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Major flaw in slope mode on my Stages SB20 – does your SB20 do the same?
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A thread for all SB20 owners – I'm very interested to have your feedback!

For many of my sessions on my SB20, I do "micro intervals". Because the erg mode responds too slowly, I use slope mode for this. On my SB20, the slope mode has a number of faults:
1. If I increase effort/pedaling cadence too quickly, the resistance cannot keep up, and it actually loses resistance for a couple of seconds, and then suddenly piles it on.
2. If I stand up on the pedals (or even shift my weight too much), then the resistance unit again plays up and I lose resistance. This can be for 15–30 seconds, until it adapts and builds resistance back in. Still, for this and flaw #1, there are ways of adapting or living with them.
3. However, the flaw that really perplexes me, and that I also find (irrationally?) annoying, is that slope mode does not maintain a steady resistance level. Instead, over the course of minutes, the resistance level gradually decreases. The easy way to notice this is to ride to a constant target power output – monitored using average power – while keeping in the same virtual gear. If I do this on my SB20, over time I have to gradually but constantly increase cadence in order to keep to the target power. Over a 40 minute session this can be an upwards drift in cadence of 10+ rpm. This behavior is irrespective of which app is communicating with the device.

Regarding flaw #3, I have been in contact with Stages service for troubleshooting. Two times they sent a new PCB and one time a new power brick, but these did not make any difference. So, right now, I have no idea if it is problem with just my SB20, or it is simply how all SB20s behave. I have also read through various threads and tried the SB30 Facebook group for feedback on this, but found almost nothing. Therefore, I would be really appreciative if other SB20 owners can try doing the test described in #3 and report back. Even a 15 or 20 minute test should be enough! Does yours also have a downward drifting resistance when in slope mode?
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Re: Major flaw in slope mode on my Stages SB20 – does your SB20 do the same? [duncan] [ In reply to ]
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duncan wrote:
A thread for all SB20 owners – I'm very interested to have your feedback!

For many of my sessions on my SB20, I do "micro intervals". Because the erg mode responds too slowly, I use slope mode for this. On my SB20, the slope mode has a number of faults:
1. If I increase effort/pedaling cadence too quickly, the resistance cannot keep up, and it actually loses resistance for a couple of seconds, and then suddenly piles it on.
2. If I stand up on the pedals (or even shift my weight too much), then the resistance unit again plays up and I lose resistance. This can be for 15–30 seconds, until it adapts and builds resistance back in. Still, for this and flaw #1, there are ways of adapting or living with them.
3. However, the flaw that really perplexes me, and that I also find (irrationally?) annoying, is that slope mode does not maintain a steady resistance level. Instead, over the course of minutes, the resistance level gradually decreases. The easy way to notice this is to ride to a constant target power output – monitored using average power – while keeping in the same virtual gear. If I do this on my SB20, over time I have to gradually but constantly increase cadence in order to keep to the target power. Over a 40 minute session this can be an upwards drift in cadence of 10+ rpm. This behavior is irrespective of which app is communicating with the device.

Regarding flaw #3, I have been in contact with Stages service for troubleshooting. Two times they sent a new PCB and one time a new power brick, but these did not make any difference. So, right now, I have no idea if it is problem with just my SB20, or it is simply how all SB20s behave. I have also read through various threads and tried the SB30 Facebook group for feedback on this, but found almost nothing. Therefore, I would be really appreciative if other SB20 owners can try doing the test described in #3 and report back. Even a 15 or 20 minute test should be enough! Does yours also have a downward drifting resistance when in slope mode?


I’ve a lot of hours on my Stages and haven’t seen this. Are you using Zwift? Are you pairing the Stages bike or left crank arm to the app?
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Re: Major flaw in slope mode on my Stages SB20 – does your SB20 do the same? [duncan] [ In reply to ]
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Happy to test out. But sorry to sound stupid. But what is slope mode?

I just use Zwift and FulGaz, but happy to use the Stages app or something else to help you out?

Regards, Richard
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Re: Major flaw in slope mode on my Stages SB20 – does your SB20 do the same? [DonV] [ In reply to ]
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DonV wrote:
I’ve a lot of hours on my Stages and haven’t seen this. Are you using Zwift? Are you pairing the Stages bike or left crank arm to the app?

I have not really used Zwift, but have had this issue using both TrainerRoad and TrainerDay. In both cases I am pairing only with the Stages bike. However, I have also experimented with instead pairing only to the left crank arm and then running in solely power recording mode, either to TrainerRoad or to a Garmin 530 (while using the Stages app to set virtual gear). In all cases, I see the same drift.
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Re: Major flaw in slope mode on my Stages SB20 – does your SB20 do the same? [duncan] [ In reply to ]
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I also experience the same issue with my SB20.
I also mostly use "slope" mode instead of ERG mode.

I've seen this issue mostly during warming up, where I use a constant slope, and one virtual gear and then I also see the power decreasing over time using the same cadence. I normally shift gears then to overcome this and get back to the power I want (I use dream drive, so small steps).
I always believed it had something to do with the system (belt, ...) warming up, and maybe should do a new zero reset of the power meters after 10-15' riding, but it never really bothered me that much to really test this further.

I just use the Stages App, so no experience with other apps.
Last edited by: HVDB: Nov 9, 23 1:56
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Re: Major flaw in slope mode on my Stages SB20 – does your SB20 do the same? [duncan] [ In reply to ]
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I've had an SB20 for a few years and use it all the time. I train mostly on Trainer Road and Zwift. My experiences:

1. If the bike is losing resistance occassionally, it's time for a restart. I generally cut the power to the bike (using a remotely activated plug) after each ride and restore power before every ride. This is easy and eliminates the "losing resistance" issue in my experience. Also, make sure you have the lastest firmware installed (Stages actually hasn't updated it in a while) and that you are connecting the power meters to the bike through Bluetooth. One other note: on the latest firmware I just connect the bike itself as the "power source", not the left crankarm as was the case previously. All of this has made the bike far more reliable for me than it was several years ago.
2. I don't use "slope mode" (no idea what that is), but I agree that intervals of 30 or shorter in erg mode don't work all that well. It takes the bike 5-8 seconds to ramp up resistance at a steady cadence and by the time you're there the interval is mostly over. If I'm doing a TrainerRoad erg mode workout with very short intervals, I'll generally dump it into resistance mode. I think the bike struggles with short intervals because it has a massive flywheel (55 lbs) with tons of inertia and doesn't do as much power smoothing that something like a Kickr does. It's no big deal for me, resistance mode and dumping (virtual) gears to ramp up resistance is actually preferable to me than erg mode. Also, in my experience erg mode works very well on intervals longer than 30 seconds.
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Re: Major flaw in slope mode on my Stages SB20 – does your SB20 do the same? [thetrickster] [ In reply to ]
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thetrickster wrote:
Happy to test out. But sorry to sound stupid. But what is slope mode?

I just use Zwift and FulGaz, but happy to use the Stages app or something else to help you out?

On Zwift or FulGaz, sim mode is what I call slope mode. However, unless you find a course which is perfectly flat and with no drafting effect, then making my proposed test will not work... A work around is to use no app apart from the Stages phone app, then connect the left hand crank to a Garmin (or something equivalent), and do an indoor workout targeting a constant average power on the Garmin.
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Re: Major flaw in slope mode on my Stages SB20 – does your SB20 do the same? [HVDB] [ In reply to ]
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HVDB wrote:
I also experience the same issue with my SB20.
I also mostly use "slope" mode instead of ERG mode.

I've seen this issue mostly during warming up, where I use a constant slope, and one virtual gear and then I also see the power decreasing over time using the same cadence. I normally shift gears then to overcome this and get back to the power I want (I use dream drive, so small steps).
I always believed it had something to do with the system (belt, ...) warming up, and maybe should do a new zero reset of the power meters after 10-15' riding, but it never really bothered me that much to really test this further.

I just use the Stages App, so no experience with other apps.

Thanks for the feedback. On the face of it, this behavior is consistent with my SB20. However, in my experience, it is not a "warming up" problem, since it continues with a linear drift over the whole session time period (i.e. still drifting after 40–50 minutes).

I do not think it is a problem of crank power meter calibration – these are measuring the correct output (effort level stays the same for indicated power output), just the resistance unit gradually decreases the resistance amount for a certain virtual gear/pedaling cadence combination.
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Re: Major flaw in slope mode on my Stages SB20 – does your SB20 do the same? [hiro11] [ In reply to ]
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hiro11 wrote:
1. If the bike is losing resistance occassionally, it's time for a restart. I generally cut the power to the bike (using a remotely activated plug) after each ride and restore power before every ride.
I have never had this total losing resistance, but then I also have mine on a power strip that I turn off straight after finishing the session. I have a remote-controlled fan (Vacmaster Cardio54) on the same strip, so pretty convenient.

hiro11 wrote:
make sure you ... that you are connecting the power meters to the bike through Bluetooth.
You mean through the Stages app? Why do you recommend doing this? I don't remember seeing it advised elsewhere.

hiro11 wrote:
One other note: on the latest firmware I just connect the bike itself as the "power source", not the left crankarm as was the case previously.
I knew that was recommended for TrainerRoad, but you're also running it like that in Zwift now?

hiro11 wrote:
2. I don't use "slope mode" (no idea what that is) ... If I'm doing a TrainerRoad erg mode workout with very short intervals, I'll generally dump it into resistance mode. I think the bike struggles with short intervals because it has a massive flywheel (55 lbs) with tons of inertia and doesn't do as much power smoothing that something like a Kickr does. It's no big deal for me, resistance mode and dumping (virtual) gears to ramp up resistance is actually preferable to me than erg mode.
Slope mode = resistance mode :-)
Recently I have been trying out TrainerDay. On their latest build, they have a feature which allows one to set the slope (i.e. virtual gradient) for each interval segment when running in resistance (slope) mode. Ramping this up for short intervals on the SB20 seems fairly promising.

hiro11 wrote:
Also, in my experience erg mode works very well on intervals longer than 30 seconds.
Don't disagree here. Seems that some people are perturbed by the constantly fluctuating power numbers, which are given raw without smoothing, but I'm used to this from years riding with unsmoothed numbers from my SRM power meters.
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Re: Major flaw in slope mode on my Stages SB20 – does your SB20 do the same? [duncan] [ In reply to ]
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duncan wrote:
I have never had this total losing resistance, but then I also have mine on a power strip that I turn off straight after finishing the session. I have a remote-controlled fan (Vacmaster Cardio54) on the same strip, so pretty convenient.
OK, so in effect you're already doing what I recommend. I guess I don't understand the nature of your problem.


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You mean through the Stages app? Why do you recommend doing this? I don't remember seeing it advised elsewhere.
Yes, it's a setting for the power meters in the Stages app that impacts how the bike works globally. It's might actually be the default, just check it. It's a more solid connection, Stages recommends it as do all of the SB20 forums.

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I knew that was recommended for TrainerRoad, but you're also running it like that in Zwift now?
Yes. Works fine in Zwift. Stages fixed this several updates ago. It's a minor change but makes the setup a bit easier.

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Don't disagree here. Seems that some people are perturbed by the constantly fluctuating power numbers, which are given raw without smoothing, but I'm used to this from years riding with unsmoothed numbers from my SRM power meters.
Yeah, you get a nice, steady... and completely fake straight line while using other trainers in erg mode. I have no idea why seeing the actual fluctuations you're producing bothers people, it's just reality. The SB20 will nail average power over an interval, which is what actually matters.
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Re: Major flaw in slope mode on my Stages SB20 – does your SB20 do the same? [hiro11] [ In reply to ]
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hiro11 wrote:
duncan wrote:

I have never had this total losing resistance, but then I also have mine on a power strip that I turn off straight after finishing the session. I have a remote-controlled fan (Vacmaster Cardio54) on the same strip, so pretty convenient.
OK, so in effect you're already doing what I recommend. I guess I don't understand the nature of your problem.

This ride file of an easy 1 hour session shows an example of the problem. Throughout the whole session I remained in the same virtual gear. However, because there is a gradual and progressive drift of that virtual gear, I have to increase cadence in order to maintain the same power output. For instance, laps 3 and 9 are both at the same average power output of 190 W, but to hold this, by lap 9 I had to use an average cadence of 98 rpm, as compared to 91 rpm for lap 3. Even within the laps you can see an upwards slope in the green cadence curve, in order to maintain a constant power output.


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