I'm not blaming her. She's obviously psychologically damaged from the episode. A stable person is never going to go back to something that abused them. But most people also get programmed to think that this is the only way: Stockholm Syndrome type stuff. And again, this is where your support system (parents) should step in.



Got a link? Ah, her own thread: https://twitter.com/.../1192787552647942146

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

It's definitely not just a NOP problem. Or a USA problem.
Take a look at all the shiiiite that's come out in the past 2/3/4 years about British Cycling's culture, the bullying mentality, dominated by male coaches, some stuck in the 1830s 'you're too fat, go have a baby' etc).
And some of the doping allegations are still being looked at by the BMC vs the Doc

(## oh and the irony - when I type the word 'THE' it keeps coming out as 'TUE' 🤔🤣 ##)

Yeah the team Sky stuff is insane.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I saw a triathlon coach destroy young women. One young girl used to show up for masters swim in the morning in tears. It was just too much for her. Because of the power differential she couldn't refuse to do a workout, but it was too much too fast. She did not make it a year with that coach.

I have seen young swimmers get over worked, over coached, and given no real nutrition advice. They burned out, or worse ended up seriously injured.

This happens everywhere with young athletes There are usually power imbalances and egotistical coaches. The coaches only look good if the athletes win, and they just push too hard.

That video is horrifying, but it is also good to see her stand up and speak her truth. That should be required viewing for all young athletes. Young athletes need to understand that they can tell a coach to jump in a lake.

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"Remember: a bicycle is an elegant and efficient tool designed for seeking out and defeating people who aren't as good as you."

--BikeSnobNYC

 Young athletes need to understand that they can tell a coach to jump in a lake.

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I would say that they need to be able to talk to their coach about anything without judgement or pressure and if they can't they need to re-evaluate. Of course that can be hard with the whole coach/athlete power/control dynamic.

So it's not about the coach or the athlete being able to tell the other to take a hike....it's about respecting each other, understanding each other, and that's what is needed for the relationship to be strong and to get the most out of the athlete.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

But why argue about what someone else's experience is? Yeah, Salazar is extreme, but he's not THAT extreme. There are Salazar clones from club teams to Div I sports who are maybe not quite as sleazy, but I can assure you they are doing much more than just "encouraging athletes to lose weight." Maybe YOUR experience didn't confirm that, but that doesn't mean you have to shoot down others.

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http://www.extramilenutrition.com

Huh? There are plenty of women in the "group formally known as NOP"

Hassan is light years ahead of anyone at BTC

EXACTLY THIS. Even in high school athletics (and younger) parents get too caught up in pushing their kids in hopes of getting a scholarship to college for sports. Mary Cain is just one example of a kid that is pushed way too hard to conform to some ideal that somebody else has defined for them. Fortunately for Mary, this didn't end the way it ended for Maddy Holleran. There are dozens of stories just like these.

So what’s the general lessons being learned here, other than the NOP group being sh!tty? If it’s so prevalent, why aren’t we doing more about it, and it keeps happening?

I've heard eerily similar stories from three girls that used to train under a very well known tri coach.

It will likely come out, eventually.

either it was a professional environment or it wasn't. Predatory coaching and abuse and pushing drugs on people is not professional.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

What is grooming?
Grooming is when someone builds a relationship, trust and emotional connection with a child or young person so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them.
This is why people in abusive relationships come back, or can't leave.

There's no way Nike, a billion-dollar wholesome All-American Company (TM), could be involved in something so terrible. I'm sure their funding of USATF is totally on the level and not indicative of systemic rot in American sports. The company of Jordan, LeBron, Lance, Carl Lewis, Cristiano Ronaldo, Mo Farah, Tiger Woods, Flo Jo, Bo Jackson, Salazar, Marion Jones, et. al. is pure.

Mary Cain is lying.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I think that was my point. Either we agree that all high-level coaching and teams and shoe companies are doped up psychological abuse factories and that everyone including her parents should have known better, or we agree that these behaviors are wrong, illegal, and that there are good people, athletes, coaches, and companies out there and that Mary Cain and her parents are in no way "at fault" for what went on.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Can't speak for her parents because I know zero information about them, but I would imagine any parents would at least marginally assume being a part of something like ONP, one would have the best resources of everything including medical, nutritionists, athletic trainers, etc.


There is for sure some or a lot of that here. Prior to the recent bad news for Salazar, if you go back a few years, he was having Best Distance Running Coach in the world honors bestowed upon him. Ditto for Nike - being a little naive you would think they would have the best of the best, of everything available to an athlete like Cain. So you kind of assume, that everything is all good, right?

However, here's the other thing that rarely get's talked about, and this in NO WAY excuses the awful terrible, behavior of Salazar, with the linkage to Nike, in any way. Time and time again, we see this pattern repeat itself, it's VERY rare in a sport like running and track &field that when at athlete is THIS good at age 16/17 and breaking national records, that they ever go on to true, sustained international success.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

?????

Salazar is pure ?
His team of coach is pure ?
NOP was pure ?
Nike CEO is pure ?
The pressure they put on governing body through all the money they distribute is pure ?

Not ALL Nike is shit, but clearly some significants parts are shit. Clearly some coaches went too far, regarding doping, weight, ... financed and protected by some big boss of the company.

It is never a good idea to say all is pure or all is shit.

Let's make clear what is pure and what is not.

Whatever it is within Nike, or Sky/Ineos, or whatever company, or local hero, same way it was done for, and around, a multiple winner of TdF.

Or within governing bodies such as IAAF not applying their own rules, or FINA ignoring blood smashing f***ing doper, and associated bribes...

A bit like the #metoo effect, hopefully this could only be the beginning of some serious cleaning wave ?

Not ALL Nike is shit, but clearly some significants parts are shit. Clearly some coaches went too far, regarding doping, weight, ... financed and protected by some big boss of the company.

It is never a good idea to say all is pure or all is shit.


Agreed.

Nike shoe design and engineering with the Vaporfly 4% and Next% - cutting edge, ahead of the curve, genius! If the independent 3rd party research is right, the shoes DO make runners 2% - 3% more efficient. The science backs up the Nike hype/marketing! Nike has been exceptional with this over the years, with game-changing shoe technology going all the way back to the original Nike Waffle Trainers.

Nike turning a blind eye to Salazar's shady practices of coaching and awful treatment of athletes - that's terrible! And should not be tolerated in any way. The same was most likely going on in the Lance Armstrong days, BEFORE Lance admitted to doping, there must have been people at Nike who knew what was going on, and just turned a blind eye to it all.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Sarcasm

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

OK
Was wandering...

You can ignore the first 5 lines, then :-)

This happens everywhere with young athletes There are usually power imbalances and egotistical coaches. The coaches only look good if the athletes win, and they just push too hard.


There is a completely and totally unhealthy situation that has developed in kid/youth sports across North America in my view - I don't know who exactly is to blame, but coaches and parents are the most likely suspects.

If a kid is good at any sport these days ( the team sports in particular), they are pushed into almost a full-time commitment to the sport by age-10. So you have these 10 year old's training like Professional level athletes almost year round. It's telling that you have sports medicine clinics and physiotherapy clinics that focused on youth sports injuries for pete's sake!

It's no surprise that many kids are done by the time they are 14 - 16, at exactly the time that if they were to get serious, they need to start to ramp it up to the next level. But they have been training, and competing at a very high level by that point for 6+ years!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Culture culture culture


Someone asked what’s the big takeaway and for me that’s it. What culture are you surrounding your athletes with. What philosophy is driven you to success?

Win at all costs?
Winning only matters?

Those types of things we’ve seen have driven what we’d consider “good” people to do some really bad things; either directly or indirectly by “turning a blind eye.”

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Some elite triathlon coaches are good at understanding the importance of mindset in female athletes as it pertains to weight and such, and how certain comments can lead athletes down a road of disordered eating, and some just don't. I have a feeling I know one of the athletes you're referring to, and it explains why she switched coaches.

This thread was oh so close to getting to the root of the issue but now you and Brooks are talking about youth sports and culture and OMG....

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Agreed. Wasn't replying to you specifically. I guess I was just giving it a name.

This thread was oh so close to getting to the root of the issue but now you and Brooks are talking about youth sports and culture and OMG....


Eric,

I'm sorry.

Asking for clarity - from your perspective what is the root cause?

My feeling is the obsession with youth sports, is part of the issue, yes/no?

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog