fast downhills, but kind of thought that was just because I was going faster. On the flip side, I have never been on a bike that handles uphill switchbacks like this one. Sounds like I have to find some places to rent some bikes!

Another idea is since you're in King County, take a road trip somewhere like Sun Valley and rent a couple different MTB's over a couple days. I was just there and you can choose a bunch of different brand bikes to rent for the day.

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 11, 20 12:31

Post #15 of 26 (2310 views)

FYI you can reduce some of that twitchiness by switching to a shorter offset fork.

Re: Mountain bike test rides [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Sep 11, 20 12:51

Post #16 of 26 (2306 views)

Thought about that, I believe it is a 46 or 48mm offset, so was not sure going to a 44 would get me that much. Also the bike is not boost, so did not really want to invest more money in old tech. (even if I do think boost was mostly a force obsolescence)

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 11, 20 14:45

Post #17 of 26 (2286 views)

Eroc43 wrote:

I am on a 2014 Epic WC now, my thought is to get the 2021, however the difference between my epic and the new epic might as well be a different bike, mine is a 71 head tube and the new one is like 67.
I have always noticed the "twitchiness" of my bike on long fast downhills, but kind of thought that was just because I was going faster. On the flip side, I have never been on a bike that handles uphill switchbacks like this one. Sounds like I have to find some places to rent some bikes!

I have the same 2014 Epic WC, but a year ago I put on a 120mm Stepcast 34. My "bigger bike" (which I tend to ride more) is a 2020 Pivot Switchblade and it's comical when I get back on the Epic. The first 20 minutes on singletrack I'm scared to death, but I re-adapt as the ride goes on.

An improvement on newer, "modern geometry", mountain bikes is the increased wheelbase from both a slacker HTA and a longer reach.

When I bought the Switchblade it instantly handled exactly as I felt it should. This is both on the flats and descents. Frankly uphill switchbacks aren't much more cumbersome (Turn handlebars, pedal hard). I think from the beginning I've had to adapt to making the Epic work, but did so subconsciously because that geometry was all he had in the past few years. This is all to say that the "newer" geometry is actually more neutral than what we've been riding / become accustomed to.

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Re: Mountain bike test rides [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]

Sep 11, 20 15:23

Post #18 of 26 (2277 views)

Honestly what you said is exactly what is drawing me to a new bike. I feel the epic is great in terms of flat twisty single track. But on a big descent, it is just not ideal. tipping point was kind of this weekend when a buddy (who is a better descender than me) was riding behind me on a section told me "you were riding really fast, but damn did you look like you were fighting the bike"

Re: Mountain bike test rides [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]

Sep 11, 20 17:30

Post #19 of 26 (2260 views)

I've had different experiences with switchbacks. Out west I don't have a problem with longer bikes but back east I sure do. I'm 6'2" but I can't really go longer than 1200mm on wheelbase. Don't know how to describe it but when you're going up a switchback and there's a pine tree right on the inside of your apex... the bigger bikes just don't work for me. It's also a very different type of riding than what you have out west.

With that said, I'm faster on virtually every trail on my 130/130 Fuel Ex with 29x2.6 tires than I am on my Cannondale F-Si.

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 11, 20 17:37

Post #20 of 26 (2254 views)

Yeah you probably want/need a new bike. No point in upgrading what you have. I'd suggest looking at trail bikes. Something with ~130mm of travel. For just a pound or two of extra weight you gain soooooo much more capability and modern trail bikes pedal very well. Try to hunt down a Trek Fuel Ex... or maybe even a Top Fuel.

Re: Mountain bike test rides [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]

Sep 14, 20 9:33

Post #21 of 26 (2148 views)

Also, while I am on my soapbox.
Why don't most brands post "trail" in their geo charts. Everyone likes to talk about HT angle now, not sure why you would not add trail as well (more so if you dont publish what fork offset you use)

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 14, 20 10:28

Post #22 of 26 (2136 views)

I found it on most of the mountain bikes I was looking at, some I calculated it from the head tube angle and fork rake.

What bikes are you looking for trail on?

Re: Mountain bike test rides [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Sep 14, 20 11:50

Post #23 of 26 (2125 views)

I don't see if on the Canyon Lux, Spot Ryve100, Orbea Oiz, Pivot Mach 4 SL. I did not see it on the Scott Spark when I looked last time, but I see it there now, so I might have missed it.

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 14, 20 18:47

Post #24 of 26 (2092 views)

Canyon Lux CF SLX head tube is 70 degrees
Canyon Lux CF SL head tube is 69.5 degrees
Fox fork is 44mm offset
Rockshox is 51mm offset

You'll have to find the fork lengths

Spot Ryve100
Head tube angle 68.4 degrees
Fox Fork 44mm offset

Orbea Oiz
Head tube angle 70 degrees
Fork offset 44mm

Pivot Mach 4 SL
Head tube angle 68.5 degrees
Fork offset 44mm

Re: Mountain bike test rides [Eroc43] [ In reply to ]

Sep 14, 20 21:07

Post #25 of 26 (2078 views)

Eroc43 wrote:

Also, while I am on my soapbox.
Why don't most brands post "trail" in their geo charts. Everyone likes to talk about HT angle now, not sure why you would not add trail as well (more so if you dont publish what fork offset you use)

This.

HTA without offset is kind of meaningless. What everyone is really after for high-speed handling is trail. My $0.02 I prefer steeper HTAs and shorter offset. Something in the 67-68 degree range but with a 44 or less offset (you can get a different crown for Fox forks to bring offset down to 41 and 37 IIIRC). Admittedly a slacker HTA has other benefits with regards to suspension so there's a compromise there.

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